Getting the Hell Out!

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Interesting read. I quite liked Seattle, but then I was just visiting and understand the difference to living there. I do think its one of the nicer USA cities to visit. I spent time to the north (Edmonds as a liveaboard for a time) and in Port Townsend, where I lived on and off for a year during a boat refit. I got a kick out of folks there saying 'welcome home' after getting back there from one of my regular visits back to Australia. I have fond memories of Washington and folks I met while there.

Then when I put the boat on a ship bound for Australia I drove through BC, the Yukon and Alaska before catching the 'Blue Canoe" back to Prince Rupert and continuing my road trip. Now yes it was only a short visit but some impressions are vivid and I think informative and accurate. I have to say that the Alaskan towns that get the cruise ships have been thoroughly ruined. I got really annoyed at the number of diamond/jewellery stores taking up good space in main streets of places like Skagway and Juneau. Then the ships stop coming, a lot of transient workers leave and the streets are full of shops locked for the season. Really depressing. As I had my car I could see a bit more of Juneau than the old town that is either full of cruise ship tourists or deserted, but it was still a bit disappointing. I had always wanted to do an Inside Passage cruise, preferably on one of the smaller vessels. But not anymore. The cruise ships are very much a mixed blessing for Alaska. I certainly would not want to live any place they visited.


That seems to be so true of most smaller cities the cruise ships go to we could make a lengthy list of those in the Caribbean
 
That seems to be so true of most smaller cities the cruise ships go to we could make a lengthy list of those in the Caribbean

While I had not thought about it seriously before, there's very few places that cruise ships frequent that I want to return to......none when a ships in port. The business is like a cancer consuming the local character of the port and making it resemble every other place the ship stops. Only the names on the tee shirts are different.

Ted
 
While I had not thought about it seriously before, there's very few places that cruise ships frequent that I want to return to......none when a ships in port. The business is like a cancer consuming the local character of the port and making it resemble every other place the ship stops. Only the names on the tee shirts are different.

Ted

Well, let's see....Fort Lauderdale. Miami, so guess I can't say that. Now as to smaller towns with cruise ships, I have mixed feelings. I like the fact that these ports often have amenities they otherwise wouldn't. Someone mentioned jewelry stores and I think gift shops, but I am fine with those. Shops that would otherwise not exist in these areas and we do our shopping before and after the cruise traffic. The part I dislike is having to stand in line somewhere behind the cruise traffic, but then I come back later. As to consuming the character, they do in some ways, but sometimes that character they consumed was huge unemployment, no business activity. We know in Alaska some of the seaplane tours and the scenic charter excursions we took advantage of might well not exist were it not for cruise ships. We also found that if you really wanted the "local character" you didn't have to wander far away. The cruise ship traffic is generally limited to a very small area. We love exploring the small towns visited by very few, but we also don't mind the cruise ship ports.

All economic development, which cruise ship ports are, changes the local character, but I wouldn't use the word consume. Tourism, in whatever form, transforms areas. However, we are tourists so somewhat ok with that. Mostly when I see locals benefiting then I'm happy.
 
We spent 2 weeks at a condo in Bonaire right across from the small cruise ship dock. Sat on our patio and watched people streaming out for 2 hours! Told my dear wife "no way you're getting me on one of those!" Stayed in until they were gone. Thankfully the ship only came in once a week.
 
Well, I guess I am one of the weird ones. I was born in the deep south and spent the first half of my life on the east coast. I have lived in Morocco (as a child), Florida, Virginia, Connecticut, Mississippi (Pascagoula to be exact),Hawaii, California and for the past 16 years have been in Poulsbo Washington. Of all the places I have lived Poulsbo has been THE BEST for boating. The best weather was in HI but the boating there was not my cup-o-tea. I have never liked Cities and have avoided them as much as possible my entire life.

So, Steve and Patricia, when you guys come up to Seattle to look around be sure to make it over to the Kitsap and Olympic Peninsulas to see what this side looks like. I still think you should leave yer current boat there and just buy another up here, I know of a few Presidents in the area.:D That way you can have the best of both worlds. And Yes, BEER will always get my attention.:thumb:

Marty............................
 
