First boat - trying to get it right

[Kytra]

Hello

We're working to realise a life change which we've been planning for 5 years. The house is for sale & with the sale proceeds, we want to take semi retirement as liveaboard cruisers. We're currently selling our "stuff". We want a motorboat for the more comfortable living space, wife does not want a sailing boat.

Currently located in the UK, we are looking to source the boat within the UK or Europe. After buying our intention is to get qualified & get some experience around the Scottish Islands, then after 3 years head for the Med. After that, we want the option of going anywhere we want. Whether that is the Baltic, the French canals, or an ocean crossing.

We've spent some time looking at boats & have considered something like a Trader. They have great space, but not too good fuel efficiency & I have some concerns about the manufacturer's history. A Fleming or Nordhavn would be great, but they are outside of our budget. Although our budget just covers an older Fleming.

We've been interested in an Elling E3 or E4. They seem to suit our requirements & have good safety features, good fuel consumption & sometimes also have a wing engine.

What does the forum advise about Ellings? Advantage to us is that we can afford a 10 year old one, the manufacturers seem very helpful, there's a steady small stream of Ellings available & my wife loves them!

Requirements:
Suit 2 people, Fuel efficient, Cat A, Heating, a/c would be nice, fridge, freezer, Generator, Wife insists on a washing machine, 1 head - 2 heads a bonus, at least 2 cabins, Space for 2 computers, not longer than 50ft.
Approx budget: GBP 250k, Euro 295k, USD 325k

Thoughts & advice very welcome.

Here's an Elling E4:

Luxury Yacht Builders | Elling Yachts

 

[kwmeyer13]

Welcome to the board. Good luck in your search.

 

[ranger58sb]

We've been interested in an Elling E3 or E4. They seem to suit our requirements & have good safety features, good fuel consumption & sometimes also have a wing engine.

What does the forum advise about Ellings? Advantage to us is that we can afford a 10 year old one, the manufacturers seem very helpful, there's a steady small stream of Ellings available & my wife loves them!

Here's an Elling E4:

Can't comment on suitability, but it's an interesting design; think maybe I saw one of those around here last year...

I see they bill themselves as "luxury yacht" builders so I'd guess they may be more expensive than other brands/models of similar size and capabilities...

FWIW, we prefer more "house" abovedecks, more like the Flemings you mentioned (the local dealer's fleet is next door at their own docks and in leased slips in our marina). The Elling models models seem to be more similar to sailboats or what we might call and "express cruiser" powerboat, here...

-Chris

 

[Kytra]

Thanks Chris

In fact the below deck saloon is something that we both like. It means that if we were berthed in a marina, we wouldn't feel like we were sitting in a goldfish bowl.

The boat does seem to be well built, but you are correct - they are not cheap.

 

[Tamrow]

Elling E4 capsize test

 

[Kytra]

Thanks for the link.

We have seen that. Pretty cool that the CEO motored off in the boat after the roll-over! It's one of the safety features that makes of feel that it's worth spending a little more for the boat. We also like the kevlar reinforced hull.

 

[danderer]

Nice marketing but I'd think rollovers are rarely that benign.

I'd be more interested in how the glass held up in a real-world roll or pitch. 'Course you could always install covers when going offshore.

 

[dhays]

Welcome Kytra.

Good luck with pursuing your dreams. You have identified a number of requirements for the boat which is a great place to start. A couple questions I have...
- What level of boating experience do you and your wife have? You mention this will be a "first boat". Have you chartered? Have either of you spent extended time on a boat?
- What skills do you bring to the table? Are you a mechanic or electrician? Do you have experience with engine repair and maintenance?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. K. Welcome aboard. Well, a Marine Trader would suit most of your needs EXCEPT and ocean crossing IMO. Blue water boats are a whole different animal than coastal cruisers. Even longish, within range crossings can be made with a MT but ONLY if one keeps a good eye on the weather. For canal cruising keep in mind air draft.

 

[Kytra]

Thanks for your reply Dave

We have chartered motor boats for the past 5 years, at least once a year if not more often. I do want to get fully qualified through the RYA courses in the UK. We have not spent extended time on a boat, only around 4-6 weeks. When we are on a boat - it feels like home. My wife is very good at painting!

My skills are electrical, computers & technology. I can service an engine & do regular repairs such as replace an alternator. My intention is to further these skills with a diesel engine course.

