Go fast boat as trawler. I haven’t gone mad.

[boating rich]

Hi folks. My wife and I keep batting around the idea of dragging around less boat, but going from Marina to Marina and finding overnight accommodations on land. That is not the crazy part. Given the go fast boats from a different time have no real market, what if we bought a cigarette, Baja, or formula and repowered it to run slow with either smaller diesels of outboards. They have a narrow beam, light weight and long lines so you would think they would glide through the water without much resistance. Given you start with a 35 to 45 foot hull they have a good amount of waterline for displacement speeds. How do you think these boats would run at slower speeds? They clearly were not designed like a displacement sailboat and were designed to plane. Add to the idea, we could even look into running one of the electric motors / batteries and going quiet. I know part of the madness is that we couldn’t sell it but it would be an interesting endeavor to play with modern technology.

 

[rsn48]

A way of boating is slow gaining more popularity in the PNW and I include British Columbia in this geographic zone. The idea is to get a smaller trailerable boat that is a live aboard. I will link to one example of this and you can research or not from here.

So if you look at the propaganda from Cutwater, you will see the C - 32 C is both livable, trailerable, and can serve as an RV at non-snobby RV parks while on the move. You will need a large truck to pull this (no different than a fifth wheeler) but you will have a broader range of ocean going usability moving from one jump off point to another.

https://www.cutwaterboats.com/models/model-category/c-32-c/

So I will discuss cruising the PNW, BC and Alaska with this set up of boat/trailer. So lets say you start your first jump off point with boat off the trailer in Seattle and trailer stored wherever. you are free to explore near and far. Then move further north and take your boat off in Anacortes Washington and hit the San Juan Islands. Then trailer over to Port Angeles and take the ferry from there over to Victoria BC and do some basic boating in the area from Sidney and lower southern Gulf Islands.

Then you could trailer to Ladysmith, BC on Vancouver Island and hit higher southern Gulf Islands. Then trailer further north to Comox and visit Desolation Sound. Then go further north and hit the Broughtons.

Then further north on Vancouver Island and visit islands north of the Broughtons. Then trailer over to Powell River and visit there. Then head up into Alaska and do the same there, bouncing from one base location to another.

This style of boating saves on fuel and can cover more ground in less time.

You will have noticed the boat I am suggesting has no command station up top. You don't really need it here in cooler climates and the top is ideal for some solar panels, much more useful.

 

[Lepke]

The ride in a hull build for speed is usually worse at slow speed. The rudders are small so it doesn't turn well or hold course as well as a displacement hull.

 

[boating rich]

Thanks for describing the northwest small boat plan. I read a book about a couple cruising in a cape dory which did exactly that. You figure you can always hire someone to move the trailer and or boat to get you to the next great cruising place. I know some of the pocket cruisers fit this mode of cruising.

 

[lwarden]

I'm not sure if you've been in a go-fast like a Cigarette or Formula but the interiors tend to be cramped and cave like. Not something I would want to be sitting in when anchored up in a beautiful location. The Cutwater or Ranger tug which is trailerable would be a better fit but cost on those is very high. There are fast trawlers like the Swift trawler which would could be interesting if not trailering. Some of the Saberliners and Albin Tournament editions can get up and go and have very nice living accommodations for their size. Also, look at Riviera in the mid-30's, these can be run slow or fast depending on needs and have quite livable interiors and prices are reasonable.


Edit: didn't see the OP has a Sabre already so I'm sure you are familiar with the Saberliners....

 

[Steve1.0]

Your Sabre 34 is a sweet boat. If you looking for a trailerable day cruiser, Sabre's sister company Back Cove builds a 34 w/outboards



https://www.backcoveyachts.com/first-back-cove-with-outboards/


Nice boats. I've delivered many of them for a local dealer.



Nice turn of speed, and good at going slow as well. If you have the bank, add a seakeeper and ooh baby!

