Hose barb fitting

[paulga]

The upper groove ring was scored by a hose pick. Is it better to replace it or does it still seal?

 

[ksanders]

The upper groove ring was scored by a hose pick. Is it better to replace it or does it still seal?

View attachment 144570

My opinion is to re-connect the hose or better new hose and go about your happy life

Never seen a non plastic hose barb leak with a good hose clamp

 

[paulga]

it was a real pain to disconnect the hose from the barb. wd40, heat gun and hose pick all failed. I had to use a hose pick, precision knife and a shear to make rifts along the hose. to change a new hose means I need to do the same procedures on the other end. well unless I really have to get a new hose.

My opinion is to re-connect the hose or better new hose and go about your happy life

Never seen a non plastic hose barb leak with a good hose clamp

 

[jgwinks]

The raised rings just prevent the clamp sliding off the barb taking the hose with it. The hose seals against the flat part, if that's undamaged you're good. You've already learned why that braided vinyl hose isn't the best choice. That's one of the better barbs, meant to take two clamps. That's not required on domestic water plumbing but is on a through hull.

 

[paulga]

I heard ppl talking about Pex hose. however the space around the water heater requires a flexible hose that winds its way around.

The raised rings just prevent the clamp sliding off the barb taking the hose with it. The hose seals against the flat part, if that's undamaged you're good. You've already learned why that braided vinyl hose isn't the best choice. That's one of the better barbs, meant to take two clamps.

 

[KnotYet]

I heard ppl talking about Pex hose. however the space around the water heater requires a flexible hose that winds its way around.

Pex is available in both somewhat rigid and somewhat more flexible versions.
Pex is enough of an improvement over vinyl hose that it might be worth adding
an elbow if that's what it takes for the conversion, or just use better quality hose.

 

[paulga]

is flex pex hose of better quality?

will this hose not become mechanically frozen to the barb?

Pex is available in both somewhat rigid and somewhat more flexible versions.
Pex is enough of an improvement over vinyl hose that it might be worth adding
an elbow if that's what it takes for the conversion, or just use better quality hose.

 

[KnotYet]

is flex pex hose of better quality?

will this hose not become mechanically frozen to the barb?

To the best of my knowledge, Pex uses proprietary fittings, at least it used to.
The hose you show may fit your fittings and is going to be better than vinyl, IMO.
Many quality hoses will remain pliable for life and should remain easy to remove.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Pex is rigid tubing very easy to use and resistant, use it with a flexible hose at the end to connect to your water heater. First this will allow for better resistance to vibration, second it will allow you to easily decouple your water heater in case you need to replace it.
By flexible hose I mean something like this:

L

 

[paulga]

The left end connect to hot water heater, the right end to pex hose, correct?

I get the idea as using this flex hose for making the curves that join the pex to lines or appliances.

The other ends seem to require different fittings for coupling.

The cold water supply end:



The hot water connection at water lines:



What fitting should be used respectively?

Pex is rigid tubing very easy to use and resistant, use it with a flexible hose at the end to connect to your water heater. First this will allow for better resistance to vibration, second it will allow you to easily decouple your water heater in case you need to replace it.
By flexible hose I mean something like this:

L

 

[Lou_tribal]

I would recommend you to do a search in google for pex plumbing so to learn about it, what fitting exist etc before starting anything. There are a lot of things to read and knowledge is power!

L

 

[paulga]

No idea what is the black stuff inside this reducer. It doesn't stink

There are some debris along the threads, and there is a nub that feels like historic gunk

It's still black after clearing with alcohol several times. What is that and what to do with it?

 

[Lou_tribal]

View attachment 144573

No idea what is the black stuff inside this reducer. It doesn't stink

There are some debris along the threads, and there is a nub that feels like historic gunk

It's still black after clearing with alcohol several times. What is that and what to do with it?
View attachment 144574

You may have find a new oilfield
Joke apart if I look at the black on your finger, this must jot be just on the reducer but in the whole fitting. Did you get dirty hot water at your faucets?

L

 

[paulga]

You may have find a new oilfield
Joke apart if I look at the black on your finger, this must jot be just on the reducer but in the whole fitting. Did you get dirty hot water at your faucets?

L

The hot faucets were running clean

The heater should not fit through any door. It was probably delivered inside the salon by taking a window off. I would try to clean as much the stuff out as possible, instead of considering a new heater

 

[Lou_tribal]

Maybe some anti seize or sealant on the reducer fitting?
Remove the reducer, clean it, check the heater fitting itself and you may find an explanation.


L

 

[paulga]

This what looks like 3/4 to 1/2 reducer has too much gunk inside. I'm going to home Depot to get a new one.

