Idea's on fixing a cleat

[The Brockerts]

This cleat is loose and I need to fix it. Several ideas come to mind and I'm looking for advice from others that have completed this task, pro and con's


1- move it a few inches either way, drill new holes and remount, fiberglass in the holes left behind
2- remove, clean hole of bad material, fill with a mixture of fiberglass cloth and fiberglass, remount
3- remove, clean hole of bad material, fill with West System 610 and a little fiberglass material, remount

Joe

 

[Comodave]

If I understand what you are saying correctly is that the cleat is screwed to the deck instead of being through bolted. If that is the case then I would move the cleat to an area that it can be through bolted instead of being screwed on. Being screwed on means that under load it can pull out. Then someone can be hurt with a flying cleat. Try to find a place that has fair lead and where you can install a backing plate and make the cleat through bolted instead of being screwed. I like 1/4” aluminum and butter it with thickened epoxy in between the plate and deck bottom.

 

[Mac2]

Can you get to the backside? That will determine the approach to fixing.

 

[TJM]

Comodave is spot on. All cleats should be thru bolted with a larger backing plate.

 

[Comodave]

Can you get to the backside? That will determine the approach to fixing.

It looks like it is mounted on the edge of the deck so probably no access. That is probably why it is screwed and not through bolted instead of. It is good for fair lead but really bad for strength.

 

[tiltrider1]

Screwed in cleats make me nervous unless it’s only job is for fenders. I can think of a half dozen ways to fix this but they all depend on what I find and what the cleats maximum load requirement is.

 

[Frosty]

As others are saying, is there more detail about why you aren't just re-mounting it with new/tight machine screws and nuts? Is there no access to the underside? Or what is the situation?

 

[Comodave]

Screwed in cleats make me nervous unless it’s only job is for fenders. I can think of a half dozen ways to fix this but they all depend on what I find and what the cleats maximum load requirement is.

Agree. On my dock at home I have some cleats that are lagged into the dock. I made labels that say “Fenders only”. The other cleats are through bolted with large backing plates.

 

[Mac2]

It looks like it is mounted on the edge of the deck so probably no access. That is probably why it is screwed and not through bolted instead of. It is good for fair lead but really bad for strength.

He might not be able to get tools on the backside, but he might be able to get duct tape back there. Drill the holes bigger. Duct tape on the back side. Push the back side of the drill (flat side) through the hole to create a pocket for thickened epoxy. Drill the original sized hole and screw or tap for bolt.

 

[Clark]

Is this on a Mainship and can you back the screw out enough to see if it is a machine screw? If yes, there may be a SS plate with tapped holes glassed into the deck or in the under side of the deck. The machine screws can be tightened until solid. First, you may want to reseal under the cleat.

 

[Comodave]

Is this on a Mainship and can you back the screw out enough to see if it is a machine screw? If yes, there may be a SS plate with tapped holes glassed into the deck or in the under side of the deck. The machine screws can be tightened until solid. First, you may want to reseal under the cleat.

His profile says it is a Californian/Carver. No idea if they built a backing plate in ir not. It would be very nice if they did. But if has been that loose for a long time seawater has probably been in there and causing rust. Even stainless steel will rust if there isn’t enough oxygen l

 

[The Brockerts]

The is no backing plate as I've removed one of the screws to see. To gain access to the back will require one of two ways to gain access.

1- drill a hole in the walk way next to the cleat big enough to get a plate in there all with a hand and some kind of tools. 3 inch would probably do it. Then either fiberglass it back in or put a access plate in.
2- From the inside drill a hole in the back of a cabnet, and probably 2 of them and then create a jig's to reach through to the wall and gain access to the area about 18 inches horizontal, and 12 inches vertical from the back of the cabinet

I did option 2 for some brackets that the stairs needed, but the vertiical was only a few inches, not sure I can get up the 12 inches, as all of this will be working with mirrors and carmeras

Joe

 

[Comodave]

I would think about moving the cleat inboard enough to get a backing plate under the cleat. It would drop the cleat a bit but it would make the cleat much stronger. Then maybe put a large chock on the location where the cleat is currently. I put some large chocks on our last boat that might be large enough to cover where the cleat is now. I would guess that underneath where the cleat is now is a solid piece of wood so you could screw the chock into that.

 

[Lepke]

If you can't thru bolt, redrill holes with a larger bit. Fill the new holes with epoxy with a high density filler. Drill a new hole and put some epoxy down the hole before driving the screw.
Epoxy holds better to wood or fiberglass than a screw alone. The right high density filler adds adhesion to the epoxy. Later the screws will be very hard to remove.

 

[O C Diver]

Where these original or added by a previous owner?

What line do you attach to this cleat ( bow, spring, or stern)?

While I always prefer backing plates for added strength, if all the pull is either horizontal or the line goes over the gunnel and down, it may not be as critical. As others have mentioned filling the holes with micro fiber and epoxy may be adequate. If you choose to do this, making sure to have the line long enough to stretch, will be important. This cleat will be stressed if the line only travels a few feet before beginning fastened to the dock. If it's used for a spring line, the length is often long enough where the line stretches before the boat stops, greatly reducing the shock loading on the cleat.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

Where these original or added by a previous owner?

What line do you attach to this cleat ( bow, spring, or stern)?

While I always prefer backing plates for added strength, if all the pull is either horizontal or the line goes over the gunnel and down, it may not be as critical. As others have mentioned filling the holes with micro fiber and epoxy may be adequate. If you choose to do this, making sure to have the line long enough to stretch, will be important. This cleat will be stressed if the line only travels a few feet before beginning fastened to the dock. If it's used for a spring line, the length is often long enough where the line stretches before the boat stops, greatly reducing the shock loading on the cleat.