 

[Bacchus]

I guess it would depend a lot on what kind of waters you intended to cruise and for how long.
Just my opinion but go fast boats seem to be used for over night/ wkends in nice Wx vs spending weeks or months aboard and not handy in poor Wx.
As others have said many smaller pocket cruisers to choose from that seem better suited.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Speed boats have max beam and weight aft resulting in large transoms. To drag these large transoms that are deep in the water at low speeds are huge amounts of drag.

Many boats of the 50’s had transoms but they were small because of the hull bottom rising in the aft 1/3 of the boat. And also the boats frequently had curved sides w narrowing beams aft. So transoms were much smaller on two dimensions. Transoms were much smaller below the WL permitting boats to be run relatively efficiently with considerably less power. Boats about 35’ long frequently or typically ran about 8 to 12 knots w gas flathead engines of less than 100hp.

So these boats looked basically like faster boats today but if you view them w a critical eye you’ll notice their sterns are narrower aft (than amidships) and the a cross-section amidships would be deeper in the water. Somewhat like a FD hull or more typically a SD hull. That’s exactly what these Cruisers of the 50’s and thereabouts were .. SD boats.

Nobody built faster boats because there were no engines light enough and powerful enough to be suitable for a planning boat. This applies to gas engines but even more so diesels. They were even too heavy for most SD boats.

 

[Comodave]

We have a Formula 41PC. While it isn’t a “go fast” Cigarette style boat it is faster than most any trawler. With fuel prices like they are we usually run it about 10MPH which is what we ran our trawler at. We run the boat up on plane at the beginning of the day to get the engines warmed up and then slow down to conserve fuel. Good thing is if we need the speed we can get it, but at a fuel cost. The boat handles just fine at slow speeds. Our big problem is that with twin 6CTAs with both engines in gear at idle we are going pretty fast, almost too fast for wakeless speed. Sometimes I have to bump one in and out of gear to slow down. Our fuel economy, not exactly sure yet since we haven’t had the boat long enough, isn’t horribly worse than our last trawler, unless we go fast.

 

[rslifkin]

Speed boats have max beam and weight aft resulting in large transoms. To drag these large transoms that are deep in the water at low speeds are huge amounts of drag.

Many boats of the 50’s had transoms but they were small because of the hull bottom rising in the aft 1/3 of the boat. And also the boats frequently had curved sides w narrowing beams aft. So transoms were much smaller on two dimensions. Transoms were much smaller below the WL permitting boats to be run relatively efficiently with considerably less power. Boats about 35’ long frequently or typically ran about 8 to 12 knots w gas flathead engines of less than 100hp.

So these boats looked basically like faster boats today but if you view them w a critical eye you’ll notice their sterns are narrower aft (than amidships) and the a cross-section amidships would be deeper in the water. Somewhat like a FD hull or more typically a SD hull. That’s exactly what these Cruisers of the 50’s and thereabouts were .. SD boats.

Nobody built faster boats because there were no engines light enough and powerful enough to be suitable for a planning boat. This applies to gas engines but even more so diesels. They were even too heavy for most SD boats.

At the same time, the go-fast boats are typically lighter weight than a similar sized slower boat. So that at least partly offsets the less optimized (for slow speed) hull shape.

 

[sjisailor]

+1 to rsn48 and it all depends on what you mean by "fast" and where you are boating.

In the PNW there are so many logs that one shouldn't expect (IMO) to average above 15 knots in a full day, regardless of vessel's nominal top speed, and it is not uncommon at all to slow down to 6-8 knots for long periods. Which is plenty fast given diesel prices and the close distances.

FWIW our current boat tops out at 26 knots but we average 14 knots on long journeys when there are few logs out; more like 9-10 knot average when it's been raining a lot, large tides, etc., paying close attention! (FWIW the one log that ever did damage -- prop -- was a deadhead in the Swinomish Channel, and we were only doing 5 knots.)