The hot water nozzle on the heater looks ok. I didn't get lots of the black smudge from its inside

That looks like an oring from a decade ago. I thought Teflon tape is enough for tapered thread?

Maybe some anti seize or sealant on the reducer fitting?
Remove the reducer, clean it, check the heater fitting itself and you may find an explanation.


L

 

[paulga]

When the water tanks emptied and the water pump ran dry non stop, I thought the hot water tank should also be emptied. I "confirmed" this by opening the drain valve on the heater- only a little water drained. ( I left two hot faucets open, so the vacuum in the heater should already be broken?)

However when I removed cold water hose and a valve fitting, water immediately poured out from the cold water inlet, for several minutes. I'm confused why these water did not drain completely earlier from the drain valve? Why were there still water inside the heater when the fw pump ran dry?

 

[mvweebles]

I have no idea what the black stuff is. Some sort of goo as a proxy for proper thread sealant would be my first guess, but I really don't know. Sometimes you get surprised when you poke a finger in a hole.

There are only three places for water and water pressure to accumulate in your system. Hoses which, collectively, store a couple gallons of water. Water heater. And Accumator Tank if your system has one (one of your pictures of the elbow shows what might be an accumulator tank in the background - HERE is one on Amazon). The Accumulator Tank is simply a tank that has a neoprene diaphragm bissecting it with air on one side, water on the other. It serves to buffer the pump pulses. Normally this protects the entire water system - hot and cold. But perhaps this was installed in a manner that the cold water side was still pressurized when the hot water side was emptied. Or when you turned-off the valve to the water heater, it isolated the pressure on the cold water side. I don't know, but its the only reason I can think of for your continuous run of cold water. Or there was a lot of water in the hoses.

Fitting. While the barbed-elbow in your picture sort of looks like a PEX fitting, I'd guess it's just an oddball barbed nipple given the age of your boat and apparent age of your plumbing. If the 1/2" hose fits snuggly on it (and apparently it does since you split it when removing), I'd just replace the split length of hose with a fresh piece and be done with it. If the hose is too snug, boil some water and soak the end in the hot water to soften it - should slide right on. Buy some extra hose for spares - you will need it next time you replace a hose fitting.

I gotta ask, how is the learning curve coming along? Weather there in NY? You seem to be drinking from a fire hose - gotta wonder how you're doing. You have my best wishes. It's been a lot of years, but I remember being where you are right now (1975 Uniflite 42 Aft Cabin Motoryacht was my early training ground).

Peter

 

[CharlieO.]

You should flush out your hot water heater while you have the hoses off. My guess is there is an accumulation of debris/gunk/sludge in the bottom of the water heater.

I was surprised at how much stuff was accumulated in my water heater tank. I flushed and cleaned it the best I could, got better hot water and better hot water flow.

 

[Bmarler]

Paulga,
Peter hit on something regarding the hose that I thought I’d reinforce. You obviously have a lot on your plate just learning the boats systems and how to maintain them.
The polybraid hose you took off the water heater has worked just fine for many years. Simply replace it with a new piece. While I love pex plumbing, poly hose is very serviceable and was pretty much the standard along with copper for a long time. Save the pex conversion for a later date when you have more time to spare.

 

[paulga]

Yes there are two accumulator tanks for hot and cold each. Water was outing from the cold water inlet nozzle. Probably the heater had some vacuum.

This Christmas has been warm but the next two months are the coldest with snow and freezing on the way.

Thank goodness the boat has only one engine. This allows me to walk around to track stuff. The fuel lines and water hoses system are complex enough that my learning has been very limited.

I have no idea what the black stuff is. Some sort of goo as a proxy for proper thread sealant would be my first guess, but I really don't know. Sometimes you get surprised when you poke a finger in a hole.

There are only three places for water and water pressure to accumulate in your system. Hoses which, collectively, store a couple gallons of water. Water heater. And Accumator Tank if your system has one (one of your pictures of the elbow shows what might be an accumulator tank in the background - HERE is one on Amazon). The Accumulator Tank is simply a tank that has a neoprene diaphragm bissecting it with air on one side, water on the other. It serves to buffer the pump pulses. Normally this protects the entire water system - hot and cold. But perhaps this was installed in a manner that the cold water side was still pressurized when the hot water side was emptied. Or when you turned-off the valve to the water heater, it isolated the pressure on the cold water side. I don't know, but its the only reason I can think of for your continuous run of cold water. Or there was a lot of water in the hoses.

