Ethical Question

[hmason]

I'm looking at the other side of the coin. You asked another boat owner in the marina if he would change slips so that you could buy a bigger boat. He told you no. Not a very nice guy in my opinion. So, you can be upset with him or he can be upset with you. I know what my choice would be.

The marina I am currently in reserves the right to move slips around whenever necessary. In fact, they just announced that 50 foot slips require a minimum boat size of 65 feet. This is displacing a number of boats to different slips.

The yacht club I belong to up north, in which every member owns an equal share, still reserves the right to change slips around to accommodate new members or members buying bigger boats. It is written into our bylaws and It happens frequently.

 

[ksanders]

If the OP wants to buy a bigger boat, Great!

But why should someone else have to sacrifice the slip they are in, and they like, just to support that.

The marina stands zero to gain financially as the 58 foot slip is being fully paid for. Therefore any forced slip swap, only benefits the person buying the larger boat.

how about the guy buys the bigger boat which he has not done yet, and then start looking for a slip. Perhaps he will need to change marinas. I did that. I bought my boat, no slips were available, and i knew it, so I moved to a different marina where they could accommodate my boat.

Yes there is fine print in the legal contracts but as posted above, there is also the human side of this. I get it we have all moved slips to allow for dock maintenance etc... but to be forced to move and to use the post above out of my three bedroom apt because my neighbor is planning a baby and wants more room... Not a chance.

 

[Jeff F]

The other guy is paying for his slip and might like it quite a bit. For example In La Paz I have the end slip in the marina, arguable the best slip in the marina with my own 10' wide fairway, and would be SUPER pissed if someone stole my slip.

I'd be pissed if it was done without cause, or because of favoritism or corruption by the authority, or if I had a contract that actually held them to providing a specific slip. That doesn't appear to be the OP's case

Regardless, my experience is that you're not likely to come out the winner in a dispute with the authority. So I'd either move cooperatively or find another marina in that situation.

 

[mmullins]

If the OP wants to buy a bigger boat, Great!

But why should someone else have to sacrifice the slip they are in, and they like, just to support that.

The marina stands zero to gain financially as the 58 foot slip is being fully paid for. Therefore any forced slip swap, only benefits the person buying the larger boat.

how about the guy buys the bigger boat which he has not done yet, and then start looking for a slip. Perhaps he will need to change marinas. I did that. I bought my boat, no slips were available, and i knew it, so I moved to a different marina where they could accommodate my boat.

Yes there is fine print in the legal contracts but as posted above, there is also the human side of this. I get it we have all moved slips to allow for dock maintenance etc... but to be forced to move and to use the post above out of my three bedroom apt because my neighbor is planning a baby and wants more room... Not a chance.

Kevin, it's funny, the boat I'm considering is a sistership to yours! Anyway, this possible scenario could happen: My slip is currently empty. I let it go because I can't find another boat to fit in it. We have a waiting list for the 6 large slips in our marina. The marina calls someone from the waiting list for the big slip and still moves the guy to my slip. Then I'm just out. Furthermore, if I don't want to displace the guy and find another marina with a big slip (not likely), what to I tell my marina manager? If I say I'm leaving because I found a big slip at another marina he's going to say, "but I was going to accommodate you?" It's the old damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. I've appreciated all the responses. I posted the same question on the Hatteras forum and have received similar answers. I guess boaters/people are all alike.

 

[O C Diver]

In fact, they just announced that 50 foot slips require a minimum boat size of 65 feet. This is displacing a number of boats to different slips.

I think you meant that the other way around. 65' slips require a 50' minimum boat.

Ted

 

[ksanders]

Kevin, it's funny, the boat I'm considering is a sistership to yours! Anyway, this possible scenario could happen: My slip is currently empty. I let it go because I can't find another boat to fit in it. We have a waiting list for the 6 large slips in our marina. The marina calls someone from the waiting list for the big slip and still moves the guy to my slip. Then I'm just out. Furthermore, if I don't want to displace the guy and find another marina with a big slip (not likely), what to I tell my marina manager? If I say I'm leaving because I found a big slip at another marina he's going to say, "but I was going to accommodate you?" It's the old damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. I've appreciated all the responses. I posted the same question on the Hatteras forum and have received similar answers. I guess boaters/people are all alike.

