Freefall windlass

[jclays]

Good Morning
I have a freefall windlass on my Mainship 350. Deploying the anchor is always freefall. No other option. Love this most of the time since I usually anchor in 100ft plus of water depth. My only issue is when I anchor in shallow water of say 20ft I cannot stop all 100ft of my anchor chain from running out. Any ideas of how I can control or slow this chain deployment? Cannot stop the windlass mid deployment.

 

[rgano]

You have any photo or make and model info? Most windlasses I have ever seen have some sort of friction braking.

 

[jclays]

You have any photo or make and model info? Most windlasses I have ever seen have some sort of friction braking.

These do not they are specifically free fall. Ment for fast drop.
Brand is Power Winch. Free fall 46.

 

[BruceK]

Sounded interesting/unusual so I did a search. https://www.amazon.com/Powerwinch-Fishing-Freefall-Anchor-Windlass/dp/B001PGWYN4.
Advert says free falling stops when the anchor hits the bottom. Yours doesn`t, so probably needs servicing. The mechanism which allows it to free fall sounds complex. Search the brand name, one result describes how free fall gets actuated.

 

[backinblue]

Never heard of such a thing and I don't think I would like it. I imagine it is supposed to sense the change in weight when the anchor hits the bottom. I wonder how it works if your anchor weight is relatively insignificant to the chain weight based on anchor and chain type and size and also the depth of the water you are in. One of the reviews on Amazon said that you need a relatively heavy anchor. Could be a disaster if you prefer all-chain rode.

 

[rslifkin]

Free fall windlasses like that are aimed at the fishing crowd where they want a quick drop. Personally, I'd never want one.

Unless they make a non free fall version of the same windlass where you could convert it, there's a good chance the only fix is to replace it with a different windlass.

 

[backinblue]

I also wonder what happens if it works like it should. Example, 25ft depth, anchor drops and stops when it hits bottom. What if you now want to deploy another 100 ft of rode? Do you release again and pull that out by hand? If it were my boat, I'd replace it.

 

[bowball]

I agree with the above.

off topic: I was anchoring in a stiff breeze and current and using my windlass electronically controlled from the helm to lower the chain in 40’ of water I had to reposition twice as I was getting blown back too far before the anchor touched bottom.

I should probably freefall itmto the bottom to quickly deploy and then lock it to deploy electronically the rest of the way?

 

[rslifkin]

I agree with the above.

off topic: I was anchoring in a stiff breeze and current and using my windlass electronically controlled from the helm to lower the chain in 40’ of water I had to reposition twice as I was getting blown back too far before the anchor touched bottom.

I should probably freefall itmto the bottom to quickly deploy and then lock it to deploy electronically the rest of the way?

A free drop to get it down fast is an option there. My windlass drops pretty fast under power, so I've never had much of an issue. I also anchor from the bow and signal back to the admiral at the helm to get and keep the boat where I want it while dropping.

 

[SoWhat]

The problem with freefall is you will end up with a pile of chain on top of the anchor.
The solution is a new windlass.

 

[jclays]

Actually it is working correctly. I bought it because I fish and 80% of time anchor in at least 100ft plus of water. I find my spot , go past it and start going in reverse as I deploy the anchor to spread out the chain.
As far of the free fall stopping you’re Misunderstanding . The gypsy stays in free spool until you switch the windlass to retrieve. As long as there is no weight pulling down on the gypsy then technically the free spool has stopped. I had this same windlass on a smaller fishing boat with only 30ft of chain . With 100ft of chain the chain runs when in shallow water.
Love this feature normally in deep water. Just want to find a solution for shallow bays of 20ft when I don’t need 100ft deployed. I have a big heavy Bruce. The chain won’t out run the anchor

 

[BruceK]

Actually it is working correctly. I bought it because I fish and 80% of time anchor in at least 100ft plus of water. I find my spot , go past it and start going in reverse as I deploy the anchor to spread out the chain.
As far of the free fall stopping you’re Misunderstanding . The gypsy stays in free spool until you switch the windlass to retrieve. As long as there is no weight pulling down on the gypsy then technically the free spool has stopped. I had this same windlass on a smaller fishing boat with only 30ft of chain . With 100ft of chain the chain runs when in shallow water.
Love this feature normally in deep water. Just want to find a solution for shallow bays of 20ft when I don’t need 100ft deployed. I have a big heavy Bruce. The chain won’t out run the anchor

"Technically" it may have stopped but in reality, has it? If yes, there would no issue to raise.
My previous boat had a Muir horizontal with freefall. We just closed the release clutch after dropping the chosen length of chain.

