How can I improve my Bluetooth signal?

[HeadedToTexas]

As the proud new owner of several Bluetooth devices including two Orion XS DC-DC chargers, three EcoWorthy 280Ah batteries, and a Victron SmartShunt, I am really impressed with the information I can see from my electrical system. The Xantrex SW3012 basically told me nothing except volts and amps and then only when I was crouched down by the panel with a flashlight and reading glasses.

My bliss is only slightly dampened by what I believe is interference from thick copper cables, big power supplies, and foil lined floor insulation. Bluetooth works great when right next to the device, but suffers once the engine room door is closed; the signal disappears completely when I get more than 10 feet or so away.

Is that a common experience with Bluetooth devices in engine spaces? Do Bluetooth signal boosters or range extenders work? Or should I just be happy being able to see everything when sitting at the Pilothouse helm seat?

 

[SteveK]

look at blue tooth to wifi bridge and see if one would work, or an extender blue tooth to bring the signal out of the ER.
There will be one that will do as you need.

From home via wifi I can see SOC of the house bank for instance.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

The Victron Connect app has both local and VRM. I haven’t looked into VRM, but I’m guessing that requires some level of subscription. And that excludes the detail I see with the Epoch app. Having the Bluetooth signal available anywhere aboard is plenty for me.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

VRM appears to require a Cerbo system. I’m sure they’re cool, but my old Xantrex won’t talk to it and I don’t think it’s worth the cost when Bluetooth feels so close.

 

[heysteve]

Before going the Cerbo GX/VRM route, I too found the SmartShunt Bluetooth output weak. This can be fixed by plugging in a VE.Direct to Bluetooth Smart dongle into the shunt. For me, this provided a much stronger signal and eliminated connection problems.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Very interesting. While that Victron dongle looks like a great solution for the weak signal from their SmartShunt, it won’t help boost the weak signal from the EW batteries.

 

[stevemitchell]

Is that a common experience with Bluetooth devices in engine spaces? Do Bluetooth signal boosters or range extenders work? Or should I just be happy being able to see everything when sitting at the Pilothouse helm seat?

This is very common on installs I've done, and my own boat

I've tried a bunch of different Bluetooth "boosting" solutions, and none really seem to work that well. Ultimately, as you have determined, the best way to deal with it is to have a Victron Cerbo in the engine room that would have less interference and be able to pull all of the data from those devices into it.

VRM doesn't cost anything (other than the purchase of the Cerbo) - there are no subscription fees, but that is used more for remote monitoring when away from the boat.

The Cerbo has both Ethernet and WiFi, and if you have a network on your boat, you could use your smartphone to see the data by connecting to the Cerbo, rather than by Bluetooth.

Bluetooth is a great and easy standard way to access data, but it is quite short range, and lots of things on boats, especially older ones, affect its range.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I’m beginning to understand that and it’s rather disappointing. The concept of a Bluetooth repeater makes a lot of sense and feels like something that should work.

No subscription for a Cerbo is good, but at $250 for the Cerbo and $250 for the display panel is not inexpensive. It all has to be hard wired together too, right?

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I should have read more before typing. I see you can view the Cerbo environment on a smartphone. Does the Cerbo “see” third party devices like Bluetooth enabled EcoWorthy batteries?

 

[Diep]

I see you already caught it but you don't need the display to take advantage of the Cerbo. As I understand you can also run HDMI to any screen you want and control with a USB mouse. It sounds like some generic touchscreens can also work but hit or miss and don't always work right. I don't think they can report info from battery bluetooth, only by CAN from batteries with "victron comms".

No hands on experience yet, I just have been researching and planning an install, not far behind you.

Which EW 280AH batteries do you have - the black case or orange case ones? I've been trying to figure out the difference and see the orange case may have an RJ45 port but I can't find any real documentation on what it is supposed to be able to do.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Mine are black cases with orange stickers. They have no RJ45, power switches, or controls of any type other than Bluetooth.

 

[stevemitchell]

By nature of it's design/protocol, Bluetooth is hard to "repeat" - there are some proxies you can try, but they require some programming knowledge. There are some other products on Amazon and elsewhere that have dubious claims, and many don't work.

You're correct about the Cerbo and wiring - based on the list of what you have, they would need to be connected via VE.Direct cables. They're not too expensive, and can be pretty long. You can also use a VE.Direct to USB cable and make it super long if needed.

As @Diep mentioned, you do not need the screen for the Cerbo. If it is connected to your WiFi or Ethernet network, you can access it via your phone's browser. I would not try 3rd party screens as they will likely be somewhat frustrating unless you're willing to troubleshoot.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

What would it take to get the Cerbo to talk with NMEA 2000?

 

[stevemitchell]

The primary way to interface a Cerbo to NMEA 2000 is with a VE.Can to NMEA 2000 cable. This plugs into a VE.Can port on the Cerbo, and connects to a NMEA 2000 tap somewhere on your network.

