Guns onboard outside the 2 mile line?

[Keith]

I took a concealed carry permit class today, and at one point the instructor stated that due to international treaty, it was illegal for a boat to carry guns outside the 2 mile limit. WHAT? I mentioned that lots of boats carry guns in and out of different countries, subject to that country's laws. If it was illegal to carry outside the two mile limit, wouldn't every boater doing so be subject to arrest upon arriving in another country? Anybody else heard anything to this effect? That just doesn't sound right to me. Even it if was, wouldn't it be further out?

 

[markpierce]

In Internation Waters, I understand that a boat is subject to its nation's law.*** The information you received was bogus.

 

[RickB]

The "2 mile line" should have been a tip off that the guy was talking out his muzzle brake.

 

[Keith]

Yea, I thought as much, but wanted to see if I had missed something.

 

[Larry M]

Keith wrote:

....*at one point the instructor stated that due to international treaty, it was illegal for a boat to carry guns outside the 2 mile limit. WHAT? ......



2 mile limit?* Where did that come from?* Lets see, in the US you have a 3 mile, 12 mile and 200 mile limits, but*no 2 mile limit.*

I think the guy is confused or wrong.*

Larry/Lena
Hobo KK42
Tenacatita, Jalisco, MX

*

 

[sunchaser]

Do not take guns into Mexico, every US boater is viewed by the Mexicans as a gun runner. And a State permit to carry in the US only applies to that state. A "well designed" flare gun and cartridge can work wonders -------

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Mr. sunchaser.* If you're refering to those flare gun inserts that can fire a 45 bullet or some such, I suspect states like Mexico may "frown" on that option as well.

 

[sunchaser]

Good to see you've checked them out RT. *So you'd really fight back if your neck was on the line? Which in Mexico it is all the time.

 

[Larry M]

sunchaser wrote:

Do not take guns into Mexico, every US boater is viewed by the Mexicans as a gun runner. And a State permit to carry in the US only applies to that state. A "well designed" flare gun and cartridge can work wonders -------

I strongly disagree, not about bringing guns into Mexico but that every US boater is a gun runner.* We spent 98 to 2000 and from 2008 to present cruising the Pacific Coast of*Mexico on our boat full time.* We have been boarded 4 times in the last year alone.* Never have we been treated with any disrespect.* More could be said of when we have been boarded by US authorities.*

Larry/Lena
Hobo KK42
Tenacatita, Jalisco, MX

 

[sunchaser]

Larry

You are right, the west coast of Mexico is treating boaters pretty well with few of the problems inland. And the Baja may be safer than SoCal for boaters. The Baja marine officials clearly understand the importance of US boaters. But I maintain taking a gun into Mexico is a bad idea.

Earlier this month several ex-US service men were recently indicted for running guns and RPGs*into Mexico by land and Pacific waters. You might enjoy reading about Arellano Felix the notorius drug lord who was captured on his fishing yacht off La Paz Baja 3 years ago. In plea agreements* he stated that Baja officials, police and CG were bribed and on his payroll.

I*routinely did business in Mexico until about 8 years ago. Not fun in the latter years due to endemic kidnappings, robberies and attempted bribery of workmates

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Mr. sunchaser.* Nope, I'm a lover, not a fighter.* In all my limited travels, I've never been met with any beligerance.* Either I travel in the right places, have the right attitude or I don't go looking for trouble.* Don't know.* Maybe "somebody" is watching over me.

 

[FF]

The most fun is visiting the Carib and noticing the difference between islands based on their past rullers.

The Brits were always terrified of a revolt so in Bermuda , and the Carib islands further on guns are collected even before the doctor clears the boat (Jamaica),

On the French islands having a small weapons locker is greeted by "Bon".

"Two mile limit" , sounds like another employee of last resort with a 2 IQ.

 

[jleonard]

"I took a concealed carry permit class today"

Good for you! I just got my Ct state permit 2 weeks ago (had one in thepast but let it expire).
I did not get the permit to carry aboard, or carry on my person.
I got it so I can transport to and from without getting hassled.
To this point I have also never felt overly threatened. I may carry aboard when I do the loop in 2 years, not sure yet.

 

[Steve]

Many states, but not all have reciprocity agreements regarding concealed carry. Other handgun laws may vary from state to state.
Below is a link to a site with some good information on the subject. A bunch more can be found by googlong states handgun reciprocity.

Click here: Handgunlaw.us

WWW.handgunlaw.us

Steve W.