 

[backinblue]

Sounds like it is working correctly, but it probably is not meant to work with an all chain or lots of chain rode. When you are in 20' of water, you still have the weight of 20' of chain pulling on the gypsy once the anchor hits the bottom. Sounds to me that if you want this to work, you need to remove some of the chain from your rode, otherwise it's always going to deploy all your chain.

 

[Bmarler]

Actually it is working correctly. I bought it because I fish and 80% of time anchor in at least 100ft plus of water. I find my spot , go past it and start going in reverse as I deploy the anchor to spread out the chain.
As far of the free fall stopping you’re Misunderstanding . The gypsy stays in free spool until you switch the windlass to retrieve. As long as there is no weight pulling down on the gypsy then technically the free spool has stopped. I had this same windlass on a smaller fishing boat with only 30ft of chain . With 100ft of chain the chain runs when in shallow water.
Love this feature normally in deep water. Just want to find a solution for shallow bays of 20ft when I don’t need 100ft deployed. I have a big heavy Bruce. The chain won’t out run the anchor

Sounds like a separate rode for shallow water might be the thing. Go back to 30 feet of chain so it is easier to control in shallow water.

 

[Hippocampus]

Wonder how this would work in a stiff breeze. Often will put out enough to hit bottom then an additional 25’-50’. Wait a moment to straighten out. Then repeat until we get to 5:1. Unlike the sailboat the trawler will go sideways (beam to the wind) if you don’t do that. Think most trawlers have more windage forward than sail so would have similar behavior. If so free fall won’t work. You need control that’s not provided.
Also will anchor in expectation of weather. Then want 7 to even 10:1 depending upon setting. Will back down but again want control of what’s deployed. Most set ups give you an either/or. Have a clutch you can release for free fall but also two button (rocker switch) for up/down as well. Lewmar and Lofrans I had on the last two boats had that. As said would replace yours. Would think it could get you in trouble if you use the boat outside your usual program.

 

[jclays]

Wonder how this would work in a stiff breeze. Often will put out enough to hit bottom then an additional 25’-50’. Wait a moment to straighten out. Then repeat until we get to 5:1. Unlike the sailboat the trawler will go sideways (beam to the wind) if you don’t do that. Think most trawlers have more windage forward than sail so would have similar behavior. If so free fall won’t work. You need control that’s not provided.
Also will anchor in expectation of weather. Then want 7 to even 10:1 depending upon setting. Will back down but again want control of what’s deployed. Most set ups give you an either/or. Have a clutch you can release for free fall but also two button (rocker switch) for up/down as well. Lewmar and Lofrans I had on the last two boats had that. As said would replace yours. Would think it could get you in trouble if you use the boat outside your usual program.

It’s actually great in these conditions. You drop your anchor to the bottom right away. When the fall stops you play out your scope. Hit the up button to lock out the freerall then backdown. I’ve you need more scope hit the down button then play out more scope as needed then up button to lock out the free fall. Tie off to the cleat . Done. Works well if you need a fast drop eg : fishing, fast water , or wind. Just looking for a way to check the chain run in skinny water.
Love the windlass otherwise. I’ve put on 2 boats in the last 20 years

 

[rslifkin]

It’s actually great in these conditions. You drop your anchor to the bottom right away. When the fall stops you play out your scope. Hit the up button to lock out the freerall then backdown. I’ve you need more scope hit the down button then play out more scope as needed then up button to lock out the free fall. Tie off to the cleat . Done. Works well if you need a fast drop eg : fishing, fast water , or wind. Just looking for a way to check the chain run in skinny water.
Love the windlass otherwise. I’ve put on 2 boats in the last 20 years

If you don't mind going to the bow to do it, you can free drop using the clutch on most standard windlasses. So with the clutch tightened, you have power up/down, then when you loosen it it'll free drop (but you can stop at any point by tightening the clutch).

 

[jclays]

I don’t have to go to the bow. All done from the fly bridge via remote control

 

[Mischief Managed]

These do not they are specifically free fall. Ment for fast drop.
Brand is Power Winch. Free fall 46.

I had one of those on my last boat. Never really liked it. They use a one-way bearing to make the free fall work and it's not the best design, IMO because the bearing requires just the right amount of lube viscosity to work right and they act funny as the lube ages. That said, I bet it will work great if you had less chain and more rope in your rode and I suspect that type of mostly-rope rode, on a light planing hull boat, was the target market for those windlasses.