In the end...after moving over 40 times from college to now...I often find the forever locals to be just as bad overall.


Of course gross generalizations are often...well...just gross....
 
Well, let's see....Fort Lauderdale. Miami, so guess I can't say that. Now as to smaller towns with cruise ships, I have mixed feelings.

That's true, they are conjested, over populated, and a driving / boating nightmare without the cruise ships. :hide: Guess now I can use the cruise ships as an excuse for staying on FL SW coast. :rolleyes:

Ted
 
Born and raised in Western Washington, traveled the world a couple of times and came back here to stay. If you want to check out what it's like to live here please do and know that you will be welcomed. Start in Bellingham, work your way South and form your own opinion. If you do start up here send me a PM. Jill and I would be happy to show you around. As a jumping off place for cruising the San Juans and all points North you won't be disappointed.
 
Well, let's see....Fort Lauderdale. Miami, so guess I can't say that. Now as to smaller towns with cruise ships, I have mixed feelings. I like the fact that these ports often have amenities they otherwise wouldn't. Someone mentioned jewelry stores and I think gift shops, but I am fine with those. Shops that would otherwise not exist in these areas and we do our shopping before and after the cruise traffic. The part I dislike is having to stand in line somewhere behind the cruise traffic, but then I come back later. As to consuming the character, they do in some ways, but sometimes that character they consumed was huge unemployment, no business activity. We know in Alaska some of the seaplane tours and the scenic charter excursions we took advantage of might well not exist were it not for cruise ships. We also found that if you really wanted the "local character" you didn't have to wander far away. The cruise ship traffic is generally limited to a very small area. We love exploring the small towns visited by very few, but we also don't mind the cruise ship ports.

All economic development, which cruise ship ports are, changes the local character, but I wouldn't use the word consume. Tourism, in whatever form, transforms areas. However, we are tourists so somewhat ok with that. Mostly when I see locals benefiting then I'm happy.

Well said

and being many generations deep in Florida ( before it was a state) I am proud of the state in many ways
 
Forklift--- Here are a couple of thoughts that have nothing to do with what's good, bad or indifferent about western Washington and Seattle.

If you determine that you want to move to this area and either bring your boat or buy one here, it would be smart to get on the waiting list of the harbor or harbors you are interested in sooner rather than later. While some marinas have no waiting list for smaller slips, slips in the 40-50 foot range can have a very long waiting list. As in years. This is certainty the case in our harbor in Bellingham and I've heard it's the same in other marinas around the Sound as well.

It does cost something to get on the list (not much as I recall) and if your name comes up and you don't accept the slip for whatever reason then you drop to the end of the list.

But it's something to keep in mind as you visit the area next month if you're going to be visiting with an eye toward having or living on a boat here.

Some if not all marinas have a limit on the number of liveaboards they will accept if they accept them at all. In our harbor I believe it's a percentage of the total boats in the harbor and it's a pretty low percentage.

In our view, liveaboards are terrific because, assuming responsible people living on the boat, there is no better form of security for the other boats on the dock and the harbor as a whole. We had three or four liveaboards on our dock in years past and it was great.

As a generality, the farther north or south of the Seattle area you go, the less expensive moorage will be. (I do not know what happens moorage-cost-wise when you go west to Bremerton, Port Orchard, Poulsbo, Port Townsend, etc.)

To my knowledge, because we haven't been involved with a boat in the Seattle area for a long time now, the most expensive moorage is in marinas like the private Elliot Bay marina (Elliot Bay being the bay in front of Seattle) and on the lakes, particularly Lake Union.

We know people who once had a boat in the Elliot Bay marina and while they did allow liveaboards (this was some years ago) they have/had very strict rules about pets.

When we were deciding where to keep the 36' cabin cruiser we had just purchased in Alameda, California and were talking to various harbors in the northern Sound we found that the harbor managements were very organized with their information--- pricing, waiting lists, etc.--- but the main office staffs were not on duty on Sundays. So if you plan to visit harbors with an eye toward getting this kind of information you'll have the best success on weekdays and Saturdays.

