How important is redundancy for a coastal cruiser?

[ksanders]

There really 3 classes of vessel based, essentially, on range.

Coastal Cruiser
Blue Water: Goes off-shore
Passage Maker: Crosses oceans

Interesting concept. What is the criteria for each?

 

[slowgoesit]

Actually, it's a "Redundancy" debate . . . but people (I blame YOU, Peter!) have turned it into a Single Vs Twin debate!

 

[Jklotz]

There really 3 classes of vessel based, essentially, on range.

Coastal Cruiser
Blue Water: Goes off-shore
Passage Maker: Crosses oceans

A Wing engine is really only relevant in a passage maker. Twins are effective if you're too impatient or too far for a tow. Coastal cruising on a single is fine, but as stated, this is a Single Vs Twin debate.

I carry a Honda 2K generator as a back-up.

We also have these redundant items:
Spare Butane Stove
stove top percolator for coffee

Oh man, I wasn't even thinking about coffee! Absolute necessity! That's the 1st fluid I check every day. Without that, nothing else works.

 

[darkside]

When we circumnavigated in 2000-2005 we were a little unusual in having an espresso machine. I understand you can go on passage without one, but I wouldn't like to try.
Now you have me thinking of backups.

 

[fgarriso]

Do you carry a spare tire when driving to the local market? If so then why? Can you swim as well as walking?

 

[SteveK]

When we circumnavigated in 2000-2005 we were a little unusual in having an espresso machine. I understand you can go on passage without one, but I wouldn't like to try.
Now you have me thinking of backups.

Oh to be 300 miles off shore and have the expresso machine fail, no brainer get a backup.

 

[Shrew]

Interesting concept. What is the criteria for each?

Effectively distance and sea state. My mainship isn't going to effectively cruise the Carribean or Med. Your Bayliner would likely be better suited to cruising Bahamas and Caribbean, however it isn't making crossings to Bermuda or the South Pacific. Neither of us are making trans-oceanic passages (i.e. Passage Maker).

 

[Don L]

In 7 years of full time cruising the US East Coat, Gulf, and the Bahamas I never experienced something breaking that completely stopped me. Yes there were things that I chose to stay at a spot to correct, but it never was a "must because can not move otherwise". Yes they happen, but if you have been taking care of stuff it is rare in my own experience and discussions with other cruisers. Mow I will say I was never one to have to have everything updated and working perfect before I would head out.

So keep the standard spares and oils (best way to prevent a breakage is having a spare) and get on with it.

BTW - I had an at sea collision that broke my mast and I cut all the topside rigging away. It still didn't stop e and we travel a couple miles after. It was a boat stoppage event, it was a mental stop for us.

 

[kthoennes]

Portage Bay wrote: I encourage all reading this to think beyond mechanical and systems failures. Two that can be truly life threatening and require immediate action are fire and serious medical problems... A cruising couple with one down due to medical problems leaves the other single handed.

Ha! Yep -- as I get older I sometimes think, I'm far more likely to experience a catastrophic failure than the boat is.

 

[Kiwi.]

Interesting responses and some very good points made. Although not life critical, I sure like the idea of having 2 heads.

If you have fresh water flush heads (something my Admiral insists on) then fresh water pump redundancy is vital. We were crossing the Tasman on an 80ft sailing yacht boat called Umatalu when the single fresh water pump gave up. We had enough bottled water for drinking purposes but the inability to flush the heads became a real (and real smelly) problem.

 

[NoRain]

You can always use a bucket of salt water to “flush”. Not ideal but will get you by in a pinch.

 

[Capt Ray]

"Coastal" is a key word in your original question.

We had 3 separate failures on our way back to FL from Canada this fall.

Failed CAT starter (under warrantee).
Hose leak on genset's seawater hose due to chafe against a vibrating generator.
Main engine's electrical box with a failed circuit breaker + relay all part of the starter circuit.
I had the spare relay, but not a spare circuit breaker on this electrical box affixed to the top of the engine.

I was honestly amazed at how quickly the "community" of vendors along the way got us up and going in short order. That has been our experience on other years too.

HOWEVER,
My prop guy in Long Island NY strongly urged me to have a spare prop aboard for our Great Loop. "It can take 2 months or more to order and deliver a new prop. A spare, even if not a "perfect match" on size and pitch, can keep you going while getting a damaged one is repaired." He cited a commercial boat that lost his props early in the [short Long Island] season, and he lost over half his revenue for the year as a result. The spare I bought is 3-blade instead of 4, has an added inch in diameter (it fit), and the pitch is a bit more. But I am currently running on the spare, and will be doing a bit of comparison cruising before it comes off. Initial test (1-hour) is it isn't as good as our main prop, but it works perfectly fine at our cruising speeds.

So, focus on the things that might take a long time to get parts for. (=everything in the Bahamas, from what I am told.)

