Hi everyone! Advice needed!

[Lizard]

Thanks for allowing me to join your group. I am really looking for insight and advice. I have been sailing for nearly 60 years mainly offshore in long races up to Cat 1. My yacht was built for the two handed Melbourne to Osaka race (not that I'm going to do that!). While I am keeping the yacht, my wife wants us to also get a family orientated boat rather than an empty racing shell with no floor in it and freeze dried food. We have adult children and now grandchildren. I was looking at a Grand Banks 36 as it has a heavy displacement and second hand seems to reach a plateau price wise beyond which they don't seem to sink lower--so in 10 years I could likely sell it relatively easily given it's a brand that is recognised. I know that as displacement boats they are limited by its hull speed but that is not a major concern as really, we wouldn't be travelling that far and the rest of the family would find the open sea outside Sydney not to their liking. So that's the situation: I'd welcome any advice as to whether the GB is a good style of boat that is safe, easy enough to handle and berth, whether there are any 'known' issues with the type (all boats have them) and anything else anyone can think of! Best to ask people who have owned one!
I'm in your hands!

 

[mvweebles]

Welcome aboard. To my thinking, he GB36 is the gold standard for trawlers (though ironically, it was never marketed as a trawler - GB always called this line of boats "Cruisers"). They are a great family boat.

A clarification. The hull is a semi displacement, not displacement. Planing speed is limited by engine horsepower.

Known issues. Leaking fuel tanks and porous teak decks. Remediation of either is very expensive and is barely recognized at resale. These issues are not specific to GB but for a boat this vintage.

Good luck with your search. You'll have a blast with a trawler style boat.

Peter

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. Agree that GB isn’t a displacement boat but rather a semi displacement boat. I don’t like GB seating as it is like sitting in a church pew and doesn’t work for my back. Fuel tanks in older boats in general are an issue. Check carefully.

 

[Lizard]

Thanks! Advice much appreciated.

 

[Bmarler]

Wasn’t there a transition year where they got a little bit more beam? May not come into play in that area, but might be something to consider.
Our friends with a 36 classic spend all summer cruising theirs. It’s a nice boat that could use a bit more space in the saloon area IMO.
Ok for a couple, tight for more than two.

 

[Andy G]

Grand banks are well regarded boats. As already pointed out they are semi displacement with a solid resale value,so when buying you are subject to that premium on the way in and a benificary on the way out. Condition is paramount here, it is easy to spend a lot of money on an older boat.For instance Fuel tank replacent is in the vacinity of $40K.

One of the first things to decide is do you want an aft cabin vessel or a Europa style(no aft cabin) each type has their champions, and each type has its drawbacks.

Engine, single or twin? In the 36' range both are availible. Again, there are benifits and drawbacks for each. If you opt for a single then it is probable the boat will have a bow thruster.

Alternatives. In Sydney the Halvorsen Island Gypsy 36' is the obvious conparison. It is very similar in layout and function to the GB, usually with similar or identical engines. They do not command quite the premium that the GB's do, which can be a benifit on the way in and a downside on the way out.

Both the GB's and IG's can safely make the trip from the harbour to Pittwater. They could be considered limited coastal cruisers. Generally, the GB is considered the slightly better sea boat, however I don't think there would be much in it, having been out to sea on both style of boats.

The cabin on the GB36' is more to the forward area of the boat than the IG which means the front cabins are smaller, however they have larger aft areas. Also I find the GB's are a little narrower inside with a slightly wider walk around deck.

Lots of homework for you to do. If you would like to view the two types of boats in the 36' aft cabin configuration pop down to the RMYC in Pittwater and have a look at Sarawana (B4) our 36'aft cabin IG and two boats down is Honeyhush a 36'aft cabin GB. Visitors are welcome.

Good luck with the search.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Welcome aboard. Agree that GB isn’t a displacement boat but rather a semi displacement boat. I don’t like GB seating as it is like sitting in a church pew and doesn’t work for my back. Fuel tanks in older boats in general are an issue. Check carefully.

