Global cruiser concept - 25m stabilised monohull

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yes i come to the same conclusion, i have a overqualified sailboat in aluminium with deckshouse, nice but like a submarine. i follwed the fpb and nordhavn since the beginning but now we focus on a selene 59, nh 57 or similar boats for a yearlong travelling...although when i visited the fpb 64 i was impressed by the aluminium which is my prefered material, but it is too expensive giving the volume and berthing is costly with 64 ft. no way to live on for years...
 
domino 20 m cat is a fine example of your ideas, but only 2 or three such cats are build.....
 
yes, but engine room on that cat..... not what I call old man suitable.. full walk around with headroom is a must


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Here is a picture of Dominos portside engine room. It's a bit tight but serviceable. Definitely not the spaciousness of a Nordhavn for example - somewhere I have a picture of a clothesline with laundry drying in the engine room of a Nordhavn 57.

Domino is an incredibly thought provoking boat. Obviously the work product of an extremely knowledgeable first owner and an extremely capable designer (Malcolm Tennet). The boat rivals FPB in use case and is likely more suitable for tropical climate living. But suffers a similar drawback - it shines while underway. Marina space is a premium price, and the accomodations are small for its size (Domino is a single head boat). That said, for anyone with a xruising/trawler interest, one of the most inspiring boats on the planet.

BTW - the Nordhavn 57 I mention above was delivered from Dana Point CA to Ft Lauderdale FL, 4500 nms. Including an expedited transit through the Panama Canal, dock-to-dock transit was 25-days. She averaged just over 9-kts and burned just over 3000 gals diesel for an average of approx 6-gph, or 1.5 nm/gal. Averaged around 210 miles per day. Run up the Caribbean was very bumpy (F7+) for three days straight. There were no mechanical issues during the run. That said, the N57 is an anomaly in the nordhavn fleet - fast and surprisingly fuel efficient giving it solid range.

Peter
 

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and she was for sale 2 years because the market isnt there.....so many sailboat and catamarans available and people who buy and can afford big powerboats often have not enough time or desire to spent it on an ocean that leaves a small group of sailors.....and we have nordhavn who covers 70 pct of these and Selene and Krogen plus some oneoff builds the rest. if people spent 2 or 3 mio usd for a new built they expect some living quarters and not only a functional power boat.......and as long as marinas charge only the lenght and not the area of boats long and sleek is too expensive.
 
and she was for sale 2 years because the market isnt there.....so many sailboat and catamarans available and people who buy and can afford big powerboats often have not enough time or desire to spent it on an ocean that leaves a small group of sailors.....and we have nordhavn who covers 70 pct of these and Selene and Krogen plus some oneoff builds the rest. if people spent 2 or 3 mio usd for a new built they expect some living quarters and not only a functional power boat.......and as long as marinas charge only the lenght and not the area of boats long and sleek is too expensive.

If you're talking about Domino being slow to sell, she was but in my opinion for reasons slightly different. She was for sale in Mexico which automatically reduces the interest. Few are willing to travel that far just to view a boat. Second she has only one head which is unusual for a 60-foot boat. Powercats - especially distance cruising versions - were not well known but are slowly gaining traction in the market. Finally, Domino last sold 5+ years ago when rhe normal buyers market existed.

Highly specific boats will always have a small audience. But their admirers are dedicated and will wait for the right example to come to market. It could take a couple years for the right match to be made but I suspect most FPB and Tennent boats are sold in off-market transactions which makes it a very difficult market to evaluate using traditional sales data.

I hope the OP achieved his dream. But I have to observe that brave new boat designs have a very difficult track record.

Peter
 
While I understand your point, I agree with @Ertyqway that the FPB is the gold standard for ocean crossing powerboats. Yes, they are a tiny fraction of the market compared to Nordhavn. But you might be surprised to learn a large percentage of transocean treks by Nordhavns have additional fuel in a bladder. Using the yardstick TwistedTree laid out, the Nordhavn is capable but not optimized. Dashew optimized the FPB for transocean passages to comfortably compete with cruising sailing yachts. The speed and distances FPBs have covered are remarkable to say the least. The relative comfort in >Force 7 conditions cannot be ignored.

Money aside, if I wanted a boat capable of circumnavigating at pace, no question an FPB would be my top choice. If my circumnavigation were a typical multi-year affair with stops along the way (some lengthy while I return home), a Nordhavn (or similar) would be my choice.

Returning to the OP, the FPB is not only fast and incredibly long range, but it's very fine bow allows comfortable running in very difficult conditions - it pierces waves vs rides over them (Santa Cruz yacht designer Bill Lee's "Merlin" was infamous for speed and wet ride - Lee coined the term "fast is fun"). How would a multi-hull compare? What problem is being solved?

Peter
The FPBs are also VERY tender. WIthout the stabilizers being at sea would be very uncomfortable. I helped SD relocate and anchor Cochese several years ago. At idle speed while positioning to drop the anchor, he made a 90 deg turn. It threw everything on the galley counter onto the floor. The OP's outriggers will help with that, but it's just a reminder that you are always trading off something.