 

[rslifkin]

HOWEVER,
My prop guy in Long Island NY strongly urged me to have a spare prop aboard for our Great Loop. "It can take 2 months or more to order and deliver a new prop. A spare, even if not a "perfect match" on size and pitch, can keep you going while getting a damaged one is repaired." He cited a commercial boat that lost his props early in the [short Long Island] season, and he lost over half his revenue for the year as a result. The spare I bought is 3-blade instead of 4, has an added inch in diameter (it fit), and the pitch is a bit more. But I am currently running on the spare, and will be doing a bit of comparison cruising before it comes off. Initial test (1-hour) is it isn't as good as our main prop, but it works perfectly fine at our cruising speeds.

The "how long will it take to get this if I need it?" question is definitely worth asking about a lot of potential spares.

In my mind, spare props are worth having, but not necessarily worth carrying. They take up a lot of space, so unless we're going somewhere really remote, the space can probably be put to better use as far as other spares, etc. I'm not equipped to swap my own props with the boat in the water, so even though I own the tools, I don't carry them on the boat.

I figure that if I damage a prop, we need outside assistance to do anything about it, either a diver or a haulout. So there's going to be a bit of a delay no matter what. At that point, if a local prop shop can't fix the damage, it's not that big a loss to have someone go to the house, grab the spare props from the garage and ship them to us.

Of course, a single engine boat only needs 1 spare prop, so that makes it easier to carry. And depending on the boat, there may be a good way to carry extra props without giving up otherwise useful space, so that would change the equation a bit.

 

[JackConnick]

When I bought our boat the props were shot, thin, bent, cracked. We negotiated a new set.
We were putting in a new mattress and low and behold there was a spare set under the bed in great shape. I don't know if the seller even new they were there. As we cruise up in Canada in remote locations that have lots of rocks, I'm glad to have them on board.

 

[Insequent]

I endorse the comment above about Vacuflush pump bellows. I had one fail at the start of the holiday period - it pumped s**t all over the bilge! A bellows failure results in the pump forcing "fluids" past the o-rings. Eventually I got it cleaned up, and had the marina been open would have had the thing ripped out and replaced within a day or so. But by the time people were back at work I had cooled off and just replaced the bellows etc. The cruise was/t interrupted because we had a second head.

As to a failed espresso unit, yes been there! It was near the end of my 5 month cruise along the Great Barrier Reef, pre-covid. I did have some instant coffee on board as an essential spare, but it seemed a very long two weeks before I got a new espresso unit. And of course I bought two, and have never needed the spare one!

 

[mvweebles]

Interesting interview with Nigel Calder - first half of article is mostly on spares and such (second half is sail-specific and some self promotion).

Interview with Nigel Calder and Jan Athenstadt of BoatHowTo.com

American Sailing's August 2023 Sailor of the Month is Randy Stafford from Ken Caryl, Colorado.

asa.com

Peter

 

[johnma]

I keep spares of normal wear items. Filters, belts, etc. spare fluids, etc. redundancy on plotters, sounders etc. We have a single engine boat with a single generator. Since we do all of our boating in the Chesapeake, Delaware and coastal NJ, DE and MD where towing and repair facilities are nearby, that works for us. If I was going further offshore I would want some sort of “get home drive”

 

[kierasdady]

How much redundancy do you think is necessary for a coastal cruiser? Chart plotters seem pretty easy. Get an Ipad. But twins, wing engine, isolated fuel tank, dual water pumps, backup generator, etc. If you are in the ICW, you can call a tow service. But what about wintering in the Bahamas, for instance? Some of those waters seem a bit isolated. Beyond a well maintained boat, which is a prerequisite IMHO, what systems do you think need redundancy?

Can't speak for everyone, but for me, redundancy has saved me many, many times. I've had a main chart plotter decide to die (the only time) in the thickest fog ever. And my Notebook GPS/Nav saved me. I've had engine incidents where having twins saved us from being adrift in the Pacific, blowing toward Mexico. Have hd boat (I captain) that despite many batteries, had freak situations where ALL got discharged. I always carry my own backup nav.,some tools, and small Honda geni. Saved again. I'm a Huge advocate for redundancy. Even coastal cruising. Things can get nasty, very rough, and dangerous, very quickly and that is always when something will decide to fail. Have backups for your backups is my theory. Hasn't failed me yet.

 

[Capt Pappy]

I am a proponent of keeping it simple. One mechanical main engine ( Isuzu 4cyl), one composting head, all systems are 12v, we keep appropriate spares on board: FW pump, RW pump, Engine water pump, injector, glow plug, fuses, wire and connectors, filters, all fluids, propellor, emergency tiller, etc. To date the only issue we have had to take care of is a raw water impeller that burned up due to sea grass intake (installed a grate on the last haul out). I do take maintenance very seriously and never defer anything.

