FL Liveaboard (on the hook) insurance?

[ERTF]

I'm gonna cash buy a late 80s trawler in the 40-45ft / $40-80k range to live on the hook in Miami thru the Keys. Initially I was intending to stick to a $40-50k purchase plus maybe $5-10k in upgrades. Worst case scenario I watch $50k sink to the bottom of the ocean -- I can swallow that. I'm currently paying over $20k annual rent, so if I got 2.5 years out of it, I still broke even. So my tentative plan has been to just carry liability. Well now I've caught starry eyes for a boat that's $80k. That's starting to be a serious chunk of change. That's half a house in much of America. Worst case scenario, I could replace, but it would put a noticeable dent in my piggybank.

So today I checked BoatUS hull coverage for an $80k boat in FL. They didn't have an "at anchor" option, so I chose mooring (seemed closest). Quote was $9000-$9600! I know FL is high-risk with hurricanes, but 12% of purchase price annual premium?

Anybody in similar situation? What do you pay? What providers should I seek a quote?

 

[Rain Dog]

I just went through a similar exercise with my new 80s trawler. I have a Florida address but am in the Panhandle, which is probably cheaper than where you are. Most insurance brokers I called could not find anyone who would write me a policy other than BoatUS. I think most companies have stopped writing new Florida policies. BoatUS quoted me 4-5% of hull value. I have been with BoatUS for 10 years and never filed a claim.

 

[ERTF]

BoatUS quoted me 4-5% of hull value.

Thanks for the info. I definitely wouldn't even consider paying anything over 5% on an $80k boat. That's solidly "maybe" territory for me personally. I'm not even questioning the actuaries evaluation of risk; South FL is def a risky place to be insuring a boat. But even $4k a year...in only 5 years that's $20k (+ compounding) I could have socked away instead. I'd be tempted to either stomach the risk or just lower my purchase price ceiling.

 

[FF]

"I'd be tempted to either stomach the risk or just lower my purchase price ceiling."


Or simply plan ahead .

 

[psneeld]

I'm gonna cash buy a late 80s trawler in the 40-45ft / $40-80k range to live on the hook in Miami thru the Keys. Initially I was intending to stick to a $40-50k purchase plus maybe $5-10k in upgrades. Worst case scenario I watch $50k sink to the bottom of the ocean -- I can swallow that. I'm currently paying over $20k annual rent, so if I got 2.5 years out of it, I still broke even. So my tentative plan has been to just carry liability. Well now I've caught starry eyes for a boat that's $80k. That's starting to be a serious chunk of change. That's half a house in much of America. Worst case scenario, I could replace, but it would put a noticeable dent in my piggybank.

So today I checked BoatUS hull coverage for an $80k boat in FL. They didn't have an "at anchor" option, so I chose mooring (seemed closest). Quote was $9000-$9600! I know FL is high-risk with hurricanes, but 12% of purchase price annual premium?

Anybody in similar situation? What do you pay? What providers should I seek a quote?

You said it in your own opening statement.

"Worst case scenario I watch $50k sink to the bottom of the ocean -- I can swallow that."

I sensed right away the deal, so do the insurance companies.

I will bet others respond with different situations paying way less on a similar replacement cost of the boat.

 

[ERTF]

You said it in your own opening statement.
I sensed right away the deal, so do the insurance companies.

What exactly are you sensing?? Certainly no "senses" on the insurance company end...it was an online generated quote.

 

[DavidM]

Talk to a marine insurance broker. IMIS Corp is a good one and even though they are in Maryland they insure lots of Florida boats. Progressive used to have decent Florida rates, so check with them as well although I think that they have a length limit on what they will insure.



David

 

[ERTF]

"I'd be tempted to either stomach the risk or just lower my purchase price ceiling."


Or simply plan ahead .

Obviously. But part of planning ahead is the recognition that planning isn't guaranteed to protect you from every possible negative contingency.

 

[psneeld]

What exactly are you sensing?? Certainly no "senses" on the insurance company end...it was an online generated quote.

Depending on the information requested, even a machine can categorize. The basic profile you describes is of a person looking for an inexpensive way to live, on an inexpensive boat...and feels like they can just walk away if it sinks.

Now that may not be you, but if that impression is made, that's what decisions are based on.

Just stating living aboard on a mooring ball...while I may not think that is a trigger at all,.....it is to insurance companies I have talked to (heck, how you tie your boat up at a marina is)....and to other cruisers who see the same patterns wherever they cruise.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Contact the Marine Trawlers Owners Association for their insurance program. We saved thousands over non-MTOA quotes and got better coverage. IIRC it was around $40 a year to join. Our home port is Jacksonville.

 

[ERTF]

The basic profile you describes is of a person looking for an inexpensive way to live, on an inexpensive boat...and feels like they can just walk away if it sinks.

$80k sounds like a derelict hobo craft to you? What else does one do besides start over when a boat like that sinks? You gonna spend twice the replacement cost to gut, rewire, re-outfit, and repower an entire boat??