 

[Kytra]

Greetings,
Mr. K. Welcome aboard. Well, a Marine Trader would suit most of your needs EXCEPT and ocean crossing IMO. Blue water boats are a whole different animal than coastal cruisers. Even longish, within range crossings can be made with a MT but ONLY if one keeps a good eye on the weather. For canal cruising keep in mind air draft.

Thanks RTF

I was meaning the UK Trader range, which I think are different to the Marine Traders which are sold in the USA. A Marine Trader would therefore be difficult & expensive for us to buy (travel, electrics & VAT).

The Elling has a useful arch which can swing down to give a clearance of 12ft.

 

[Retriever]

I traveled with a 48' Elling from Anacortes to Ketchikan (~700nm) a couple years ago. It was certainly a nice boat! Efficient, well built, beautiful woodwork, more space inside than I expected. The big sunroof was pretty cool, too!

Engine access wasn't very good...a galley wall had to be removed to get a decent look at things in the rather cramped engine space. And I'm not a big fan of the layout with most of the interior below decks. Perhaps not an issue for you, since you're in Europe, but it seemed like a lot of the components were European and not easily purchased in the US.

 

[Kytra]

Thanks for your reply.

The lack of an engine room is one of the minus points for me, but there are also panels in the midships & aft cabins which can be removed also for engine access. I realise that at my budget, I can't have everything I want & must compromise on things.

What sort of weather did you travel in?

European components are a plus for us!

 

[Retriever]

We didn't have any particularly rough conditions, just occasional 2-4 foot chop. The Elling did just fine and I never heard the owners complain about the ride.

 

[Britannia]

Layout is obviously personal preference. When I decided to buy a boat and live aboard, I had owned a sailboat for 15 years. I decided that I wanted to have the primary living area above decks so that I could enjoy the view. If I want privacy I can always close the blinds - in practice I rarely do. Being "down below" with little to no visibility outside was fine for short cruises but not what I wanted for full time living aboard.

Food for thought,

Richard

 

[dhays]

Thanks for your reply Dave

We have chartered motor boats for the past 5 years, at least once a year if not more often. I do want to get fully qualified through the RYA courses in the UK. We have not spent extended time on a boat, only around 4-6 weeks. When we are on a boat - it feels like home. My wife is very good at painting!

My skills are electrical, computers & technology. I can service an engine & do regular repairs such as replace an alternator. My intention is to further these skills with a diesel engine course.

That is excellent. You have had enough experience to make informed choices for the two of you.

As others have mentioned, a boat that would be comfortable as a full time live aboard has features that wouldn't make it ideal for blue water crossings and visa versa. If you are thinking that you want to spend years on the boat before you think about an ocean crossing, I would put those abilities as a relatively low priority. If you then decide years down the road to make ocean crossings, you may want to look at a different boat.

 

[Britannia]

...
As others have mentioned, a boat that would be comfortable as a full time live aboard has features that wouldn't make it ideal for blue water crossings and visa versa...

I think it probably reduces the choices but doesn't eliminate the option. My Krogen 54 is quite capable of ocean crossing, and it is a fantastic live aboard. There are many other Krogens, Nordhavns, etc which fit the bill. The trade-off is that you don't get as much living space for the size of boat.

Even though I won't be retiring for another 8 years or so, I bought the boat I wanted to cruise on so that I could become very familiar with all aspects of her operation and maintenance. By the time I go cruising I hope to have had her out in most of the conditions I will experience and repaired/replaced most of the things that will break. I expect to be proven wrong on both counts of course!

Richard

 

[Kytra]

We didn't have any particularly rough conditions, just occasional 2-4 foot chop. The Elling did just fine and I never heard the owners complain about the ride.

Thanks for the feedback. I was wondering about roll.

 

[Bacchus]

Welcome aboard TF
Sounds like you have put some thought into your plans and needs / wants.

The only part I think may be a challenge would be to find a suitable boat that would be capable of canals and blue water crossings. I Would think - and admit I'm no expert on either ocean or European canals but have dome a lot of NY and Canadian canal travel - draft and air draft could be a problem accommodating both.

As others suggested you might consider a 2 step approach - canals / coastal for a few yrs and then think about blue water crossing capability. 1st step not only provides a more suitable boat for canals / coastal but also a learning experience to take on the next step.

Best of luck with the search and adventures.