And other than the Nordhavn round the world in their N40, and races, I seriously doubt any circumnavigation will be less than a year or two, and again result in only a very small % of underway time actually making long open water passages where you can't pick your weather. Just consider the Hamilton's on Dirona. They went further and longer than most anyone, and still emphasized that ocean crossing days were a tiny fraction of their time.
 
I agree that, as awesome as the FPBs are, their optimization for crossing oceans at speed does entail a lot of compromises on other things. If I was going to buy a boat to circumnavigate in, fitting my lifestyle and cruising intentions, it would probably be a Nordhavn 56MS or a sailing catamaran (Leopard or similar). But that doesn't mean the FPBs aren't incredibly impressive for what they are. I would happily own one without any regrets if the opportunity arose.
 
Other than wanting to do your own thing the FPB
great, to get everyones opinions. I am aware of Dashews designs, he really did set the bar high for high efficiency ocean cruising.

Just as an aside, the main hull of this boat will be built from a solid 8mm carbon fibre female hull ocean racing yacht mould, modified to suit this application. Picture attached. External ply frames will be cutoff, internal structural and coring added (mostly for insulation) and the external shell faired
It seems kinda weird to base a project of this size on using a mould for a hull. It was never intended to be a boat hull just a tool.
 
Other than wanting to do your own thing the FPB

It seems kinda weird to base a project of this size on using a mould for a hull. It was never intended to be a boat hull just a tool.
The hull mould in question is 8mm solid carbon fibre, not normal for a mould and consequently, effectively a very strong and stiff hull shell. I needed a highly efficient, modern sailing style hull for the centre body. This shape, modified does the job nicely... all whilst saving around 200k USD in materials over building the hull from scratch.
 
I am a yacht designer for 30 years and have travelled many thousands of miles at sea in sailing/power catamarans and monohulls in the Tasman/Coral Sea, Bass strait, Pacific and Atlantic oceans. I understand the compromises of these types of hull forms and found them all to be lacking in varying ways.

I live in Australia and am at the stage of designing and building my own ‘retirement’ boat for world cruising/live aboard with me and my wife - I have come up with a criteria list:

  • Power, not sail – sails, masts and keels are not cheap, you still need a diesel engine, and I am getting too old for drama, and the compromises on space of a sailing boat are too much
  • Fast, efficient hull configuration capable of sustained 250 nm/day speeds and much higher sprint speeds, all whilst burning small amounts of fuel. The world is far too big for boats that go distances at 5 knots. Real world range of 4000nm plus at these speeds – the Pacific Ocean is a large place
  • Comfortable at sea and anchor without mechanical or rigged stabiliser systems. Motion of cats not great in a seaway, nor unstabilised monohulls
  • Ability to go upwind, to punch into a sea. Cats suck at this as do wide monohulls and the sea seems to be rarely flat, and often going the wrong way
  • Ability to go downwind/down seas at pace with ease and control. Big rudders and good steering moment generation. Good quartering seas ability
  • Onboard spaces suitable for a couple and friends, with a split of casual and sleeping areas in line with a modern apartment. Indoor/outdoor spaces with excellent ventilation, including forced ventilation for all cabin – deck/topside hatches useless at sea
  • Large amount of deck space for outside living and flexibility of entertaining. Vessel suitable for casual commercial use (day charter)
  • Seriously serviceable equipment with full access to all important equipment.
  • Full headroom engine room, separate workshop
  • Direct crane access for generator/main engine install/removal
  • Oil change system for main, gearbox and generator
  • Full size intake/discharge sea chests
  • Fuel day tank with polishing system, fuel transfer between all tanks
  • No inaccessible serviceable items, removable panels as needed
  • Significant solar installed and an independent in-port/get home electric propulsion system
  • Dry out ability, protected drive lines
  • A kick arse tender and anchoring system as I don’t want (or will be able to afford) to be in a marina at all
  • Built to Australian commercial vessel standards for open ocean use, Lloyds SSC structures, IMO standards for damaged/intact stability
I have come up with a stabilised monohull design to meet these requirments (like a trimaran but with very small volumes in outer hulls).


Paul
This concept is reminiscent of the Littoral Combat Support (LCS) ships being built for the US NAvy by Austal in Mobile, Alabama.
 
As far as worrying about motors that do not comply with current emission standards, Donald will soon do away with any of those pesky pollution rules.
 
Not my dream, but I will watch with interest. Please keep us updated on progress.

I can't get my head around using an existing mold as the actual hull. I obviously don't know the big picture, but that sounds like the type of decision right at the beginning of the project, that will end up dooming the whole thing from the start, in retrospect. I assume you are planning to spend a few million dollars building this thing? "Saving" a couple hundred grand in Carbon fiber sounds penny wise, and pound foolish to me. I think you should build it in Aluminum. The saved labor will more than pay for the difference in material costs.
 
first you should define what you want building or cruising , most builders are never go cruising because it take years to finish your first boat and you are loosing a lot of time. being a designer builder is nice if somebody is paying the checks and you need to work. better get something old, do a nice refit and you save a lot of money and go out....
 

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