 

[folivier]

For a somewhat cheaper option a Raspberry Pi can be loaded with Venus OS and used similar to a Cerbo. A friend is doing this with a Victron inverter in his basement. I'm thinking of doing it with my motorhome. Haven't figured out how to utilize bluetooth yet so will have to have all devices hard wired.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I have read up on Raspberry PI a few times over the years and decided each time that it required a higher level of expertise than I was willing to produce. That was my assessment for this Bluetooth repeater project as well. The hardware alone began to approach the cost of the Cerbo and it didn’t take assigning much cost to the compromised reliability from my handiwork to make it not feasible. Just my 2¢.

 

[Jeff F]

Is that a common experience with Bluetooth devices in engine spaces? Do Bluetooth signal boosters or range extenders work? Or should I just be happy being able to see everything when sitting at the Pilothouse helm seat?

I have 4 BT devices, two in the middle of the boat and one at either end of the boat. The only place I can get all four at the same time is in the PH. So it seems like a common issue.

FWIW, my experience is that none of this data needs constant monitoring. If I want to carefully look at one device it's not a big inconvenience to move closer to that device with my phone to get a solid connection.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

That’s a very good point. I am still in the new equipment obsession phase with these LFP batteries and I am fresh out of the phase where I needed to obsess about the old dying AGMs. At some point it will likely seem far more mundane.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

The primary way to interface a Cerbo to NMEA 2000 is with a VE.Can to NMEA 2000 cable. This plugs into a VE.Can port on the Cerbo, and connects to a NMEA 2000 tap somewhere on your network.

I see Digital Yacht makes a VE.direct to NMEA-2000 gateway, but it costs the same $250 as the Cerbo.

 

[Jeff F]

That’s a very good point. I am still in the new equipment obsession phase with these LFP batteries and I am fresh out of the phase where I needed to obsess about the old dying AGMs. At some point it will likely seem far more mundane.

I think so. To my mind mundane is the desired end state.

I can see benefits to a wired network with a single communication point that go beyond monitoring, but haven't felt the need for that. It's hard to know where to stop sometimes.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

To my mind mundane is the desired end state.

Excellent point.

 

[Barking Sands]

I see Digital Yacht makes a VE.direct to NMEA-2000 gateway, but it costs the same $250 as the Cerbo.

When you get a Cerbo you can get VE-CAN to NMEA2k adapter to display Victron info. In addition Garmin and I believe Raymarine can use an RJ45 cable directly out of the Cerbo to a compatible chart plotter for display and control. I did that on the bench but have not yet implements it on the boat yet.

Victron Energy ASS030520200 VE.Can to NMEA2000 Cable

 

[HeadedToTexas]

To my mind mundane is the desired end state.

Excellent point.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

In addition Garmin and I believe Raymarine can use an RJ45 cable directly out of the Cerbo to a compatible chart plotter for display and control.

Very interesting. I’ll have to check, but I think the RJ45 port at the lower helm is free. Radar talks to the system through the RJ45 port at the upper helm, but gets to the lower helm via N2K. Does that mean that getting data the Cerbo to display on the Garmin MFD is as simple as an ethenet cable? Once in Garmin’s world, is it available across N2K elsewhere aboard?

 

[stevemitchell]

In addition Garmin and I believe Raymarine can use an RJ45 cable directly out of the Cerbo to a compatible chart plotter for display and control. I did that on the bench but have not yet implements it on the boat yet.

This definitely works, and I've used it many times. You can see what the interface looks like by going to your Cerbo at http://your-cerbo-ip-address/app/

It's meant to be clickable and readable on chart plotters so it's quite a bit different than the standard Victron display. You can read how this works at 14. Marine MFD integration by App

By connecting it this way to a chart plotter, it will only allow you to see it and control things from the chart plotter, not from NMEA 2000. To get Victron data onto NMEA 2000, the previous post about the VE.Can to NMEA 2000 adapter is required.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I see. So that ethernet port is essentially assess to an internal web server embedded in the Cerbo and the MFD can display that webpage somewhat like any web browser could? Very nice, but I really hope to get some of the SmartShunt data onto Garmin GMI 20 N2K displays that are mounted away from my helms.

 

[stevemitchell]

So that ethernet port is essentially assess to an internal web server embedded in the Cerbo and the MFD can display that webpage somewhat like any web browser could?

Correct. Many MFD manufacturers call it an "app" which is probably not far from the truth, but it really is only for interacting with it from the MFD or MFDs that are networked together.

To get data on the network for other devices, NMEA 2000 is the primary way to do it.

 

[Hobbit]

It might be the age of your phone as I have similar smart shunts and can read then on blue tooth thru 2-3 layers of aluminum. My phone is a one yr. old S24 Samsung. Hit and miss though when you get 30’ ft away and 4 layers.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Perhaps, but my iPhone 15 Pro is exceedingly capable in virtually every other role.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

While simply connecting to the SmartShunt and EW batteries via Bluetooth from anywhere on the boat would be fine, also seeing data on MFDs over NMEA 2000 would be that much better. Victron makes a “light” version of the Cerbo GX called the Cerbo-S GX. It appears to lack only the ports for external tank level inputs. You still need their VE-can to N2K cable, but that seems to be what I’m after. Especially attractive at half the price. Anyone running a Cerbo-S GX?