 

[FF]

"But part of planning ahead is the recognition that planning isn't guaranteed to protect you from every possible negative contingency."

Only death can protect you from "every possible negative contingency".

A good plan will mean there is far less chance of an out of pocket expense , should everything not go according to plan..

If you just want to experience living aboard there are many fine sail boats in Florida Mariner well under $20K .

 

[psneeld]

$80k sounds like a derelict hobo craft to you? What else does one do besides start over when a boat like that sinks? You gonna spend twice the replacement cost to gut, rewire, re-outfit, and repower an entire boat??

Just posting what I know or have heard.

My liveaboard insurance in FL would be 1/2 what you quoted for a $60000 boat.

 

[South of Heaven]

ERTF: These guys are just trying to help and have many years of combined experience. Don't let your emotions get involved. Good luck man. Red tape and bureaucracy can always be stressful.

 

[Comodave]

Wow, I thought my $790 per year insurance was bad.

 

[SailorGreg]

$80k sounds like a derelict hobo craft to you? What else does one do besides start over when a boat like that sinks? You gonna spend twice the replacement cost to gut, rewire, re-outfit, and repower an entire boat??

If you sink without insurance the loss of the purchase price of the boat may be acceptable, but the cost of clean-up and removal could be significant. One can’t just “walk away”.

 

[psneeld]

If you sink without insurance the loss of the purchase price of the boat may be acceptable, but the cost of clean-up and removal could be significant. One can’t just “walk away”.

Unfortunately many do and the insurance companies are trying to weed those boaters out with high premiums.

 

[Woodland Hills]

BTW I am paying about 1/2 of what you were quoted for my 63’ Hatteras with an agreed value of $350k through the MTOA. This includes spending hurricane season in Florida.

Do not be surprised if you need to have your boat surveyed before the policy is in place, this is one way to weed out those who want to insure semi-derelicts.

 

[ERTF]

If you sink without insurance the loss of the purchase price of the boat may be acceptable, but the cost of clean-up and removal could be significant. One can’t just “walk away”.

Isn't that covered by liability?

 

[Woodland Hills]

Isn't that covered by liability?

It might be, then again insurance companies are not known for their open handed generosity. Most likely they will claim it was due to negligence and let you take them to court to prove otherwise. Or, more likely, by the time they apply all the depreciation and deductibles you will end up with nothing anyway leaving you on the hook for the cleanup.

 

[ERTF]

It might be, then again insurance companies are not known for their open handed generosity. Most likely they will claim it was due to negligence and let you take them to court to prove otherwise. Or, more likely, by the time they apply all the depreciation and deductibles you will end up with nothing anyway.

Doesn't sound like much of a reason to choose to give them MORE money / control of my destiny (full coverage vs liability).

 

[BandB]

Talk to a marine insurance broker. IMIS Corp is a good one and even though they are in Maryland they insure lots of Florida boats. Progressive used to have decent Florida rates, so check with them as well although I think that they have a length limit on what they will insure.



David

Yes, yes, yes, to marine insurance broker. There are plenty of insurers writing coverage and they can shop them for you.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Try living aboard with none. You are not going to be welcome very many places without it. Most marinas will require liability for long term stays and if you look sketchy they can ask for the policy and binder number out front. No business owner or municipality wants to get stuck with a cleanup bill if something goes wrong.

You can always anchor out where nobody will care or keep moving and pay transient rates.

 

[ERTF]

Never did I suggest going without liability. Even in my original post, I said I intended to carry liability (at minimum).

 

[Lepke]

You might try Hagerty: https://www.hagerty.com/Insurance/Classic-Boat-Insurance
They cover US and Canadian territorial waters. I had no problem insuring my 1942 wood boat. No required winter layup.

 

[psneeld]

Isn't that covered by liability?

Damage to others probably is, but salvage unless separate line item comes out of hull value first, then the rest is paid.

Not sure about fines to government entities.

Usually environmental cleanup is the $900,000+ line item and is included in my policy with no extra premium.

 

[Gmarr]

Lots of stuff goes into pricing policies- not just hull value. Haven’t seen Ted? On here for awhile to mention more?

 

[kimden5]

Fl liveaboard

Shop around on insurance. Every quote I've ever had from Boat US has been ridiculously high.

 

[Rain Dog]

Shop around on insurance. Every quote I've ever had from Boat US has been ridiculously high.

Based on my recent experience, if you are in FL with an old boat, shopping around doesn't gain you much. I went to four brokers. Two could not quote me any policy, two quoted me a single policy that was higher than what I got by going directly to Geico.

I think since last years storms, companies have stopped writing new policies in Florida.

The best I could find was 4-5%. I have great credit, 10 years with no claims (on my previous boat), and the boat is not on the coast for hurricane season.

If anyone finds a better deal (on a NEW policy with a Florida address), I would like to hear about it.

I already tried IMIS. No luck there. I will try MTOA and Hagerty.

 

[nodestination]

Wow, I thought my $790 per year insurance was bad.

What company selling that cheap. I could not find for less that 2000 on my GS 36