Trawler seats on the bridge are a problem, my back too. AND, even being 6 ft i cant see over the windscreen . Heres my solution

 

[Lizard]

Grand banks are well regarded boats. As already pointed out they are semi displacement with a solid resale value,so when buying you are subject to that premium on the way in and a benificary on the way out. Condition is paramount here, it is easy to spend a lot of money on an older boat.For instance Fuel tank replacent is in the vacinity of $40K.

One of the first things to decide is do you want an aft cabin vessel or a Europa style(no aft cabin) each type has their champions, and each type has its drawbacks.

Engine, single or twin? In the 36' range both are availible. Again, there are benifits and drawbacks for each. If you opt for a single then it is probable the boat will have a bow thruster.

Alternatives. In Sydney the Halvorsen Island Gypsy 36' is the obvious conparison. It is very similar in layout and function to the GB, usually with similar or identical engines. They do not command quite the premium that the GB's do, which can be a benifit on the way in and a downside on the way out.

Both the GB's and IG's can safely make the trip from the harbour to Pittwater. They could be considered limited coastal cruisers. Generally, the GB is considered the slightly better sea boat, however I don't think there would be much in it, having been out to sea on both style of boats.

The cabin on the GB36' is more to the forward area of the boat than the IG which means the front cabins are smaller, however they have larger aft areas. Also I find the GB's are a little narrower inside with a slightly wider walk around deck.

Lots of homework for you to do. If you would like to view the two types of boats in the 36' aft cabin configuration pop down to the RMYC in Pittwater and have a look at Sarawana (B4) our 36'aft cabin IG and two boats down is Honeyhush a 36'aft cabin GB. Visitors are welcome.

Good luck with the search.

Thanks! Useful information. I'm going to RMYC on Saturday to look at the one for sale there--Silver Banks I think it's called. It's a twin with Volvo engines. I do find it a bit of a mystery that they are configured with various engine combinations but I suppose they all work. I don't see any long trips being taken but it being used as a platform for family outings on the harbour. But one question: it strikes me that these depreciate to a floor and at around the A$200k mark it might come close to holding its nominal value over time if maintained well along the way. Would you say that's the case?
I will have a look at your boat from the marina on Saturday and thanks for letting me do so.

 

[Lizard]

Grand banks are well regarded boats. As already pointed out they are semi displacement with a solid resale value,so when buying you are subject to that premium on the way in and a benificary on the way out. Condition is paramount here, it is easy to spend a lot of money on an older boat.For instance Fuel tank replacent is in the vacinity of $40K.

One of the first things to decide is do you want an aft cabin vessel or a Europa style(no aft cabin) each type has their champions, and each type has its drawbacks.

Engine, single or twin? In the 36' range both are availible. Again, there are benifits and drawbacks for each. If you opt for a single then it is probable the boat will have a bow thruster.

Alternatives. In Sydney the Halvorsen Island Gypsy 36' is the obvious conparison. It is very similar in layout and function to the GB, usually with similar or identical engines. They do not command quite the premium that the GB's do, which can be a benifit on the way in and a downside on the way out.

Both the GB's and IG's can safely make the trip from the harbour to Pittwater. They could be considered limited coastal cruisers. Generally, the GB is considered the slightly better sea boat, however I don't think there would be much in it, having been out to sea on both style of boats.

The cabin on the GB36' is more to the forward area of the boat than the IG which means the front cabins are smaller, however they have larger aft areas. Also I find the GB's are a little narrower inside with a slightly wider walk around deck.

Lots of homework for you to do. If you would like to view the two types of boats in the 36' aft cabin configuration pop down to the RMYC in Pittwater and have a look at Sarawana (B4) our 36'aft cabin IG and two boats down is Honeyhush a 36'aft cabin GB. Visitors are welcome.

Good luck with the search.

