Hit a log lately?

[Mac2]

I love pods! I also love to hate pods.

Their maneuverability is amazing. If that’s what I needed to keep boating, I would definitely consider them.

 

[Mac2]

This looks like a great solution.

 

[lwarden]

I love pods! I also love to hate pods.

I watch an YouTube channel with a guy who has a repair shop in the Keys. If you think you hate pods now, wait to see what it's like to service them. To me, they are a more complicated version of a sterndrive, which I think a horrible drive solution for salt water boats which are left in the water. I'm a hard no when it comes to pods.

 

[tiltrider1]

There is no denying that pods are cool! There is no denying that cool cost lots of money. It’s easy for those who hate to spend money to hate pods.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

This chat spawned from the single vs twin engine debate. I introduced the variable of damage when considering single vs twin. Boating locations will determine the threat level, but hitting something is hitting something. Can you comment on your experiences of grounding/hitting something and weather you had damage (cost of repairs), or no damage.

I cruise in the PNW, so probably hit a log once a year. Actually, "log" covers a lot of territory. Something like a waterlogged cedar "bolt" or a big branch, etc., isn't uncommon. But a telephone size log, I don't think ever. Never any immediately noticeable damage, but at haulout there are often headscratchers when looking over the bottom condition.

Please reference twin vs single.

Single, for the extra protection. I hear that with a twin you can limp home on one engine. Much more likely to be limping with twins, so it doesn't calculate out to be a benefit.

Logs are probably #3 on the incident list causing running gear problems. Groundings and lines (crab pots or nets) are numbers one and two. Both of these are greatly mitigated by having a single with a deep keel.

Mention of LaConner and the Swinomish Channel is what made me remember my first "single engine/full keel" incident. Many have seen the recent picture of the boat high above the water in the normally submerged breakwater at the start of the Channel. On the other side is a mud flat at low tide that one must stay far away from. It's kind of a tight squeeze. Decades ago I was travelling that section at night headed towards Coronet Bay in order to be in place for the following morning's slack-to-ebb through Deception Pass. Turns out it was gill net season. In the dark, I could see a mess of bowpickers and lights on floats marking the end of their gill nets. They are not supposed to run their nets completely across a navigable channel, and maybe they weren't, but it was a maze that I couldn't figure out. The fishermen started flashing their search lights at me. Thanks, that really helps when navigating at night with a chart and handbearing compass.

I didn't have radar or depth sounder (I had a lead line). Navigation lights were about my only electronics. I saw a line of floats pass by on both sides of me, so I knew I had run over a net. The floats popped back up and nothing happened. I could hear the fishermen yelling on their radios. I didn't have a radio, but I could still hear them. I kept going on my plotted course. Big keel and single prop. See you guys later.

The other running gear issue is going aground. I was once hard aground on an outgoing tide. I hadn't swept the whole anchorage area for depth and got caught to the point that I was concerned the boat would lay over so far that it would flood. It definitely would have bent a shaft on a twin. People talk about pulling a prop while in the water and slapping on a replacement. Great. Try doing that with a bent shaft. Much more costly. For me, tide came back in an no damage. Well, the coffee pot made a mess.

Crab and shrimp lines can be a problem. It is surprising how many times a buoy doesn't mark a pot. It is going on a walkabout. And chunks of gill nets are definitely out there. Having looked at the available line cutters, I thought that my shaft had the right dimensions for one of those zincs that have an integral line cutter. The cutter looks like a saw blade, but it isn't sharpened like a saw blade, merely stamped out stainless in a sawblade shape. So I used my chainsaw file to sharpen it. I warned the diver that it had been sharpened. He manage to poke a hole in his glove. I apologized and he said no problem, he was now going to do that to the one on his boat. Do they work? He thought so. Worth a try for $20. The last time I had a line tangled on my prop, it was my own dock line. Still, I'd pay the price of a new dock line to not have to put on my wetsuit and jump into Puget Sound.

So I think logs are down the list.

 

[Mac2]

Marco Flamingo: I have also ran over a gill net. Night time on Lake Union. Occasionally they allow the native indians to gill net the Ship Canal and lake. What’s tricky is that it can be years between openings. I was unaware of this when I ran over the unlit net. I saw it at about 20 yards out, but couldn’t stop in time. Put it in neutral and coasted over the top. Single engine, protected running gear. No damage. Neighbor hit one with his twins and bent both shafts on his Tolly. He also had to buy a new net and all the fish that would have been caught with that net-apparently a record amount that year

 

[Fletcher500]

I give pod drive/joystick boats a wide berth. My slip neighbor put his 50 ft Maritimo on the rocks in Mex 2 years ago and I was not surprised to hear about it. There is a YouTube Vid of it, total loss. Insurance (us) to the rescue.

 

[dannc]

I watch an YouTube channel with a guy who has a repair shop in the Keys. If you think you hate pods now, wait to see what it's like to service them. To me, they are a more complicated version of a sterndrive, which I think a horrible drive solution for salt water boats which are left in the water. I'm a hard no when it comes to pods.