 

[Arctic Traveller]

sunchaser wrote:

Do not take guns into Mexico, every US boater is viewed by the Mexicans as a gun runner. And a State permit to carry in the US only applies to that state. A "well designed" flare gun and cartridge can work wonders -------

The "insert" that allows the use of a bullet or shotgun shell in a flare gun may be missed by authorities (or not) but the simple possession of as little as one round of ammunition can land you in a Mexican as prison for a LONG time.* Several years ago, 60 Minutes did a story about a guy who mistakenly crossed the Mexican border with a couple shotgun shells in the trunk of his car.* He had been in prision for 9 months, and there was no end in sight, despite his having spent thousands on lawyers.* Not worth the risk......................Arctic Traveller


-- Edited by Arctic Traveller on Friday 3rd of December 2010 11:33:37 AM

 

[Andy G]

What exotic places you guys inhabit. Up north you have man (boat?) eating bears, down south the marine version of the wild west, and in the middle an armed flotilla

About the most*lethal thing we keep on board is a large can of insect repellant. Must admitt I hve never heard of anyone down here having a gun onboard, we have pretty tight gun laws regarding use and ownership.The Brits have an even stricter view which probably explains their aversion to anyone briging guns into Bermuda.

 

[koliver]

And an Island of calm between, called BC. Well, there might be the odd bear.

 

[hollywood8118]

This reminds me of a story ( I got it directly from the party it happened to ) I heard while in New Zealand years ago after sailing across the Pacific.

A family of 4, Dad was a MD, sailed down the coast of Mexico, makes landfall in Mag Bay. Pescadero's come out and want to trade booze for lobsters... Dr thinks " what the heck.. OK!" trades 1/2 bottle of some kind of booze for 4 bugs. Fishermen come back 2 hrs. later.. at dusk... pretty drunk and* and want more booze... Dr at this point sees the error of his ways and says no deal... after 10 min. or so fishermen ( 3 ) get agitated and start chipping away on the teak toe rail with a machete... Dr gets worried... and gives wife who is standing in the companionway the look.. who passes the loaded 12g. up to the Dr.* who points said shotgun in the face of fishermen now trying to get on the boat... Mexican standoff ensues.... Dr thinks he is going to need to dispatch a couple of fishermen when all of the sudden the fishermen have a change of heart and decide to back off.. hands in the air... saying no problemo... Dr. cannot figure what changed the fisherman's minds until he turns around and sees his 8 year old son standing behind him with his fingers firmly stuck in both ears!. The Dr... still trembled and was visibly upset as he told the story... and it was a year and a half after the incident.* If I recall the Dr. pulled anchor and sailed to Mazatlan of Puerto Vallarta from Mag bay to put Distance between himself and possible issues that could of arisen
We also carried for exactly the same reason... no John Wayne wannabe... just to protect the family. My motto has always been that " I would rather be caught with a gun than be caught without", same goes with a life raft, epirb, life jackets, handheld vhf.* It is easy to believe that help is just a radio call away... but that isn't always the case.*
And before some get their panties in a knot do I have a CCW permit... yes I do.. do I carry on a regular basis while in my home town... nope .. no need. I am also not a "wear my gun on my hip because the govt. is out to take it away", or to show it is within my rights to do so make a statement kind of person.
Sorry for the long Post
HOLLYWOOD

-- Edited by hollywood8118 on Tuesday 7th of December 2010 09:44:57 AM

 

[Andy G]

I quite understand the need for protection in the wild & wooly parts of the world but am intrigued as to how many of the forum members would consider carrying guns on their boats in their normal cruising grounds.

Well 'koliver', I hope your 'odd' bears are vegetarian and don't have a taste for fibreglass. Out of interest how far south do the big bears venture?

 

[JD]

shrimp wrote:

I quite understand the need for protection in the wild & wooly parts of the world but am intrigued as to how many of the forum members would consider carrying guns on their boats in their normal cruising grounds.

Well 'koliver', I hope your 'odd' bears are vegetarian and don't have a taste for fibreglass. Out of interest how far south do the big bears venture?

I'm not answering for "koliver" by any means but several years ago here in NC there was a bit of excitement in one of the marinas when a Black Bear (which are vegetarians for the most part)*crawled out of the water up on the Duck Board and then off onto the dock.* It then proceeded to run down the dock and off into the woods near by.

Now I know Black Bears aren't considered Big Bears as are Browns and Grizzly are but we give them a wide berth.* Especially when it's a*female and her cub.

*

 

[Steve]

Shrimp asked "I quite understand the need for protection in the wild & wooly parts of the world but am intrigued as to how many of the forum members would consider carrying guns on their boats in their normal cruising grounds."