Looking again at your very helpful post: I'm looking not for overnight accommodation (I've had enough of sleeping on a platform that goes up down and sideways) but something the extended family of now 3 generations can go out on, have lunch, and then go home. This implies a larger 'entertaining' area rather than sleeping accommodation. It's really a day boat as I know the family will find that living on a boat is not all it appears. One aspect that appeals to me is that little kids will find it difficult to fall off a trawler style boat. I'm very safety conscious and while this sort of boating is not 2023 Sydney to Hobart, you can still fall off in the harbour with the same outcome! All advice is welcomed and much appreciated!
Bruce
Imalizard

 

[Blissboat]

Grand Banks were thoughtfully designed and constructed, their build quality being among the very best in production motor cruisers. The OP, Lizard, has more than once alluded to concern about safety aboard, and in that respect too, the GB design and details satisfy. With the grip underfoot of the original teak decks, the thoughtful hand and grab rail placements, the orientation of hatches and doors, any GB exudes a feeling of solidity, security and dependability. Indeed, American Marine's marketing tagline used to be "Dependable Diesel Cruisers." Thousands of customers bought into that value proposition.

The trouble has to do with time and the elements. Unless maintained scrupulously, GBs age poorly. The three major pain points are 1) those beautiful, reassuring teak decks, 2) the steel fuel tanks immediately beneath those decks, and 3) the windows in the deckhouse. Any of those can present budget-busting remediation projects. Electrical systems can be another weakness, but at least in a GB you can find a way to access most of what you might need to see and address. (Maintaining all that beautiful brightwork is another conversation)!

Few boats are as satisfying to behold as a Grand Banks in Bristol condition, and few are as tragic as one that has been neglected. Find one whose previous owner has lavished it with tender, loving care and maintained it with an open checkbook. Then prepare to do the same. You won't get your maintenance dollars back on resale, but if you buy right on the front end, your purchase price might at least hold up, and when the time comes, the chances are excellent that someone will want to step up and take your place.

 

[Bmarler]

Thanks! Useful information. I'm going to RMYC on Saturday to look at the one for sale there--Silver Banks I think it's called. It's a twin with Volvo engines. I do find it a bit of a mystery that they are configured with various engine combinations but I suppose they all work. I don't see any long trips being taken but it being used as a platform for family outings on the harbour. But one question: it strikes me that these depreciate to a floor and at around the A$200k mark it might come close to holding its nominal value over time if maintained well along the way. Would you say that's the case?
I will have a look at your boat from the marina on Saturday and thanks for letting me do so.

Volvos would not be on my list of favorite engines. Hopefully there’s good support where you are. Parts can be eye wateringly expensive, and the cooling systems require some special sized o rings. Be sure there is adequate access to the outsides of them, and if they have turbos, ask about aftercooler maintenance.

 

[Lizard]

Volvos would not be on my list of favorite engines. Hopefully there’s good support where you are. Parts can be eye wateringly expensive, and the cooling systems require some special sized o rings. Be sure there is adequate access to the outsides of them, and if they have turbos, ask about intercooler maintenance.

Thanks!

 

[slowgoesit]

As mentioned above:

1. Decks, if teak are a problem.
2. When the decks fail, so to do the fuel tanks. Big $$$$
3. Windows, when we bought out GB 36, the windows let light and water through with equal ease.
4. Electrical, some years good, some years bad. Apparently, when ours was built, they had a special on red wire. EVERY WIRE, from the original build was the same shade of RED! The only non-red wiring had been post build.

You haven't mentioned vintage. I am assuming Fiberglass, and not wood. If wood, than other issues issues apply.

The round chines on the GB lead to a very rolly boat. We had ours in Hawaiian waters, and didn't realize it was a PROBLEM . . . It was just what it did, and we were used to it. Now I know about different hull designs, and that that there are better designs out there.

For us, the interior layout of the GB's is . . . . well, the only GB I would even consider buying now, because of the interior design would be a GB 49 Classic, but they're pretty rare, as in only about 125 built. There's one in available locally that I'd buy if we didn't have our current boat, but it need some TLC. (Sorry, that doesn't help you in Australia, but they may have some down there.