I watch the same video channel. It is interesting to see the various problems they run into and how they make repairs.

The pods repairs took 3-4 people and equipment. The hourly rate must have been unreal. What really was scary was how many ways the installation could be done incorrectly. I don't think the owner would know until there was a problem some time later. I don't think the people in the video made a mistake, they seemed to be doing a very careful and good job, but there were so many details and steps where a mistake could be made that would be a problem later.

The hole in the hull for the pod was bigger than I expected but I guess I am used to seeing the sail drives on sail boats which are for smaller engines. Either way, pods or sail drives, have a really big opening in the hull. They really need to be in a water compartment, but that is a heck of a design issue, especially for large engines.

 

[psneeld]

Entanglements in the prop and fuel issues are arguably the two most common ways to lose propulsion and often both of those situations will stop a twin, and single engine boat.

Speaking as an East Coast assistance tower of 14 years, I disagree that entanglements most of the time involve both engines.

Same with fuel issues automatically stopping both engines or at least at or near the same time.

No hard facts, just experience.... probably the same as the counter points.

I do agree there are many other boating issues that affect twins the same as singles. Fire, which may be doubled with twins, loss of propulsion, severe fuel impurities, electrical issues with a common failure point.... etc...etc...

 

[Jeff F]

Yeah, no disagreement.

I'm not suggesting it as a universal must-have, but it's interesting to see various defences against real-world risks. The boat pictured has both a cage and a cutter, which presumably offers more protection than one or the other on its own. Whether that additional protection is warranted is up to individual risk tolerance and operating environment, and speed/efficiency trade-offs. If I had a boat with a well done cage I suspect I'd keep it. That reflects my own particular aversion to entanglements.

As a follow-up, I happened to be at dinner recently with a NA who was involved in an energy audit for the Maritime fisheries fleet. One of the easy wins would be removal or refinement of the cages. He reckoned the fuel penalty on many boats was close to 20%.

I guess there's always trade-offs.

 

[Mac2]

As a follow-up, I happened to be at dinner recently with a NA who was involved in an energy audit for the Maritime fisheries fleet. One of the easy wins would be removal or refinement of the cages. He reckoned the fuel penalty on many boats was close to 20%.

I guess there's always trade-offs.

Do you think that 20% number is relative to a 7-8 knot trawler? If so, that is eye watering.

 

[rslifkin]

Do you think that 20% number is relative to a 7-8 knot trawler? If so, that is eye watering.

It wouldn't shock me. Props are pretty sensitive to disturbances in flow, especially if they're highly loaded. A few weeds on a prop is noticable. And if you look at a highly loaded prop like typical dinghy outboard then even a leaf wrapped around the skeg can destroy performance. As you throttle up and increase prop load you hit a point where distributed flow causes prop slip to increase dramatically. The effect won't be quite so drastic on most larger, slower boats, but I'd be surprised if adding or removing a cage weren't very noticable.

 

[SteveK]

Do you think that 20% number is relative to a 7-8 knot trawler? If so, that is eye watering.

I must wonder if a single with a keel for protection is also affected.

 

[Jeff F]

Do you think that 20% number is relative to a 7-8 knot trawler? If so, that is eye watering.

I pushed him on that very briefly. He made the point that many cages could be made more efficient, and that the slower boats generally had crude arrangements, which he felt could be much improved.

I talked quite a bit with a lobster fisherman in PEI with a brand new boat. He figured the best cage cost 2 knots in boat speed. His cruise was 19 knots @23 GPH with the cage. Top speed was close to 30 knots without, 27 knots with. Very impressive boat. That 2 knots in boat speed is probably close to a 20% fuel penalty by my rough calculations.

If you're burning 2 GPH at trawler speed a 20% fuel penalty or a 1/2 knots reduction in speed may not be a big deal. But it's a consideration, for sure.

 

[Adopo]

I watch an YouTube channel with a guy who has a repair shop in the Keys. If you think you hate pods now, wait to see what it's like to service them. To me, they are a more complicated version of a sterndrive, which I think a horrible drive solution for salt water boats which are left in the water. I'm a hard no when it comes to pods.

Post that channel please i really enjoy using youtube on a daily basis for information and entertainment.

 

[rslifkin]

I must wonder if a single with a keel for protection is also affected.

To some extent, yes. The width of the keel relative to the diameter of the prop, how it's faired, etc. will all impact how much impact there is. Shaft struts on twins have some effect as well, as do shafts that run at an angle (most twins, while singles are more likely to have less angle). So there are plenty of factors in play and very few setups are really as perfect or efficient as they theoretically could be.

 

[lwarden]

Post that channel please i really enjoy using youtube on a daily basis for information and entertainment.

Here is one from him where he's experimenting with a new device to remove pods. There are several on his site dealing with damaged or leaking pods.

 

[Adopo]

Here is one from him where he's experimenting with a new device to remove pods. There are several on his site dealing with damaged or leaking pods.

Wow just watched that. Been thinking about an MJM 50 with triple IPS. No Thanks!