 

[rsn48]

We have a Formula 41PC. While it isn’t a “go fast” Cigarette style boat it is faster than most any trawler. With fuel prices like they are we usually run it about 10MPH which is what we ran our trawler at. We run the boat up on plane at the beginning of the day to get the engines warmed up and then slow down to conserve fuel. Good thing is if we need the speed we can get it, but at a fuel cost. The boat handles just fine at slow speeds.

My boat is a gasser with a new Merc 350 I/O stern drive. My boat gets blue tooth feeds from the engine to my Garmin MFD which includes fuel burn rate per gallon. My top speed is 28 MPH (not knots). When I was out for my sea trial after refit, the guy (retailer) who did the engine refit with new stern drive was with me. When I hit 22 MPH he point out this was my most efficient point of cruising. I think at that point I was hitting 2.2 miles per gallon, faster it was lower and slower and it was lower.

The greatest fuel burn is getting up on plane, after that any additional speed requires less energy. So my boat at 12 knots would not be at its most efficient point. I guess this is my gentle way to ask if 12 knots is your most efficient point.

Because my boat has an I/O it wanders at displacement speeds and one suggestion I have read about but not tried is to lower my trim tabs all the way down to provide some resistance on side to side motion.

I notice I said "head over to Powell River" but I meant to say "head over to Prince Rupert" in my first post here.

 

[Comodave]

We are still learning our Formula. Unfortunately it doesn’t have fuel flow meters. But 10MPH is looking about what we expected. Also some of it is just the trip. Even if we could go on plane and get marginally better fuel economy I am not sure that is what we want to do. Besides our lab likes going slow…

 

[rslifkin]

With heavier boats, running on plane isn't ever more efficient like it can be with small, light boats. My boat is probably a little heavier than Comodave's and it's gas powered. Slow cruise is 6.5-7 kts at about 5 gal/hr. Faster than that and fuel burn (and wake) increase significantly. Typical planing cruise for us is 17 kts at about 30 gal/hr.

I'd expect best slow cruise on Comodave's boat to be around 7 kts, maybe a hair more (I think he has a little longer waterline than my boat). 10 mph is about 8.7 kts. I wouldn't be surprised if the fuel burn per mile at that speed is close to double the burn at 7 kts.

 

[boating rich]

That makes sense about modem go fast boats and the old ones you see at Lake Tahoe classic shows. They were more like launches .

Side note on the Sabre 34’s they are a great. We have one of the last ones made with yanmar 320’s. Anything over displacement speeds results in 1 nm per gal. Whether we cruise at 14 or 22 we get the same gas mileage. We normally end up averaging 14 knots for our longer trips in the ICW for the similar reasons as the pnw..trying not to run into something or aground in the low spots.

 

[Nomad Willy]

+1 to rsn48 and it all depends on what you mean by "fast" and where you are boating.

In the PNW there are so many logs that one shouldn't expect (IMO) to average above 15 knots in a full day, regardless of vessel's nominal top speed, and it is not uncommon at all to slow down to 6-8 knots for long periods. Which is plenty fast given diesel prices and the close distances.

FWIW our current boat tops out at 26 knots but we average 14 knots on long journeys when there are few logs out; more like 9-10 knot average when it's been raining a lot, large tides, etc., paying close attention! (FWIW the one log that ever did damage -- prop -- was a deadhead in the Swinomish Channel, and we were only doing 5 knots.)

sjisailor,
Sounds a bit cautious … are you a “Cappy”?

I thought were going to sink after hitting a log about 8” dia and 12’ long. Went BOOM really loud. Saw the log aft after it passed astern. But I never found any damage whatsoever. Many times over I should’ve been killed. But here I am in my 80’s. Your approach is better … wiser.

But “PS in my trawler time I traveled from 6.15 to 8.5 knots 99% on the time.”

 

[Simi 60]

It'll be a go fast boat to a go slow boat

It'll never be a trawler

 

[Art]

We love our 34' Tolly tri cabin, twin screw gasser, full plane hull.