You mention day trips mostly. . . . No shade on the outside, and not a LOT of room inside in a GB 36. I would prefer something with a Bimini aft to provide shade, but in the Classic, with the trunk cabin, it's just not in the cards. You may be better off with a Europa style, as mentioned prior, since it will give you more usable space.

I would NOT want a GB 36 with twins, unless you have a skinny circus contortionist in the family. And just remember, even if the kids fit now, they will grow . . .as will you, and components will be DIFFICULT to access and maintain with a twin. Our GB 36 had been recently repowered with a Cummins 6BTA. Great engine, WAY more power than the boat needed, but it was already there. Personally, I'd shy away from Volvo's, for the reasons specified above. (Parts cost and availability). Not sure what Volvo parts availability is like in Oz, but we had a dockmate in Washington State who had been waiting for parts for over a year. His (not a GB) was a twin, and he'd been using it a a single for almost two years because he couldn't get the parts. I believe it was a manifold he needed, and he had it on order through at least two sources. And he's had to pay up front for both . . . he figured that if one was bad, he'd better order two, one for the other engine too, and hopefully the 2nd one would last until he got the two in . . . but over a YEAR?!? That's crazy. He considered repowering . . .too $$. He considered selling as is . . . he'd take a bath with a non-running engine he couldn't get parts for. His plan was to get the parts, repair, and sell immediately . . . any more parts issues would be the next guy's problem.

Best of luck in your search!

 

[Lizard]

On twin vs single engines. Not that travelling far offshore is on the cards, a twin engine set up provides some safety but on the other hand, people seem to get by with a single engine.
I suppose the other perspective is that two of everything = double the things to go wrong!

 

[BruceK]

Thanks! Useful information. I'm going to RMYC on Saturday to look at the one for sale there--Silver Banks I think it's called. It's a twin with Volvo engines. I do find it a bit of a mystery that they are configured with various engine combinations but I suppose they all work. I don't see any long trips being taken but it being used as a platform for family outings on the harbour. But one question: it strikes me that these depreciate to a floor and at around the A$200k mark it might come close to holding its nominal value over time if maintained well along the way. Would you say that's the case?
I will have a look at your boat from the marina on Saturday and thanks for letting me do so.

Good to have an experienced sailor onboard. I admire the Sydney-Hobart 2 handers, no mean feat.
You could be right about value. The GB at RMYC is, I think, Riviera built in Australia. 200hp Volvos is more than it needs, and have parts cost/availability issues. Bear in mind Andrew Moore details boats presale, sometimes quite extensively. Note the well sanded teak decks, check timber thickness and screw visibility.
My IG36, like Andy`s, was Halvorsen`s "copy" of the GB. Halvorsen were GB agents. i had a 1981 IG36 for 10 years, replacing it with a twin engine Integrity 386 in 2020, which in turn shows its IG heritage, Integrity(Jiang Hua) built IG/Halvorsen before the IG brand disappeared( to rise again in 2022). I had my concerns but the Integrity has turned out a good boat. There may be less incidence os osmosis on a GB, it`s common on IGs.
At nearly 40yrs of age, decks and tanks can be concerns if not replaced. Everything has near 40 years on it, engine hours too.
The GB may be a better sea boat than the IG,both will transit Sydney-Broken Bay in reasonable weather.

 

[Lizard]

I’m not wedded to a GB but I can see the advantages of a trawler type boat as a platform. I see there is a Halverson for sale at Cottage Point and thanks for pointing me in that direction.
40 years old-well it makes you think of course.
Imalizard is now 18 years old and of course is showing its age having covered a lot of ground including harsh conditions and despite maintenance on things that count you can’t stop sun exposure!
Tomorrow will be instructive!
Two up to Hobart in 40 knots all upwind? Well, it cured me of any Osaka delusions!