 

[jclays]

I had one of those on my last boat. Never really liked it. They use a one-way bearing to make the free fall work and it's not the best design, IMO because the bearing requires just the right amount of lube viscosity to work right and they act funny as the lube ages. That said, I bet it will work great if you had less chain and more rope in your rode and I suspect that type of mostly-rope rode, on a light planing hull boat, was the target market for those windlasses.

I was considering a second rode to switch over to in the event that I would use a shallow anchorage. I have a split anchor locker where I can store the other rode. Would be easy to unhook the anchor, pull back the chain and feed in the shorter chain rode.
I have my back up rode with 20ft of chain and the rest 5/8 line.

 

[BruceK]

I don’t have to go to the bow. All done from the fly bridge via remote control

So you can control paying out by hitting the up switch. Can you then release that to begin paying out without all the rode running out?
I assume there is no manual clutch to use even if someone goes forward, and you best option is the up switch. We just tightened the clutch.

 

[CaptTom]

So you can control paying out by hitting the up switch. Can you then release that to begin paying out without all the rode running out?

I can do that on mine. But I can't imagine it's good for the windlass.

 

[koliver]

If you don't mind going to the bow to do it, you can free drop using the clutch on most standard windlasses. So with the clutch tightened, you have power up/down, then when you loosen it it'll free drop (but you can stop at any point by tightening the clutch).

On a previous sailboat, the Lofrans windlass was not electrically operated, so to use it at all, one needed to be at the bow. Dropping was always a free drop, easily controlled with the clutch. Raising was with the lever arm, 3 clicks brought up each link of chain, both a forward push on the lever and an aft pull, so you always knew how much time and how many cranks to get the rode in.

 

[mvweebles]

Is it just me, or do others think it's weird to not have someone on the bow when anchoring? My ancient Ideal only has power retrieve and no remote, but even when anchoring on boats with remote, just seems blind to do it from the helm station.

Our personal routine is my wife is at the helm, I'm on the bow.

Just curious.....

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

Is it just me, or do others think it's weird to not have someone on the bow when anchoring? My ancient Ideal only has power retrieve and no remote, but even when anchoring on boats with remote, just seems blind to do it from the helm station.

Our personal routine is my wife is at the helm, I'm on the bow.

Just curious.....

Peter

I do it the same way and don't understand not wanting someone on the bow. Admiral at the helm, me on the bow holding the windlass remote. I could do it from the helm in a pinch (there's decent visibility for it), but I'd still have to run forward a couple of times in the process. I'd only do it from the helm if I were forced to anchor solo and it was too windy to leave the helm unattended.

Normally I consider that the person on the bow is in charge and the person at the helm is just there to push the engine controls around in response to hand signals from the bow.

 

[backinblue]

I also have someone on the bow to anchor. When dropping, I am at the helm and control the windlass from there. Wife lets me know how much rode is out and cleats it off and verifies the set looks good. When retrieveing, she is at the helm controlling the boat, I am controlling the windlass at the bow. A few simple hand signals work well in both cases.

 

[mvweebles]

A few simple hand signals work well in both cases.

Hand signals are another topic. We've tried 2-way radios, but for us, more hassle than they're worth. A picture is worth a thousand word so we reverted to hand signals anyway.

I think the key for couples new to boats and anchoring is for each to spend time at the helm and on-deck. That way, they know what information the helmsman needs, what s/he can see and can't see.

For us, the helmsman gives the order to drop anchor at which point effective control is turned over to the person on the bow.

Years ago when we were TrawlerFest presenters, my wife sat-in on a seminar given by a women who told her "men are strong and don't mind getting dirty. Let them handle the anchor and docklines." My fate as deckhand was sealed....

Peter.

 

[backinblue]

Thanks Peter. Since I have windlass control at the helm, I drop the anchor from there and she counts the rode markings as it pays out. I use the bow switches when retrieveing to take up the slack as she moves the boat forward. It's not really a dirty job either way normally. Mostly hands off except sometimes having to encourage the chain/rope splice through.

 

[jclays]

So you can control paying out by hitting the up switch. Can you then release that to begin paying out without all the rode running out?
I assume there is no manual clutch to use even if someone goes forward, and you best option is the up switch. We just tightened the clutch.

Noooo. Can’t use the up switch to stop a fall.
Once the load has hit the bottom then I play out a little more nylon line. Hit the up switch to lock the gypsy, then back down. If good tie off, otherwise hit down button pay out more line etc…

 

[BruceK]

Is it just me, or do others think it's weird to not have someone on the bow when anchoring? My ancient Ideal only has power retrieve and no remote, but even when anchoring on boats with remote, just seems blind to do it from the helm station. ...

Peter

Agree. The unexpected can happen during drop or retrieve, unless single handing it makes sense someone is on the bow.