Yes you are in a bit of a pickle!. Also I do not think you did anything wrong by asking your neighbor to swap slips.

And... you clearly see both sides to this since you were enough up in the air to ask the question here. If my answers seem harsh, my apologies, I am just thinking how I would feel if I were in your neighbors shoes.

If you choose the 4788 you won't regret the decision. They are a great seaworthy boat, and are almost perfect for extended time aboard. don't know if you've followed, but we are in Southern California now, and are returning to Alaska next summer before turning tail to the north winds and heading south again.

 

[SteveK]

Someone had to pay for a 58 foot slip for how many years with a smaller boat, or even paid full fare and left it empty, why should they consider giving it up, the old saying, what's in it for me?
What if they are like the rest of us and may eventually get a bigger boat to fill the spot.

 

[psneeld]

First one with the bigger boat wins.

Even the manager thinks the guy who won't move is just a dock queen....buy a freakin' condo if you want a water view.

This is not a complex thing in the world of marinas.

 

[MYTraveler]

From my perspective, ethics requires only that one play by the rules. The marina is in business to make money, and a key part of that is keeping customer's happy. If their conclusion is that on balance their customers are happiest with the rule that allows you to get the bigger slip, no one should feel bad about that. My yacht club has a bunch of rules designed to balance individual interests against collective happiness. At my club, once you get your slip, it is yours. Most of our members prefer that approach.

 

[hmason]

I think you meant that the other way around. 65' slips require a 50' minimum boat.

Ted

No, 50' slip for 65' boat is correct. My boat is on that dock. Slip is 50' boat is 65'

 

[psneeld]

Some marinas only have short slips anyway and all boats stick out.

As demand goes up, creativity is paramount even if drivers aren't up to the task of narrow fairways and collisions are more frequent.

Not sure what will give first to make boating a lot less stressful.... like yesteryear.

 

[keith c]

To all the ,letter of the law, responders, this discussions title started with "Ethical". The marina management likely can move every boat in said marina around daily. The new guy can/will get the big slip but at a cost. When the party that was forced to move tells his story to every one of the boat neighbors the big slip guy will look small,petty, and like a world class .... Fill in the blank!

 

[psneeld]

To all the ,letter of the law, responders, this discussions title started with "Ethical". The marina management likely can move every boat in said marina around daily. The new guy can/will get the big slip but at a cost. When the party that was forced to move tells his story to every one of the boat neighbors the big slip guy will look small,petty, and like a world class .... Fill in the blank!

Not in my experience. Like many topics it's usually a mix of feelings, so both sides will get it's support and opposition. Sorta like the responses here.

 

[slowgoesit]

To all the ,letter of the law, responders, this discussions title started with "Ethical". The marina management likely can move every boat in said marina around daily. The new guy can/will get the big slip but at a cost. When the party that was forced to move tells his story to every one of the boat neighbors the big slip guy will look small,petty, and like a world class .... Fill in the blank!

In our experience, the new guy(guy with the new larger boat) will likely be complemented on his new boat by his new slip neighbors!
To me, it seems much more petty for the other guy who, although he is paying for the larger slip, is under utilizing the space available, and may be reason the OP can't buy his new, larger boat, because he may not have been able to find room for it elsewhere.
Geez people, painting the OP as a Bad Guy because he wants a larger boat is pretty (and to use your word) petty IMHO.

 

[Mac2]

In our experience, the new guy(guy with the new larger boat) will likely be complemented on his new boat by his new slip neighbors!
To me, it seems much more petty for the other guy who, although he is paying for the larger slip, is under utilizing the space available, and may be reason the OP can't buy his new, larger boat, because he may not have been able to find room for it elsewhere.
Geez people, painting the OP as a Bad Guy because he wants a larger boat is pretty (and to use your word) petty IMHO.