 

[Andy G]

Thanks! Useful information. I'm going to RMYC on Saturday to look at the one for sale there--Silver Banks I think it's called. It's a twin with Volvo engines. I do find it a bit of a mystery that they are configured with various engine combinations but I suppose they all work. I don't see any long trips being taken but it being used as a platform for family outings on the harbour. But one question: it strikes me that these depreciate to a floor and at around the A$200k mark it might come close to holding its nominal value over time if maintained well along the way. Would you say that's the case?
I will have a look at your boat from the marina on Saturday and thanks for letting me do so.

Sorry, just saw your post, I have been a bit busy lately. I didn't realise that Andrew Moore had an Oz built GB on his books.

As Bruce said, they are not the traditional boats out of Singapore, GB's in name only. Still worth a look as if I remember correctly they offer more interior space than the traditional GB, which may suit you.

I can't comment on the Volvo's never having had one, there are others on the forum far more experienced in that area.

It has been often said that the annual running costs amount to about 10% of the purchase price, that has been my experience over the last 25 odd years. More in the years where major work was undertaken. I am sure as an experienced yachty you will know all about that.

I am very impressed with your Hobart pedigree, a few of my mates have raced their boats on the harbour for years and they weren't up for it.

 

[TBill36]

From your description of use, I'm wondering if you should consider something other than a trawler. This isn't the forum for motor yachts and convertibles, but they would check a lot of the boxes for what you are looking for and there may be a lot more to choose from. At slow speeds they generally get the same fuel economy, and you have the option to outrun a storm or go faster if there is an urgent need. If you pick it up right, you won't take a beating at resale, and you may not have to spend $200K to get comparable or even increased capacity.

 

[ranger58sb]

The GB at RMYC is, I think, Riviera built in Australia.

Riviera built some GBs?

-Chris

 

[BruceK]

Riviera built some GBs?

-Chris

Yes, for several years in the 1980-90s. The cabin had some redesign which someone on TF(possibly Marin) criticized. 200hp Volvos were common, some Cummins 6BTs too, even the odd single.

 

[Caballero II]

Wasn’t there a transition year where they got a little bit more beam? May not come into play in that area, but might be something to consider.
Our friends with a 36 classic spend all summer cruising theirs. It’s a nice boat that could use a bit more space in the saloon area IMO.
Ok for a couple, tight for more than two.

Lizard,
Nobody answered this so, I will mention that the the transition to a slightly wider and longer hull was 1988. It's a nice boat. And I agree that the boat is just about perfect for a couple. You could overnight a couple more in the forward V-berth, and that has it's own ensuite head, but not for a long time. I mostly use the forward cabin as the "Bosun's locker". Every once in a while I take on a buddy/couple for an overnight/long journey, but I think it's the classic 2 owners/4 for dinner/6 (or more) for cocktails boat.

You've gotten good advice here. I'm a biased responder. I have a 1982 version, and have pored love into it for 14 years (some $$), but that is I think the inevitable cost of boating, and I haven't had any catastrophic problems. I have not needed to replace decks or tanks, but can see that problem potential. I "salt" the decks routinely to pickle the teak decks hoping to avoid rot, and I maintain the fuel fill pipes so that water doesn't leak into and on top of the tanks. The day may come to remove decks and replace tanks, but it hasn't yet. As for the furniture, I think it's exquisite. I can understand others may have problems with it, but it works fine for us and I'm a big guy. I really think there just isn't room in a GB 36 for other than the built-in furniture.

I also don't have a big problem with the flybridge seats. I just put a USCG Approved type-4 Jim Buoy seat cushion up there and sit on that. Works fine for us.

I strongly favor a single screw, non-turbo'd engine. I have the ubiquitous Ford Lehman 120 hp. Bullet proof and you don't really need a monkey to get into the engine room. And I don't even have a bow thruster. You just learn how to maneuver and what you cannot do. It's a point of pride.

 

[Lizard]

Tell your mates to work up to it!
In our 4 Hobarts we came 1st on PHS twice, lost the rig in Bass Strait on another occasion and last time it actually turned my hair grey although one plus was also losing 4kg in 5 days which alas was soon restored and more.
Time to call it a day! And go sedately at 7 knots on flat water! Tomorrow will be instructive I’m sure!