Fitting. While the barbed-elbow in your picture sort of looks like a PEX fitting, I'd guess it's just an oddball barbed nipple given the age of your boat and apparent age of your plumbing. If the 1/2" hose fits snuggly on it (and apparently it does since you split it when removing), I'd just replace the split length of hose with a fresh piece and be done with it. If the hose is too snug, boil some water and soak the end in the hot water to soften it - should slide right on. Buy some extra hose for spares - you will need it next time you replace a hose fitting.

I gotta ask, how is the learning curve coming along? Weather there in NY? You seem to be drinking from a fire hose - gotta wonder how you're doing. You have my best wishes. It's been a lot of years, but I remember being where you are right now (1975 Uniflite 42 Aft Cabin Motoryacht was my early training ground).

Peter

 

[paulga]

What combo of tools do you use to remove the drain fitting and T fitting? Need to take them off for cleaning. I don't want to risk breaking things.

Last night I was able to remove the other pieces using a groove joint plier and wd40. I did tried to hold the next connected piece with another groove joint plier, but when I did, the working plier tend to slip. I had to concentrate all force on the working plier to break the fitting loose.

 

[KnotYet]

The pictured valve has flats that will allow a crescent or combo wrench to engage it.
I have a few that have narrow jaws and fit in tight spaces like that connection.
A small pipe wrench will easily grip the tee fitting and loosen it enough to turn.

 

[paulga]

i thought this could be done without a pipe wrench. turns out it does need one.

does there exist a 3/4 to 1/2 reducer coupling with a drain fitting? if not, I would have to put these couplings back sequentially.

when reassembling (using teflon tape), is the tightening rule like:

first tightening finger tight (until the thread seats), followed by 1.5 – 2.5 full turns with a wrench (while holding the previous tightened coupling piece)?

The pictured valve has flats that will allow a crescent or combo wrench to engage it.
I have a few that have narrow jaws and fit in tight spaces like that connection.
A small pipe wrench will easily grip the tee fitting and loosen it enough to turn.

 

[KnotYet]

i thought this could be done without a pipe wrench. turns out it does need one.

does there exist a 3/4 to 1/2 reducer coupling with a drain fitting? if not, I would have to put these couplings back sequentially.

when reassembling (using teflon tape), is the tightening rule like:

first tightening finger tight (until the thread seats), followed by 1.5 – 2.5 full turns with a wrench (while holding the previous tightened coupling piece)?

A fitting such as you describe would be rare, exotic and expensive.
What you already have, being brass, is already better than the heater they are on.
The drain valve, aka hose bib, may have some corrosion and is very cheap to replace.
The tightening sequence you describe sounds just fine.

 

[paulga]

I have seen a boat or two, the aft entrance accommodates a full size fridge. but on my boat, moving such a large appliance in or out has to be through a window. fridge need to be dropped from the forward window, water heater through salon window or the sliding door with the door removed. so it's not easy to replace a new one

You should flush out your hot water heater while you have the hoses off. My guess is there is an accumulation of debris/gunk/sludge in the bottom of the water heater.

I was surprised at how much stuff was accumulated in my water heater tank. I flushed and cleaned it the best I could, got better hot water and better hot water flow.

 

[Bmarler]

View attachment 144580

What combo of tools do you use to remove the drain fitting and T fitting? Need to take them off for cleaning. I don't want to risk breaking things.

Last night I was able to remove the other pieces using a groove joint plier and wd40. I did tried to hold the next connected piece with another groove joint plier, but when I did, the working plier tend to slip. I had to concentrate all force on the working plier to break the fitting loose.

You might be able to change out the drain valve to a quarter turn ball valve that could turn into the t while in situ. It wouldn’t have the garden hose fitting on it but you could adapt.

 

[Lou_tribal]

I have seen a boat or two, the aft entrance accommodates a full size fridge. but on my boat, moving such a large appliance in or out has to be through a window. fridge need to be dropped from the forward window, water heater through salon window or the sliding door with the door removed. so it's not easy to replace a new one

It is surprising that a water heater cannot go through your door. Usually marine water heater are on small side compared with house ones. My boat is not big but I had no problem replacing mine. Moreover this is not uncommon to have to replace it.

L

 

[paulga]

It is surprising that a water heater cannot go through your door. Usually marine water heater are on small side compared with house ones. My boat is not big but I had no problem replacing mine. Moreover this is not uncommon to have to replace it.

L

This one is residential

 

[paulga]

You might be able to change out the drain valve to a quarter turn ball valve that could turn into the t while in situ. It wouldn’t have the garden hose fitting on it but you could adapt.

Could you add a link or picture?

Is this ball valve with drain what you refer to? Not sure what is "hi-flow hose" drain