Fleming 55 v Fleming 65

[bowball]

Looked at the Fleming 55 side by side with a 65, and I think the 55 just feels better for a couple (even with a guest couple perhaps). Does anyone else agree cozier can be better? Not in the engine room but if that maintenance is outsourced when feasible.

I’m not taking about handling or docking, but being inside in the saloon and cabins.

Anyone else?

 

[DegoRed]

100% would recommend the 55 over 65, especially for a couple.

 

[sunchaser]

The ER in the 55 is challenging while the 65's is well laid out with good accessibility. Look up Tony Fleming's videos for some insight on the 65. But, they both are in demand suggesting it would be tough to find one.

 

[RedRascal]

I think it all comes back to the mission. The 55 will allow you to get into some places the 65 can't go. The 65 being a bigger boat will be better when it's rough. The space on the 65s boat deck allows for two dinghies, big and small. That's a plus for exploring, big dinghy let's you cover lot's of ground in rougher water and small dinghy can help with difficult shore landings. The 65 allows for two lower helm seats which I think is a plus for a long haul or when two people are needed for navigation. Sometimes it's helpful for one person to drive the boat and a second person to work out navigation stuff. I prefer a boat where two people can put their feet up on a settee or chair and footrest in the salon. Both boats allow for that. The 65 could allow for 4 people to enjoy feet up relaxation. I could see the 65 winning out for the extra capabilities mentioned above however from a stateroom, salon and gallery perspective it seems like a 55 would be fine. I've only toured a 55, 58 and 65 so no experience actually cruising on any of them. I did tour the engine room of a 58 and wasn't that impressed with the access to the outboard side of the engines. It would be lots of yoga for me to get to the outboard sides, access down the middle was lovely.

 

[ranger58sb]

The 55 we toured seemed cramped, likely because their great side decks reduce interior space so much (and compared to our own boats).

On paper, the 65 looks really nice to me... and the few we've been near present well on the outside. (Our previous marina is next door to the local dealer, who also leases a number of slips for their Fleming transients in that marina.)

But.... maybe the 58 is the best compromise. Haven't been on one of those either, but it looks better to me on paper than the 55.

-Chris

 

[bowball]

The 55 we toured seemed cramped, likely because their great side decks reduce interior space so much (and compared to our own boats).

On paper, the 65 looks really nice to me... and the few we've been near present well on the outside. (Our previous marina is next door to the local dealer, who also leases a number of slips for their Fleming transients in that marina.)

But.... maybe the 58 is the best compromise. Haven't been on one of those either, but it looks better to me on paper than the 55.

-Chris

I don’t like the 58 as well, as I don’t think it’s as good in tough water as the 55 or 65 (tradeoff of raising the deck height).

I don’t know whether the 65 is worth 2x though.

Ann N f I still like the snugness of the 55.

 

[pjtemplin]

I think it all comes back to the mission. The 55 will allow you to get into some places the 65 can't go. The 65 being a bigger boat will be better when it's rough. The space on the 65s boat deck allows for two dinghies, big and small.

By the numbers, they have the same draft. 10' difference in LOA, 11' difference in LWL. 2'8" difference in beam. Clearly some slips are a no-go for the 65 where the 55 would fit. What else are we talking about?


I know Tony Fleming gets two dinghies because the smaller one is deflated to fit under the davit. Otherwise, you're likely going to have to rearrange railings and block the access hatch to get a second up there...right?

 

[twistedtree]

This isn't specific to the F55 vs F65, but is more a general comment that if you are torn between a larger and smaller boat, go with the larger boat. Boats get smaller over time, never bigger. Every time I have compared two size boats and thought "oh my god that is so huge", that feeling has only lasted a short time. Yet over my ownership of each boat I'm constantly reminded how glad I have been that I picked the larger boat.


Some people say you should get the smallest boat that will fit your needs. I think that's backwards, and that you should get the largest boat that you think fits your needs and that you can manage operationally, financially, logistically, etc.

 

[bowball]

By the numbers, they have the same draft. 10' difference in LOA, 11' difference in LWL. 2'8" difference in beam. Clearly some slips are a no-go for the 65 where the 55 would fit. What else are we talking about?


I know Tony Fleming gets two dinghies because the smaller one is deflated to fit under the davit. Otherwise, you're likely going to have to rearrange railings and block the access hatch to get a second up there...right?

On the 55 the hatch is blocked when you carry a longer tender sideways as many do. But frankly that hatch isn’t essential as you can go down the stairs in the pilot house.

I assume the beam might create more issues on some fairways and the length too.