Ted

For my midship cleats that were only ever used for springs or a temp breast line, because of access, I 5200 a 24 inch, section of pressure treated lumber up under the gunnel. Then I used as large and as strong alloy stainless screw as I could.

If stressed to failure, I was willing to bet on total failure of just about everything long before the failure of the screws either in shear or backing failure. All bets were off if it were a lift versus shear.

 

[Frosty]

If I had to "screw" a cleat down (no access to the backside), I would overdrill (if cored you can hollow out a bit more under the top glass for a "keyway"), then fill the entire hole with epoxy thickened with high-density filler and a bit of colloidal silica. Chisel flush with the deck while in the green stage.

Then, drill and tap (note: I use a slightly smaller drill than I would for metal before the tap; you could fill a few mock up holes in a scrap piece of wood to try out various drills/taps until you know you have it right).

Then mount the cleat with 316 stainless machine screws (i.e. not pointy screws).

I have seen where @DDW takes this a step further and embeds G10 tubing, then taps that. I have not done that, but it sounds good - maybe even better. I have had good service from the ones I've done as I described though. (No cleats, as I can reach the back of all mine, but some items that take a relatively high load - shear + tension.)

I don't know that I would trust that cleat quite as much as a fully bolted and backed one; but I would much prefer it to one put in with pointy screws, or questionable nuts/washers that you can't see, reach, or tighten. Presumably when using cleats you'd have multiple lines to multiple cleats (this doesn't look like your one snubber cleat...).

 

[The Brockerts]

This is a starboard mid-ship spring line cleat that is used very little as we prefer to dock port side. The cleat was like this when we purchased the boat 4 years ago and was low on the fix list. That list is getting shorter and this is now in the top 10 projects.

 

[Bmarler]

with mixed material substrate like this i like to use plexus ma310 to fill the holes. then drill and tap. the guys at nordlund turned me on to this stuff as it's really tough stuff. 15 minute working time so you're not waiting around forever. i would drill oversize first and try to hog out some material under the skin so it has some extra material under the surface to strengthen it. kind of like the bent nail in the drill trick when hogging out the core to mount something.
i would hesitate to move the cleat for or aft because you don't know how far or what the reinforcement materials are. i sure would think that there was some sort of thought put into it from the factory though.

 

[kapnd]

Don’t kid yourself about that!
“Factory built” means assembled by underpaid, unskilled labor under high pressure to produce at breakneck speed.
The way the cleat sits up on a thin protrusion does not lend itself to adequate, if any backing, and is certainly not the strongest mounting point.
I’d like to see some photos and comments of the cleat removed and the conditions below it and in the screw holes.
To really rebuild it to a hurricane proof standard would be very invasive.

 

[psneeld]

Why do all boats meet hurricane proof standards?

Many boaters barely dare ripples...

Not every cleat on a boat as long as it is known needs to be hurricane proof, even storm proof.

 

[kapnd]

Mr Murphy says that the weakest cleat will be called on to carry the heaviest load!

 

[Comodave]

In a hurry you or a crew member might throw a line on your one weak cleat and there it goes. I want every cleat on my boat to be dependable.

 

[psneeld]

I guess one needs to define "weak" versus perfectly installed or adequately installed.

We all know there are quite a few things that are "adequately installed" straight from the boat manufacturers.

There are engineering calculators out there to help with backyard engineering projects that can't be done in the more traditional ways. Screws into certain woods have hundreds of pounds pullout resistance per screw and thousands in shear. On smaller vessels those numbers aren't far from the working strengths of most dock lines unless you buy the best lines too.

No not the best solution, but for someone who needs to add a cleat in a difficult to work spot, sometimes a little creativity and backyard engineering provides a much simpler solution than what it would take to "do it the TF way".

 

[O C Diver]

No not the best solution, but for someone who needs to add a cleat in a difficult to work spot, sometimes a little creativity and backyard engineering provides a much simpler solution than what it would take to "do it the TF way".

While most boat owners want to do the best they can regarding backing plates, who has checked the original equipment? My boat had two midship cleats on the pilothouse walls that couldn't be removed for painting. To this day, I have no idea how strong they are.

So before criticizing the value of the OPs solution, maybe consider how many cleats on your own boat, you know from visual verification, have backing plates.

Ted

 

[Mac2]

I was going to make a smart ass comment about just buying a steel boat to weld the cleat to, then I remembered my hawse cleat repairs. I have stainless hawse cleats. A couple years ago I noticed a gap at the bottom of both midship hawse cleats. I use 4 spring lines and 2-3 bow and stern lines. Im on an end tie exposed to all the boat wakes-about 4 years now. The back and fourth, up/down torque on the hawse cleat caused the paint and filler to detach from the base of the hawse cleat. The unused hawse cleats are perfectly fine-I initially thought it was galvanic corrosion. I mention this because it might not be a one time hurricane type force on the cleat but a repetitive type of force over time. The cleat might not rip out, but water damage, under a poorly installed cleat, could get expensive.

 

[Comodave]

We bought a 21’ Triumph center console back in 2006 to use for CG patrols. It was HDMW rotocast plastic. Awesome boat and virtually indestructible. They had videos of dropping one off a boat hauler and hitting it with a semi truck, no damage. They molded in some sort of a threaded insert where the rails and cleats were to be mounted. I saw a video of them picking the boat up by a cleat and then by the welded bow rail. I wanted to add some cleats for the towing we were going to do with the CG. The whole boat was foam filled. So I had to drill 4” holes on the inside of the hull sides, route out the foam and then put in 1/4” aluminum backing plates. It was a lot of work but I knew that I could depend on the cleats when I needed them. Not have to worry about the cleats pulling out or failing otherwise.

 

[psneeld]

Did you have the structural specifications of the rotocast decks where you installed the cleats?