My cruising has been in the Gulf of Mexico and East Coast I*have a firearm on the boat when I am overnight cruising and keep one in my car too, for that matter. I do have a concealed carry permit, and have kept it up for the last 15 years.
Would not bring one overseas.
Steve W

-- Edited by Steve on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 03:32:22 PM

 

[Phil Fill]

Many live aboard have guns on their boat.We bought the hand guns right after 911 like many dirt people.*I think there is a difference between hand guns and rifles, but I may be wrong when going into Canada?* If there is we will have freinds/relative buy them for us.**********

So how does guns fit under Electronics/Navigation?*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 04:25:44 PM

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 04:28:18 PM

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Careful Phil/Fill if you have friends in Canada buy you a gun and you get caught without the proper documentaion you're goin' to jail.* Look under Borrowed Weapons...
http://www.consular.canada.usembassy.gov/weapons_into_canada.asp

 

[Larry M]

If you carry a weapon on a boat you should be prepared to use it.* Sir Peter Blake was killed in 2001 in Brazil when his rifle jammed during an on board robbery.* The robbers left with a 15hp outboard.

Larry/Lena
Hobo KK42
Santiago, Colima, MX

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Don't use it in Canada or you'll end up in the slammer.* Look it up.

 

[koliver]

shrimp:
We live in a civilized part of Coquitlam, one of the eastern suburbs of Vancouver, and regularly have bears around our house, looking for garbage. So it is not unusual to also see them when we go cruising. The locals are all black bears, vegetarians, and generally more afraid of us than we are of them.
You need to go north of Cape Caution to find any Grizzlies, who are not vegetarians. They call that part of the coast the "Great Bear Rain Forest". I have seen several GBs, although I haven't spent much time in their habitat, so I get the impression of sufficient numbers that your likelihood of an encounter is high.

 

[Phil Fill]

Phil Fill wrote:

*
Many live aboard have guns on their boat.We bought the hand guns right after 911 like many dirt people.*I think there is a difference between hand guns and rifles, but I may be wrong when going into Canada?* If there is we will have freinds/relative buy them for us.**********

So how does guns fit under Electronics/Navigation?*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 04:25:44 PM

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 04:28:18 PM
*

RTF thanks for the site.* I thought I said there is a difference between rifles and hand guns.* My dad and I several times went hunting and fishing in Canada and brought rifles across, but that was 20+ years ago, so I was not sure.* If we are going to borrow I will buy a $30 permit.*

When ever I cross a border and/or security I get pulled over and check.* Last time I*cross into Canada*I was detained for about an hour and coming back in another hour.* The reason is*I do not fit a profile.**So when crossing boarder or security*I am squeaky clean as you never know where they are going to check?*******
*
*

*

*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 09:36:19 PM

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 09:37:12 PM

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 09:49:45 PM

 

[Andy G]

Thanks for the bear update, my no3 son, Dom, is flying out to Canada on Monday to work for awhile, a gap year after finishing high school. Wants to work a ski season in Alberta, I will tell him to keep an eye out for a bear and send me a picture, maybee I should buy him a telescopic lens for his camera, just to be on the safe side.

 

[Marin]

koliver wrote:

The locals are all black bears, vegetarians, and generally more afraid of us than we are of them.

Black bears are not vegetarians.* Much of their diet*consists of eating*berries, roots, etc. but they actively catch salmon and will eat moose, deer, and plenty of other meat including human.* There are cases recorded in Alaska where a black bear has stalked, killed, and eaten a human.* We just recently had a case here in Washington where a black bear attacked a Seattle City Councilman outside his family's vacation home in eastern Washington.

Anyone who thinks black bears are relatively harmless vegetarians*is asking for trouble if they act on that assumption around a black bear.* Also, because of their habitat black bears come in contact with humans far more often than grizzlies/brown bears.* As a result black bears often have little fear of humans and will readily attack.* Several friends of mine have had extremely aggressive encounters with black bears over the years, some in BC and a couple in what could be considered the suburbs of the Seattle area.* We ourselves have had encouters with black bears on our*floatplane*and camping trips*that were far more potentially dangerous than all our encounters with grizzlies (with a couple of exceptions).

A ranger we met in the 1970s in McKinnley National Park in Alaska told us (after we'd had an encounter with a grizzly) that he'd recently transferred to Alaska from Yellowstone Park and he would much rather deal with grizzlies, which are generally very leery of people, than black bears, which he said in his experience at Yellowstone are genearlly not at all intimidated by people.

We treat all bears with the same respect--- any one of them, black, brown, or grizzley can turn on you in*a second and make a mess of your day.

 

[RickB]

Those bears could be terrorists in fuzzy suits ...