 

[bowball]

This isn't specific to the F55 vs F65, but is more a general comment that if you are torn between a larger and smaller boat, go with the larger boat. Boats get smaller over time, never bigger. Every time I have compared two size boats and thought "oh my god that is so huge", that feeling has only lasted a short time. Yet over my ownership of each boat I'm constantly reminded how glad I have been that I picked the larger boat.


Some people say you should get the smallest boat that will fit your needs. I think that's backwards, and that you should get the largest boat that you think fits your needs and that you can manage operationally, financially, logistically, etc.

Of course the larger is close to 2x the price plus maintenance cost differential. One has to ask whether it’s worth the lost investment earnings or in a tougher market depreciation.

 

[RedRascal]

By the numbers, they have the same draft. 10' difference in LOA, 11' difference in LWL. 2'8" difference in beam. Clearly some slips are a no-go for the 65 where the 55 would fit. What else are we talking about?

I am thinking about anchorages that are tight or have rocks that you need to maneuver around. Once in awhile you get into issues with tree branches.

Examples of some places that come to mind would be:
-Pirates Cove on De Courcy Island with the Canadian Gulf Islands, not sure if Tony Fleming stuffed Venture in that one or not.
-Prideaux Haven in Desolation Sound, B.C. Canada, you need to make a turn the get in there and it may be tight with a 65
-Barkley Sound off the West Coast of Vancouver Island, Canada, has numerous places where both boats will not fit but you'll have a better chance of stuffing the 55 in somewhere than the 65. Tree branches would be an issue with Julia Passage by Alma Russell Island.

It boils down to scenarios where you're keeping a minimum distance between the boat and a rock. If you draw the line at maybe maintaining a 10 foot buffer between the boat and a rock the extra beam on the 65 may eat into your 10 foot buffer. This can also come into play with dog leg entrances, the 55 will give you a little more buffer over the 65 when you have to make turns between rocks.

 

[Datenight]

It boils down to scenarios where you're keeping a minimum distance between the boat and a rock. If you draw the line at maybe maintaining a 10 foot buffer between the boat and a rock the extra beam on the 65 may eat into your 10 foot buffer. This can also come into play with dog leg entrances, the 55 will give you a little more buffer over the 65 when you have to make turns between rocks.

You are a braver man than me!

Rob

 

[koliver]

I am thinking about anchorages that are tight or have rocks that you need to maneuver around. Once in awhile you get into issues with tree branches.

Examples of some places that come to mind would be:
-Pirates Cove on De Courcy Island with the Canadian Gulf Islands, not sure if Tony Fleming stuffed Venture in that one or not.
-Prideaux Haven in Desolation Sound, B.C. Canada, you need to make a turn the get in there and it may be tight with a 65
-Barkley Sound off the West Coast of Vancouver Island, Canada, has numerous places where both boats will not fit but you'll have a better chance of stuffing the 55 in somewhere than the 65. Tree branches would be an issue with Julia Passage by Alma Russell Island.

It boils down to scenarios where you're keeping a minimum distance between the boat and a rock. If you draw the line at maybe maintaining a 10 foot buffer between the boat and a rock the extra beam on the 65 may eat into your 10 foot buffer. This can also come into play with dog leg entrances, the 55 will give you a little more buffer over the 65 when you have to make turns between rocks.

Pirates is too shallow for even the 55, IMO. The entry is over a shoal that has nailed almost every depth over 4', so I won't go if i have a lowish tide at the time of entry or exit. Once inside, there isn't much room, even if tied back. Ruxton Passage is a much better bet for DeCourcy.

Prideaux frequently has boats of over 80', draft of 8+, though the same big boats go in and out with local knowledge. Low speed through the entry is the key. Outside, there are available, deeper, friendlier coves a plenty. I don't see the F65 being any more of an issue than the F55 anywhere in Desolation.

 

[BandB]

Looked at the Fleming 55 side by side with a 65, and I think the 55 just feels better for a couple (even with a guest couple perhaps). Does anyone else agree cozier can be better? Not in the engine room but if that maintenance is outsourced when feasible.

I’m not taking about handling or docking, but being inside in the saloon and cabins.

Anyone else?

Cozier was translated by Ranger into cramped and that's how we'd translate it. Sure, much more comfortable than a 30 or 40', but the 55 leads to a lot of trade ups due to it's cramped conditions. However, the 55 has many many very happy owners and the number one criticism is the bow master cabin. That's a personal decision. That's one thing that led to the 58 which is really closer in size to the 65 than to the 55. The full beam mid ship master is so nice.