PS--- And if you do decided to bring your boat here and don't want to drive it the long way round two of the best marine trucking companies around are located here, Associated (photo) and Dudley.
 

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Thankfully, there are several liveaboards on K dock at my marina, including one only two berths away. She's a top official with the local Boat Squadron. Hopefully, they make use of the monthly mobile pump-out service and make heavy use of the marina's toilet facilities as I don't see them regularly move toward the pumpout station.

Staff at our marina are only available weekdays.
 
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Great recommendations. Is there a reason that you couldn't share initially all of this thoughtful information?? I'm sure we all know how you feel by now about Lehman engines and the Seattle area. So please give the crappy approach a rest. At least for my benefit. BTW, we got a price from Associated for the move and permits for $17k. Not as bad as I thought. I would pull the radar arch/ aft hard top and deflector shield. I would think $5-8K worth of yard time and loading.
Thanks for the kind offers to visit and show us around everyone. We look forward to the camaraderie :).



1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's
✌️
 
EDIT

As a single data point, it cost us just shy of $4,000 to have our 36' boat trucked on I-5 from Alameda to Tacoma where we had it put in a yard for some work before launching it and running it north on its own bottom. This was in 1998. We did not have to have the flying bridge removed although the venturi panels, mast, boom and antennas all had to come off.

So $17k for a diagonal trek across the country seems pretty reasonable.

Associated told us that of the GB line, the 36 is the largest one that can be trucked in the western US without removing the flying bridge. The bridge clearances are such that any of the larger models would most likely have to have the flying bridge removed which can add fair amount of expense to have it removed and put back on. Apparently back east it can be a different story with regards to the GB36 depending on the route used as the road infrastructure is older and a lot of bridge clearances are lower
 
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Well, I guess I am one of the weird ones. I was born in the deep south and spent the first half of my life on the east coast. I have lived in Morocco (as a child), Florida, Virginia, Connecticut, Mississippi (Pascagoula to be exact)

Small world, I grew up in Pascagoula. Great area for learning boating.
 
Very true. It used to be that Californians were the most hated people up here. The common term for them was Californicators. We even had some newspaper columnists here who actively campaigned in their columns (only partially tongue in cheek) for legislation to close the borders to people from California and deport the ones who'd been here for less than ten years.

They still are looked on very disparagingly for the most part and are the butt of a lot of rather tired jokes but it's my understanding that the immigration from California has slowed to a trickle. So we don't really hear about them much anymore.

But if you think my "comments" on what's happening to this part of the state are over the top, talk to people who've spent their entire lives here. They make me sound like a welcoming committee.

I think your view of transplants is about 10 years out of date, I have not heard a single comment regarding transplants in at least that long.. and I am in a business that deals with most of the " new northwesters".

I believe the bad attitude was related to how often the locals heard how cheap it was to live here vs. where they came from.. and that is not the case anymore.. nobody moves here for how cheap it is anymore.

You better pack up and move to someplace else as with the predicted "new normal" weather the Pac Nw is predicted to grow faster than ever as more folks will accept the less severe climate.

I think violent crime here is not really that bad.. I still feel much safer riding the light rail at 10pm between the city and seatac than I did driving in L.A. at noon in my own car 20 years ago.

Yes the politics are over the top liberal on the west side of the state.. but the gun laws are still pretty conservative.. but I also think there are plenty of places this conservative thinks are way over the top conservative and just as wacky.

For the most part folks in the PNW are still more helpful, kind, and apt to wave you ahead at a 4way intersection than the majority of this great country.

If you think the place is so bad you should go off and find utopia and let us know where it is so we won't go there and ruin it for you.

On a side note I am a former Californian, I left there for the boating here
...when I got here the weather sucked but has got better with global warming and it just gets better all the time.

HOLLYWOOD
 
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Why oh why, God, am I getting into this?

I'm surprised that with all of the anality that some people bring to this forum that a simple check on statistics isn't their first recourse. The first link shows that murders in Seattle over the past decade have been both higher and lower in any given year and far from the Star Wars bar scene it's being portrayed to be. Overall, through 2013, total crime is significantly lower than a decade ago while still above the national average (Seattle being a large city and all).