 

[Hamrow]

Kytra, hey i'm fairly new here but somewhat qualified to respond to you because the wife & I have spent about 2.5 years downselecting and for the last about 8 months of the search, Elling I'd say was in our top three candidates! We even made a special trip to California then Seattle to get onboard a couple... though the 1st one we were on happened to be at a Trawlerfest event.
Its funny in America, Elling hasn't really caught on yet because as others have said, US is not as familiar and the layout is more like a sailboat. Ellings are very nice and though there is limited engine access; the tradeoff is that you get so much living space and a 3rd room that can either be an office or a bunk bed setup.
Bridge clearance is excellent and draft i think is about 4 feet so not bad for most cruising, plus the ocean safety is admirable (but i don't think the fuel capacity would do the Atlantic).
What also drew us to Elling was fuel burn is quite reasonable for the speed, plus if specs are right, noise levels inside should be pretty decent.
To be honest in the end we've decided not to do Elling and are focused on a Nordic or American tug for a few reasons, but for you in the UK an Elling certainly could be a decent choice. One positive for you is they're better known over there so your resale should be easier if you ever need to sell. As for our decision factors:
1. We both like a lot of light and large windows and wanted to see out from our salon a bit more
2. Elling engine:I know the side panels open up but i watched the broker use that large key to open the galley panel and i wondered if i wanted to have to work that hard every time i wanted access to the engine. Also, the insulation surrounding the engine on the one we looked at was degrading and it made me wonder how healthy is it to encapsulate that motor so tightly and does it dissipate heat adequately?
3. We decided we'd prefer to have side access doors in our pilot house. This may not be as important to you if those med-mooring docks are more common in your area.

Regardless i still think its a cool boat. Be aware (maybe you already know) around 2007, Elling responded to consumers requests and changed the helm station to angle the instruments up more towards the captain which i think was a good change. If you're looking at 10 yrs old then i'd say you're hitting the depreciation curve in a good spot.
Best of luck and let the forum know what you decide

 

[Tom.B]

Don't try too hard to get it perfect. Get it close... figure out what you like and don't like... then your next one will be even closer... maybe it will be perfect, maybe it won't, but you will have fun trying. Don't stress out fiding PERFECT because perfect doesn't exist. Go boating!

 

[BandB]

What boats did you charter and which did you spend 4 to 6 weeks on? I ask because the charters I'm use to in that size range generally have a lot more space than the Elling. I look at the main deck and flybridge. Of course the Elling doesn't have a flybridge. It also only has the space of a much smaller boat on the main deck. Now, you can go down and you pick up space. I would get very claustrophobic living on the Elling. I compare it to a similarly sized KK and I wouldn't feel nearly as confined on the KK. So, look carefully at the boats that seemed to work chartering and how the Elling compares.

 

[Kytra]

As others have mentioned, a boat that would be comfortable as a full time live aboard has features that wouldn't make it ideal for blue water crossings and visa versa. If you are thinking that you want to spend years on the boat before you think about an ocean crossing, I would put those abilities as a relatively low priority. If you then decide years down the road to make ocean crossings, you may want to look at a different boat.

Interesting tip, thanks. We will consider that option.

 

[Kytra]

Welcome aboard TF
Sounds like you have put some thought into your plans and needs / wants.

The only part I think may be a challenge would be to find a suitable boat that would be capable of canals and blue water crossings. I Would think - and admit I'm no expert on either ocean or European canals but have dome a lot of NY and Canadian canal travel - draft and air draft could be a problem accommodating both.

As others suggested you might consider a 2 step approach - canals / coastal for a few yrs and then think about blue water crossing capability. 1st step not only provides a more suitable boat for canals / coastal but also a learning experience to take on the next step.

Best of luck with the search and adventures.

Thanks Don

The Elling does have a collapsible radar arch giving a reduced air draft. I'm just a little concerned about the costs of aiming to buy 2 boats within a 10-15 year period.

 

[Kytra]

Regardless i still think its a cool boat. Be aware (maybe you already know) around 2007, Elling responded to consumers requests and changed the helm station to angle the instruments up more towards the captain which i think was a good change. If you're looking at 10 yrs old then i'd say you're hitting the depreciation curve in a good spot.
Best of luck and let the forum know what you decide

Very interesting & useful feedback, thanks.

I would very much prefer an engine room & twin engines, although everything else about the Elling we like. Resale value in the UK as you suggested does seem to be good - boats don't seem to hang around for sale & the support from the factory is excellent.

We do like the saloon below as it gives some privacy in the evenings. There is always the helm station for a sunny lunchtime or the cockpit some fresh air.