Ultimately, it depends on personal tastes and use. If I was using in protected and near coastal waters, then the 55 is fine. If cruising long distances offshore, then I'd go larger.

 

[RedRascal]

Pirates is too shallow for even the 55, IMO. The entry is over a shoal that has nailed almost every depth over 4', so I won't go if i have a lowish tide at the time of entry or exit. Once inside, there isn't much room, even if tied back. Ruxton Passage is a much better bet for DeCourcy.

Prideaux frequently has boats of over 80', draft of 8+, though the same big boats go in and out with local knowledge. Low speed through the entry is the key. Outside, there are available, deeper, friendlier coves a plenty. I don't see the F65 being any more of an issue than the F55 anywhere in Desolation.

So for Pirates Cove I thought there would be enough water on a 5 foot plus tide if you followed the black line. I thought you'd be okay with depth and the issue may be width. Isn't there a rocky shelf by the green marker? I could see a risk of kissing a stabilizer fin on what I remember as a shelf or ledge that was very close to the channel or in the channel.

That would be impressive to see an 80 footer enter Prideaux, local knowledge is king.

 

[bowball]

100% would recommend the 55 over 65, especially for a couple.

Why?

 

[bowball]

Cozier was translated by Ranger into cramped and that's how we'd translate it. Sure, much more comfortable than a 30 or 40', but the 55 leads to a lot of trade ups due to it's cramped conditions. However, the 55 has many many very happy owners and the number one criticism is the bow master cabin. That's a personal decision. That's one thing that led to the 58 which is really closer in size to the 65 than to the 55. The full beam mid ship master is so nice.

Ultimately, it depends on personal tastes and use. If I was using in protected and near coastal waters, then the 55 is fine. If cruising long distances offshore, then I'd go larger.

I like the forward master berth, so that’s what I would want in the 65. Great ventilation and quiet at anchor.

I wouldn’t say the 55 is cramped. Maybe with 6 adults the salon would feel tight after a wheel but there are so many other places to go.

Going from a 16’ beam of the 55 to the 18’8” (?) beam of the 65 is meaningful though.

 

[DegoRed]

Why?

Couple of reasons:
1. have been on the 55 and really love the boat.

2. I currently am 52ft and its next to impossible to find slip space, regardless or price, it just simply does not exist. They rent slips in 5ft increments, meaning a person wanting room for a 52ft is same as person looking for 55ft, I am currently in a 55ft slip.

3. Slip space is really really hard to find over 50ft, under 50ft no problem, over 50ft good luck.

4. Slip space is really hard to find.

5. Have run into several 60+ ft boats, and they say they can't find slip space at all anywhere.

Please keep in mind my recent experience has been Maryland down to Florida, am sure its probably different for those on the West Coast. Truthfully IF I was looking for a boat, would try to find a 48ft boat just so I wouldn't have to fight to find a place to park.

When I was looking for a marina, bet I called 200 marina's if I called one, no luck. Only way I got the space I'm in now, just happen to call them and they said a guy was just pulling out now, I paid for the slip 3 months in advanced, sight unseen just to get a slip. Better to be lucky than good.

 

[bowball]

Ah, I understand. I have a 70’ slip… but I agree with you the 55’ is a great boat. Just wondering if the 65’ is twice as good! By myself I’d feel lost inside the 65’.

 

[ranger58sb]

I like the forward master berth, so that’s what I would want in the 65. Great ventilation and quiet at anchor.

I wouldn’t say the 55 is cramped. Maybe with 6 adults the salon would feel tight after a wheel but there are so many other places to go.

Going from a 16’ beam of the 55 to the 18’8” (?) beam of the 65 is meaningful though.

We recently moved from bow master to full-beam midships master. Taking a flying leap to get on and off the bow master was getting to be a PITA for olderboaters like us. Standard height bed in a full walk-around... good. (Standard height in the bow wouldn't be bad, but I've not seen any like that...)

16' beam with 3' of it (?) taken up by walk-around sidedecks means a ~13' beam inside. We would compare that against a boat that carries interior width almost full beam, although with higher/less friendly exterior sidedecks.

In our case, when we were buying our previous boat... with top two candidates being a boat like we have now and a trawler... wifey preferred the wider interior space (i.e. not the trawler), and I came to appreciate the difference over time.

That's just us, of course...

-Chris

 

[bowball]

We recently moved from bow master to full-beam midships master. Taking a flying leap to get on and off the bow master was getting to be a PITA for olderboaters like us. Standard height bed in a full walk-around... good. (Standard height in the bow wouldn't be bad, but I've not seen any like that...)