Sorry, just saw your post, I have been a bit busy lately. I didn't realise that Andrew Moore had an Oz built GB on his books.

As Bruce said, they are not the traditional boats out of Singapore, GB's in name only. Still worth a look as if I remember correctly they offer more interior space than the traditional GB, which may suit you.

I can't comment on the Volvo's never having had one, there are others on the forum far more experienced in that area.

It has been often said that the annual running costs amount to about 10% of the purchase price, that has been my experience over the last 25 odd years. More in the years where major work was undertaken. I am sure as an experienced yachty you will know all about that.

I am very impressed with your Hobart pedigree, a few of my mates have raced their boats on the harbour for years and they weren't up for it.

Good to have an experienced sailor onboard. I admire the Sydney-Hobart 2 handers, no mean feat.
You could be right about value. The GB at RMYC is, I think, Riviera built in Australia. 200hp Volvos is more than it needs, and have parts cost/availability issues. Bear in mind Andrew Moore details boats presale, sometimes quite extensively. Note the well sanded teak decks, check timber thickness and screw visibility.
My IG36, like Andy`s, was Halvorsen`s "copy" of the GB. Halvorsen were GB agents. i had a 1981 IG36 for 10 years, replacing it with a twin engine Integrity 386 in 2020, which in turn shows its IG heritage, Integrity(Jiang Hua) built IG/Halvorsen before the IG brand disappeared( to rise again in 2022). I had my concerns but the Integrity has turned out a good boat. There may be less incidence os osmosis on a GB, it`s common on IGs.
At nearly 40yrs of age, decks and tanks can be concerns if not replaced. Everything has near 40 years on it, engine hours too.
The GB may be a better sea boat than the IG,both will transit Sydney-Broken Bay in reasonable weather.

Went to RMYC. The GB was well presented for its age and had been decluttered so looked neat and tidy. I thought it had a lot of usable space. Had a look from the dock at your boat too (thanks!) and can see the similarities in design. I like the walk around deck. I think the real issue is whether there are other boats (not flybridge cruisers) that can give the same day boat experience. My wife seemed taken with some of the sports boats also for sale but I think less displacement means less stability.
So I’m in the family discussion mode now and thanks everyone for such helpful advice. Very much appreciated!

 

[ranger58sb]

Yes, for several years in the 1980-90s. The cabin had some redesign which someone on TF(possibly Marin) criticized. 200hp Volvos were common, some Cummins 6BTs too, even the odd single.

Interesting, never knew that... or much about Riviera at all...

Thanks. -Chris

 

[Andy G]

Yes, for several years in the 1980-90s. The cabin had some redesign which someone on TF(possibly Marin) criticized. 200hp Volvos were common, some Cummins 6BTs too, even the odd single.

Yes it was Marin. I remember a bit of back and forth about it being a GB at all.

 

[BruceK]

Interesting, never knew that... or much about Riviera at all...

Thanks. -Chris

Riviera was the creation of Bill Barry Cotter. It began as Mariner Cruisers, and became Riviera. He sold Riviera (to develop Maritimo) . After going into administration in a tough financial period it emerged as an active successful power boat builder and exporter. He created Maritimo, which operates in the same sphere as Riviera, maybe higher end, also dabbles in high speed racing boats, and even sailboat (we call them yachts) racing, 2 entries in the 2024 Sydney Hobart, one an aged classic, the other a revamped luxury Oyster he imported.
Mariner, at one point, built (or imported, I`m not sure) trawlers, 40 and 43ft I think, occasionally seen for sale.
Mariner/Riviera/Maritimo hulls are much closer to planing than displacement but operate well at hull speed. Popular for game fishing, with commodious cockpits and usually powerful engines. Also popular as family cruising boats, with good offshore capability. Build quality is good, some Mariners are approaching 50 years old. Between the brand.s, a lot of boats produced.