The UK brand of Trader (not Marine Trader) is quite popular in the UK as it gives an engine room & loads of space. However there are some build quality issues, the company has gone bust a few times & there are pages of them for sale - they seem to grow on trees. Many have been on sale for several years - which infers a good price is available, but also that they can be difficult to sell once purchased. The UK Trader was previously my favourite boat before I discovered the Elling.

The Elling is capable of an ocean crossing either with the addition of fuel drums in the cockpit (as seen on a recent Atlantic crossing) or Elling can install an additional fuel tank giving a total 3000 litre (800 US gals) capacity.

For me, the fuel efficiency of the Elling wins over a Trader. The more streamlined hull & lighter boat than a Trader gives 1 litre per NM. The Trader is double that.

I didn't know about the console, I will watch for that - thanks.

 

[Kytra]

What boats did you charter and which did you spend 4 to 6 weeks on? I ask because the charters I'm use to in that size range generally have a lot more space than the Elling. I look at the main deck and flybridge. Of course the Elling doesn't have a flybridge. It also only has the space of a much smaller boat on the main deck. Now, you can go down and you pick up space. I would get very claustrophobic living on the Elling. I compare it to a similarly sized KK and I wouldn't feel nearly as confined on the KK. So, look carefully at the boats that seemed to work chartering and how the Elling compares.

Good point. We usually chartered Haines offshore boats, sometimes Brooms. Usually 36 ft, sometimes 40 ft. Both sizes smaller than an Elling. We found the 40 ft a little large for us for a short term stay & never used the midships cabin. On the 36ft, we liked having several places to sit - saloon, dinette, flybridge. The less useful 40ft, had a saloon & larger flybridge - but with only 2 seating choices, it seemed restricting. The Elling has 3 places - a saloon, helm station & cockpit which we find is enough for the two of us.

 

[Peter B]

Hello

We're working to realise a life change which we've been planning for 5 years. The house is for sale & with the sale proceeds, we want to take semi retirement as liveaboard cruisers. We're currently selling our "stuff". We want a motorboat for the more comfortable living space, wife does not want a sailing boat.

We've been interested in an Elling E3 or E4. They seem to suit our requirements & have good safety features, good fuel consumption & sometimes also have a wing engine.
Requirements:
Suit 2 people, Fuel efficient, Cat A, Heating, a/c would be nice, fridge, freezer, Generator, Wife insists on a washing machine, 1 head - 2 heads a bonus, at least 2 cabins, Space for 2 computers, not longer than 50ft.
Approx budget: GBP 250k, Euro 295k, USD 325k

Thoughts & advice very welcome.

Here's an Elling E4:

Luxury Yacht Builders | Elling Yachts

I like these boats. I want one. Their clear link to sailing craft is a plus for me, having come out of yachts myself. And in terms of the different types of cruising grounds you are interested in, including open ocean one day, they fit the bill fine.

The living being mainly down is no hardship in the European region, especially UK, and it has a nice pilot house and readily accessed cockpit as well. That's a must, for sure. Just have a nice robust canopy to cover that when desired and you're good to go - anywhere - love it..!

 

[Hamrow]

I totally agree with having a canopy over the cockpit and most of them seem to come with it. Here is a comparison of the 2006 "Flat Console" versus a 2007 Angled Console:



Though on the much older ones you will see that some people took the flat panel and had someone modify it or build something very different there.

 

[Kytra]

I like these boats. I want one. Their clear link to sailing craft is a plus for me, having come out of yachts myself. And in terms of the different types of cruising grounds you are interested in, including open ocean one day, they fit the bill fine.

The living being mainly down is no hardship in the European region, especially UK, and it has a nice pilot house and readily accessed cockpit as well. That's a must, for sure. Just have a nice robust canopy to cover that when desired and you're good to go - anywhere - love it..!

Thanks for your message. I understand that the E4 has a canopy as standard. I agree it would be essential in the Med.

 

[Kytra]

I totally agree with having a canopy over the cockpit and most of them seem to come with it. Here is a comparison of the 2006 "Flat Console" versus a 2007 Angled Console:

Though on the much older ones you will see that some people took the flat panel and had someone modify it or build something very different there.

Very interesting - thanks. It's not a deal breaker for me, but very worthwhile considering. I'm certain that Elling would do an upgrade if asked. I have already spoken to them about installing a wing engine & converting the midships cabin to an office.

Note: The reason I've discussed upgrades with Elling themselves is for resale value & the fact that they already have the correct parts ready to fit. In fact, thinking about it, I could offer to buy the office joinery & fit it myself!