That sail sure seems appealing

 

[Capt Pappy]

The single screw v twin certainly carries a lot of consideration from what I lately read on here. On these smaller vessels — the wife seems to think we need to keep her under 40’ — outboard engine access on twins looks like a real concern, especially for us not so flexible folks

But I never forget possibly the most frightening day in the Gulf of Mexico — 50 or so miles out and the sky turned black. 28’ CC with thank god on this day, twin outboards. This storm proved trying with immense gusts, torrential rain reducing visibility to about 10’ and frequent lightning. And wouldn’t you know we lose one one engine right when the storm hit.

Sent my buddy and his wife into the center console while my cousin and I tried to avoid the oil rigs and keep us safe during the next 2 hrs or so — then limped in on one engine once the storm passed

The worst part just might be how cold it became and how stupid my cousin and I were to head out with nothing but short swim trunks — we were so cold it was all we could do to keep from shattering our teeth due to uncontrollable shivering.

Many lessons learned…

 

[DDW]

There is a big difference in coastal, between coasts. On the east coast of the US, port are close together, Fedex and UPS and cellular phone service is ubiquitous, boat lifts are never far away, towing services abound. On the US/Canadian west coast, none of these are true. As an example, while cruising the east coast preparing to depart for the Bahamas, my autopilot and chartplotter suddenly quit. I Fedex'd them off to Raymarine service overnight but they were backed up for weeks. 1/2 hour on eBay and the phone and I had used replacements inbound for the next port, the next day. On the west coast, leaving Wrangel AK in dense fog, the radar quit. After a full day of investigation it was determined that we would need to carry on for the rest of the trip without radar. Nearest dealer 500 miles away, Fedex "overnight" takes 10 days there, if they deliver at all. I have several more examples of this difference. Money can make a difference (couriers and floatplanes, etc) but be prepared to go through a lot of it.

So grouping "coastal" as a single category is not, in my experience, accurate.

 

[O C Diver]

There is a big difference in coastal, between coasts. On the east coast of the US, port are close together, Fedex and UPS and cellular phone service is ubiquitous, boat lifts are never far away, towing services abound. On the US/Canadian west coast, none of these are true. As an example, while cruising the east coast preparing to depart for the Bahamas, my autopilot and chartplotter suddenly quit. I Fedex'd them off to Raymarine service overnight but they were backed up for weeks. 1/2 hour on eBay and the phone and I had used replacements inbound for the next port, the next day. On the west coast, leaving Wrangel AK in dense fog, the radar quit. After a full day of investigation it was determined that we would need to carry on for the rest of the trip without radar. Nearest dealer 500 miles away, Fedex "overnight" takes 10 days there, if they deliver at all. I have several more examples of this difference. Money can make a difference (couriers and floatplanes, etc) but be prepared to go through a lot of it.

So grouping "coastal" as a single category is not, in my experience, accurate.

The term "Near Coastal" more refers to safe dockage of protected anchorages as opposed to where you can get your boat fixed. As an example, if a stretch of the coast has two harbors 80 miles apart, you would be 40 miles at your greatest exposure.

Near coastal can also refer to how long it takes to get a tow. Thankfully in this age of Starlink, with a safe anchorage or port, getting a tow may take some time, but it's not like being 2 days or 1 weeks offshore, before the tow gets to you.

Ted

 

[DDW]

Again, a little different on each coast. In BC and SEAK, lots of safe anchorages not too far, typically, though there is unlikely to be any assistance. California and Oregon coast, hundreds of miles between all weather harbors.

Starlink (or sat phones) has changed the equation a little for the more remote parts of BC and SEAK, in that you are likely to be able to establish communication (no chance with cell phone or VHF). As far as organizing a tow, that could still easily take a week. SeaTow and BoatUS aren't there, you might be able to find someone who has some spare time - the fishing fleet takes precedence for most everything. When my fuel pump when out in Petersburg - a big town in those parts - the only diesel mechanic in town could not get to it for at least 4 weeks. I fixed it myself, but it took 3 days to get the part flown in from Anchorage. On the same trip, a guy with the same problem stuck in the BC Broughtons - not that far out really - had to float plane a mechanic in from Vancouver to swap the pump, took him I think 4 or 5 days and a fair amount of cash to get going again. On the east coast, even as far north as Newfoundland help is more plentiful and closer at hand.

 

[Ithaka7]

Most people can't assess risk accurately. Most people who come here to ask for redundancy or those who answer are by definition risk averse. Many youngsters skydive with one parachute only and consider this an acceptable risk while few of us would. I keep a few things in mind:

- Usually the things that break are not the ones you have spares for. It helps to cruise locally for a few months to learn the basic spares to carry (e.g. filters, clamps, etc.), so that you do not ruin your trip but it is impossible nor desirable to plan 100% redundancy.

- Do I place an unfair burden on society by expecting to be rescued in the middle of the sea? So, I try to be responsible or move in flotillas, so that we can help each other. Safety in the numbers.

- Then I just go... start your engines!