Crime in Seattle, Washington (WA): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map

Here are FBI stats showing that, per 100,000 people, the murder rate in Seattle in 2012 was lower than in Tampa, Wichita or Virginia Beach.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate_(2012)

A century ago, a famous journalist named Lincoln Steffens and a couple other reporters started writing aggressively about crime in NYC. The public and elected officials believed--because they were reading more about crime--that the city was going through a major crime wave even though crime rates were actually holding firm or declining. Near panic ensued. Steffens wrote about it in "I Make a Crime Wave," which is must-reading in most serious journalism schools. Better to check real numbers than forming sweeping opinions based on what you read in the paper or hear on talk radio.
 
Enough already!! This thread is on it's way to the OT forum if it's trajectory doesn't change.

Let's return this thread to its original intent for Mrs. Forky. She wants to know about the area, not one person's likes and dislikes. I will work to delete the non-relevant posts. If it the creep returns, it'll be locked down or strikes assigned.

Sorry for the diversion, Mrs. Forky!!
 
The crime rate in Seattle is not that bad. After hearing all the nice things said about the area and boating, I have been thinking of moving to the PNW. In fact I just answered an employment ad for a job in Seattle. Sure hope I get it. It's for a position as a tail gunner on a bread truck.
 
Don, I thought it might have been for the tail gunner on Marin's boat!
 
You guys....


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's
✌️
 
Thanks Al for bringing my topic back for discussion. :) Even with the positives and negatives listed, we are still interested in exploring the area and what this boating opportunity could mean for Forky and Myself!
I know as in everything there is change as well as for us and the Gulf Coast region. Beautiful sandy beaches, lots of sunshine and beautiful blue water at times if you get past the Mississippi Delta is all we know. We are looking for a new experience and are educated as to what statistics show for areas we have considered.
Ok hit me: 2 or 3 things we must see on our trip when we begin our research of the Seattle area becoming home base? Would love to meet a few folk for a drink as well; so Forky can shoot the **** :) and I can shoot the Patron. :)
Sebi says HEY!

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Patricia Louise II
Present 42 Sundeck
The Best is yet to be!
 
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Just for the record...
She asked "Is this how you do it?" And I said it's fine. Hit post. Sorry about Sebi pic breaking up the post;).


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's
✌️
 
Just for the record...
She asked "Is this how you do it?" And I said it's fine. Hit post. Sorry about Sebi pic breaking up the post;).


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's
✌️

Tadaaaaaa!! No extra charge for the superb customer service. :D
 
Patricia--- If you will have time to explore more than the immediate Seattle area I suggest the following:

1. Go to Anacortes and take the ferry to Friday Harbor. This run goes through the main core of the San Juans and puts you right on the waterfront of the town which is easily explored on foot. Big harbor to walk the docks in, good restaurants, interesting shops. You can leave your car in the Anacortes terminal parking lot and walk on the ferry which is much cheaper than taking the car with you.

2. The town of Anacortes is well worth a visit, either on your way to and from the ferry terminal or on its own. The city harbor, Cap Sante, is large and worth a walk-around. Good waterfront restaurant there is Anthony's. Also a lot of good restaurants in the town itself.

3. Drive the length of Whidbey Island. You can catch the Mukilteo ferry just south of Everett and the short run takes you across to Clinton. Check out the towns of Langley in the south and Coupeville farther north. Oak Harbor has a marina (as well as being home to Whidbey Island Naval Air Station so the occasional jet roar). You can drive off the top end of island over the Deception Pass bridge which is worth parking in the lot just before you get to it and walking out on. Drive out just south of Anacortes, and then go east on Highway 20 to I-5 and back to Seattle.

4. Take the Seattle-Bemerton ferry and check out the Kitsap Penninsula and Bainbridge Island. Towns of interest are Port Orchard and Poulsbo.