That's just us, of course...

-Chris

I can see that about the step up to the master bed in the bow. I have two steps but I agree it’s not the same, so that is very understandable. Mines made particularly difficult as it’s at a 90 degree angle! ?

 

[Adopo]

We looked at the 55 at the last Palm Beach boat show, I think it was a 2016 model with an asking of 2.2 or so. We thought it seemed small for a 55. I was told the 65 has over 30% plus more volume. Flemings certainly command a premium. A 65 just got listed with 5700 hours at 2.3mm. Nice looking boat, just don't like the 5700 hours.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2008-fleming-65-8314105/

Check out this link below as it allows you to look at a listing for a 65 and below it a 55 for comparison.

https://burryachtsales.com/boat-category/previously-cruised/

https://burryachtsales.com/model-comparison/

 

[timb7734]

100% for the 58 midship master opposed to either the 55 or the 65. Currently have a 52 with OAL of 57, the 58 has an OAL of like over 64. Unfortunately it will not fit in my owned dock due to length and not many docks available here in S Florida.

 

[timb7734]

Friend had a 55 and thought it too confining to have overnight guests, see no problem with that on the 58. Likewise my 52 would be too cozy for any but family and then not more than a night or two.

 

[socalrider]

I'd take a serious look at this Grand Alaskan 62 if I were in the market for a vessel of that calibre. Seems like a very reasonable price compared to the Flemings.

Probably gives up some top speed with twin 300hp Cat C-7's but sure looks beautiful to my eye:

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2006-grand-alaskan-raised-pilot-8316382/

 

[Adopo]

I'd take a serious look at this Grand Alaskan 62 if I were in the market for a vessel of that calibre. Seems like a very reasonable price compared to the Flemings.

Probably gives up some top speed with twin 300hp Cat C-7's but sure looks beautiful to my eye:

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2006-grand-alaskan-raised-pilot-8316382/

Very nice, we had a 64 under contract a few months back but for a few things would have proceeded. Even located and spoke to several people who where with the original builder. Nice boats.

 

[bowball]

100% for the 58 midship master opposed to either the 55 or the 65. Currently have a 52 with OAL of 57, the 58 has an OAL of like over 64. Unfortunately it will not fit in my owned dock due to length and not many docks available here in S Florida.

I’d pick the 65 over the 58 easily and you can get it midship of it matters. I like the traditional layout personally.

 

[BDeffebach]

Few opinions. My wife and I looked at the 55 and 65. We ended up buying the 65. We manage it with the two of us (both in our 50s). We primarily have cruised the bahamas and have not had trouble finding slips though we anchor out 90% of the time. We have grown kids and the 55 certainly seemed cramped for 6 people. Think it would fine for two, but we appreciate the room for visitors, toys (scuba compressor, etc.), provisions, and larger dinghy capacity. We bought used but if I designed mine it would be midship master (much quieter).

Don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

[BandB]

Few opinions. My wife and I looked at the 55 and 65. We ended up buying the 65. We manage it with the two of us (both in our 50s). We primarily have cruised the bahamas and have not had trouble finding slips though we anchor out 90% of the time. We have grown kids and the 55 certainly seemed cramped for 6 people. Think it would fine for two, but we appreciate the room for visitors, toys (scuba compressor, etc.), provisions, and larger dinghy capacity. We bought used but if I designed mine it would be midship master (much quieter).

Don't think you can go wrong with either.

But you can go wrong with either, if it's the wrong choice for you.

 

[bowball]

Few opinions. My wife and I looked at the 55 and 65. We ended up buying the 65. We manage it with the two of us (both in our 50s). We primarily have cruised the bahamas and have not had trouble finding slips though we anchor out 90% of the time. We have grown kids and the 55 certainly seemed cramped for 6 people. Think it would fine for two, but we appreciate the room for visitors, toys (scuba compressor, etc.), provisions, and larger dinghy capacity. We bought used but if I designed mine it would be midship master (much quieter).

Don't think you can go wrong with either.

Thank you. I’ve come to the same conclusion. I don’t mind single handing the 55, though not out of preference. My use is only for one to two to occasional four people, and agree six would become tight on the 55,. However, I wouldn’t want the 65 if if the size of it kept me from using it singlehanded, and hence stuck at the dock, but I don’t think it’s much different, especially as I have an oversized boathouse with easy access. Like you I might have gone midship master or at least the clever 3 ensuites below (I just looked at one and liked it) but you take what you can get.