- One engine running at 4.5 to 5 knots on gps at slack tide = about 3 nmpg [seldom used]

- Twins at 6.5 to 7 knots [7.58 kn is calced HS] = about 2 nmpg [often used]

- On full plane at 16 to 17 knots = 1 +/- nmpg [occasionally used]

- WOT at 22 to 23 knots = OMG (maybe 1/2) nmpg [virtually never used]

That said - Our Tolly and Crestliner tow behind runabout are currently for sale [see: Tollycraft forum thread]; due to a recent personal energy downturn, as well as my time consuming quickly developing business expansion. Eventually, I plan to locate another boat that we'll keep near by for day jaunts throughout SF Bay. The next boat will need to be relatively economical [getting at least 1 nmpg] to cruise at 30 knots while having basic comforts such as a head, compact galley and a place for two to sleep. Unlikely it will have a flying bridge... which I so much enjoy piloting from!

Maybe I'm asking too much!!

 

[Comodave]

It'll be a go fast boat to a go slow boat

It'll never be a trawler

That is ok, a boat doesn’t have to be a trawler to be great.

 

[markpierce]

Going slow is a joy.

 

[Simi 60]

That is ok, a boat doesn’t have to be a trawler to be great.

True,
But I'm not calling our trawler a cigarette or a formula

 

[Comodave]

I didn’t call mine a trawler either.

 

[alormaria]

It's more fun to go fast in a slow boat than slow in a fast boat.

 

[Barking Sands]

When I was looking with a broker for my first diesel powered boat he took me to see a vintage 38 foot Magnum Marine V Hull that was completely redone with twin Yanmar 430HP diesels. It had a ton of work done on it. He was originally asking around 50K when we first looked. I was scared off by the massive Yanmars coupled to V drives. It looked like a NIGHTMARE to work on. And I was really looking for a Trawler. The very rich owner who used it strictly for spearfishing had already left Florida for California. He was about to be evicted from his fancy, exclusive neighborhood slip because he had already sold his house. He dropped the price in half and the broker called me. Broker said he would have taken just about any real offer to get rid of it. I went and gave it another much more thorough look. I tried like HELL to convince myself I could use the boat the way the OP describes. Bahamas crossings would be very quick as would trips to the Dry Tortugas..lol. I think the boat was said to go mid 40s and easily cruise in the upper 30s. IN the end I decided it was way too much boat for me. If I had trouble with either of those Yanmars it would be cost prohibitive to get out of that mess. And I had the feeling the boat was refitted well...but not taken care of a day after that.

But I often think of having a boat to use in this way. I think it could be done. I think it just takes a shift in perspective. It definitely has a certain appeal to it.

 

[rsn48]

It's more fun to go fast in a slow boat than slow in a fast boat.

For me, this statement is really true. Its not so much the speed as the time. I like to be underway for two hours or so, then be where I'm going. Where I moor Desolation is close, in two hours I can leave Comox and be in the northern end of Desolation at the top of West Redonda Island, then drop anchor and have a G&T. I can leave at one in the afternoon from the Comox marina and be there before the trawler and sailboaters, who also left Comox but at eight in the morning, arrive.

So in two hours at 20 knots I can travel 46 miles. Travel from Comox to Squirrel's Cove is roughly an hour and a half in time for me. Or I could leave at roughly 11:30 in the morning, stop off at Lund, have lunch and be at anchorage by roughly 2:30 PM.

 

[Art]

IMO - A "Trawler" is a working fishing boat that trawls for catching sea food!

I have recently seen combined words: "Pleasure Trawler"... which is kinda/sorta OK - I guess!! LOL That is if the boat's hull is FD or SD and it at least a bit looks like a real "trawler"... ??

However, I consider non working boats used for fun and living aboard to be Pleasure Boats. Not Trawlers! Just my preference!!

 

[HTurner]

Going slow is a joy.

I agree. Traveling is the fun part for me.