5. If you have time a drive over to the Olympic Peninsula and the towns of Sequim (pronounced Squim) and Port Angeles is well worth it. If you like mountains you can drive up to Hurricane Ridge out of Port Angeles into the heart of the Olympic Mountains. If you like walking you can walk out as far as you want on Dungeness Spit which curves out into the Strait of Juan de Fuca. There is a lighthouse at the end that can be rented to stay in (the light is automated but the station is still there).

6. For a bit of a longer range adventure (but you can do it in a day) drive up to Vancouver, BC. A great destination there is the Granville Island Market which has a fabulous market where you can buy everything including fresh strawberries in February, sort of a Pike Place Market on super steroids, as well as restaurants and all sorts of shops. It's on False Creek and there are several harbors and marinas around it. Also a must-visit in Vancouver is Stanley Park which is a peninsula that juts out into the harbor. It has a very good aquarium as well as great views and walks. Vancouver has an excellent maritime museum west of False Creek on English Bay.

7. A neat waterfront town on the way to Vancouver is Steveston on one of the mouths of the Fraser River. Big commercial fishing fleet and a public fish/seafood market off the boats themselves. There is a cool maritime museum near the town (I've only seen pictures and their website).

8. Don't know your interests but in Seattle there are some good museums if you're into that. The Seattle Art Museum downtown is excellent and usually has some good traveling exhibits. The Museum of History and Industry at the south end of Lake Union has a lot of cool stuff from the city's past. On Boeing Field immediately south of Seattle is the Museum of Flight (not connected to Boeing itself) with a collection rivaled in the US only by the Smithsonian's National Air & Space Museum.

9. At the South end of Lake Union and near the Museum of History and Industry is the Wooden Boat Center. I've only been there once some time ago, but they build small wood boats there and I believe even have some rowing and sailing skiffs for rent.

10. Another thing I've never done but everyone I know who has says it's great is the Ride the Duck tour. This military surplus amphibious vehicle tour goes through Seattle and points out highlights in the city and then takes to the water of Lake Union to give a tour of the lake.

11. The Hiram Chittendon (sp?) locks on the ship canal that connects Lakes Union and Washington to the Sound is worth a visit, particularly on a weekend when the boat traffic is heavy. There are boaters going through who know what they're doing and boaters who don't.

12. At the same time you visit the locks drive to the other side of the Ship Canal and visit Fisherman's Terminal. Home to Seattle's commercial fishing fleet it also has taken on some recreational vessels to fill the docks.

13. The Seattle waterfront is pretty interesting and lively with the old Alaska Gold Rush-era angled piers used for everything from souvenir shops to restaurants. The Seattle aquarium is very good with a lot of creatures from this area. There is a ton of construction going on there now with the seawall replacement project and the new waterfront tunnel project but I believe the waterfront itself is still pretty accessible. From what I hear you don't want to take a car down there and try to park but maybe it's not that bad, I don't know. There are busses or depending on where you stay you can walk down.

But whatever you do, try to take at least one ride on a ferry.
 

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Well......

1st-Patron is our favorite poison so Bellingham should be on your list.

2nd-Fly into Seattle and catch a connection to Bellingham. The traffic around SeaTac is pretty awful and this will eliminate that problem.

3rd-Wear comfy shoes and walk on the ferry from Anacortes to Friday Harbor as ferry traffic is terrible on the weekends. FH is a wonderful walking place.

4th-Take a float plane ride to Rosario Resort on Orcas Island and spend the night there, just a great place.

5th-PM Bob & Jill for a tour of the sights of Whatcom County and a cruise on Ebbtide.

Bob & Jill

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Great list, Bob.

I'd add Gig Harbor to the list.

I will second that. We keep our Sailboat in Gig Harbor and it really can't be beat. The only downside is that there is currently no fuel in the harbor. However, one of the marinas is looking to bring back diesel.

We own a 50 ft slip that we bought about 6 years ago during the real estate crash. In the Harbor typical slips are about $9 per foot.

In 2008 we used Dudley Truckling to move our boat from Marina Del Rey to Tacoma. I was very impressed with them. Total cost for the haul out, shipping, and to splash her again was about $10k.

The PNW is some of the best boating country around. Great places to cruise from Olympia to AK.
 
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