The OP asked for our opinion and we gave it. I don’t think that’s petty. The OPs decision to buy a bigger boat is going to affect someone else (if they make the neighbor move). The only question is weather this is fair or not. I’ve never seen anyone get moved from their slip because someone else bought a bigger boat. I was surprised to see that this is normal in other parts of the world. If it is normal for the OPs marina, then yes, it’s ethical. My only question would be why you asked the guy to switch to begin with? Tell the manager you got a bigger boat and let them shuffle the entire marina around, like they do every time someone buys a bigger or smaller boat, right?

 

[SteveK]

we never did hear from the other guy with short boat in a long slip.
I will stand by my petty statement if the guy is paying for slip length and not boat length then he should not have to move for any reason unless he agrees.

 

[psneeld]

If the shorter boat doesn't move, the OP may leave/may have to leave the marina. If the OP is a good customer, the marina would be foolish not to make the slip swap or wind up with an empty slip at least for awhile.

Even if there is a waiting list, all the more reason for marinas to be able to swap slips to let EVERYONE possible have a suitable slip.

What I don't know and it could change my mind is the safety aspect of whether or not the marina allows boats longer than slips to stay in that slip. If not the swap makes perfect sense. The manager already has basically said that the swap will happen if the OP buys the boat.

 

[Seevee]

Read a lot of the answers and the way I see this problem is that it has two different answers. One is a legal answer, the other is a social answer.
The legal answer is that the marina owns the slips, so they decide who goes where, no matter who pays for what.
However, in marinas there is also a social side to boating, it is not just purely legal. I have been in marinas where there is a complete social life amongst the neighbors. They eat and drink together, help eachother, look after eachtother's boats etc etc.
Sure you have the right to his slip if the marina decides to change the two of you. But I can almost guarantee you that your stay in the marina is not going to be pleasant anymore. You will get two camps and I would not be surprised if that is going to escalate. I would not be surprised if you find your shore power plugged out, shore lines released etc etc Question is if you want to have that happen ?
So what would I do ?
Since you bypassed the marina the damage is already done, the owner of that slip already told you he does not want to move, so if he is forced to move there will be problems. So I would ask the marina if there is a different slip available and if not I would perhaps start looking at a different marina.

Totally agree. I could argue to approach the marina manager first as he controls the docks.

And if someone has a lease to a specific slip, it's there's and even the manager can't move him.

 

[psneeld]

I think many slip leases are general in nature and you are assigned a slip based on many factors, but the agreement doesn't preclude the management from moving customers around. At least at many marinas I have been a customer.

If a slip agreement specifically mentions a particular slip that is guaranteed, then no the management can't move slipholders around without a real important reason..

 

[BruceK]

Actually, the owner just bought his current boat last year. A little more information; he's keeping a 38' foot boat in a 58' slip. He likes his slip because his buddy is in the slip next to him. The two of them together don't use their boats as much in a year as I do in a month. The manager's view is, I'm buying fuel, using the store etc. The other guys are just taking up slips. Though, to their credit, they are paying their rent.

I got moved without warning from a too large slip, but it was to one where we were separated from the neighbor by a compressed fender. We left.
In your case, the Marina needs to produce good income, it`s not doing that with a 38ft boat in a 58ft slip. It`s the Marina`s call and I suggest you accept. The friendship between the 2 boats a slip apart should survive. They might not chat with you for a while but that`s secondary.

 

[rslifkin]

I think many slip leases are general in nature and you are assigned a slip based on many factors, but the agreement doesn't preclude the management from moving customers around. At least at many marinas I have been a customer.

If a slip agreement specifically mentions a particular slip that is guaranteed, then no the management can't move slipholders around without a real important reason..

Exactly. And in the second case they can usually still move someone when renewal time comes around.