Epoch Lithium 920ah with Victron comms demonstrated

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Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
1,104
Location
New Port Richey, Fl
Vessel Name
M/V Intrigue
Vessel Make
1985 Tung Hwa Senator
These batteries are fairly new. I was waiting on a final cable to arrive before I could properly test them. Now that I have the final piece I was able to daisy chain the batteries properly so the Victron system could see them. After several weeks on the bench I finally think I have a good feel for the operation and use of this system. The way its set up now the Epoch will control charging, but you can regulate the SOC by manually lowering the "max charge voltage" in the Cerbo under DVCC settings. That way if you are away from the boat and on shore power you can maintain 70% SOC if you want to. Anyways I thought I would share this.
https://youtu.be/pIXSKpi-TRo
 
Very good info.
Thanks for sharing :)
 
Thanks for that. Looks like they are close to releasing a 300Ah at $1199. For all the features that is a great value. Love the simplicity and flexibility with the Victron Comms.
 
Thanks for that. Looks like they are close to releasing a 300Ah at $1199. For all the features that is a great value. Love the simplicity and flexibility with the Victron Comms.

Now rhat I have a decent understanding between the two methods, the Victron comms does greatly simplify things. However I am still glad to have the smart shunt to compare. And if its ever needed, to control.

About two weeks ago they had the 460ah units on sale for $1599. Pretty good.
 
Check this out. Ben Stein of Panbo just took one apart and found there is already a class T fuse INSIDE the battery. This is something I have never even thought of and IMO is significant. The cost to add that feature is not trivial. IMO this makes this drop in one of the best on the market for the Marine world. I know I feel better about it.

 
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Will Prowse just reviewed the Epoch 12v/460AH battery and gives it high praise. $2k. He addresses the cost as not being the cheapest in the market (400ah server rack batteries can be had for $1200 or so) but definitely likes the build quality and features, which are impressive. While Prowe mentions the T-Fuse, the Panbo video explains the importance as it now meets ABYC requirement of circuit protection within 7-inches of load source which carries meaningful cost in terms of money and space. Prowse also notes the robust bus bars making the internal connections.

Impressive features. To me, these batteries show a clear evolution past energy storage and into energy management. The reasons to go LFP are expanding.

These are apparently similar in size as 8D batteries and weigh 100 lbs.

https://youtu.be/GxeVQg-X4Ys?feature=shared

I'm jealous......

Peter
 
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Yes..it tested 10ah over stated capacity. I ordered two spare class T fuses of the same p/n that arrived yesterday. They were around $40 each.

You know Will likes a battery when he refuses to tear it to pieces..lol. You can tell he did not want to pull it apart at all.

On the price they are still a bargain for such a high quality highly engineered unit. You have to consider the class T fuse and holder and additional terminals/wire is nearly $200, which you no longer
need. And they do have sales often. Currently they are having a sale for the holidays with a very good 15% off. That puts these batterries at $1699 which is a great deal.

When that goes away. Epoch just gave me a 10% code because of the videos I made. The code is Mvintrigue and is good for 10%. That will make these batterries $1799, and that code should be good for a while.

I took a chance on this brand a couple of years ago with my 36v golf cart batt based on the fact that they seemed to be a clean sheet engineering effort instead of just buying cells, bms, and case and hand assembling whatever parts they aquired. I think we will see this more the norm in the future. Believe it or not Renogy has a new line of batteries that appear to be manufactured in the same way but I have seen no reviews yet.

I am still testing mine on the bench. I just did a stress test discharging them to 0% soc while drawing 150 amps. The Multiplus II inverter shut down at a preset voltage, but the batteries never shut down. I had to run a 12 volt fan for another dozen hours to get the batteries to shut down. At that point the batts energy meters and on/off switch was still lit. Opening the app still brought up batt info too. The charge mosfet was still on but the discharge mosfet was shut off at 11.1 volts if I remember right. And of course all of this was shown on the Victron touch 50 as fed from the Cerbo gx.

Pretty happy with them and cant wait to get them in the boat.
 
These are certainly looking good. Unless something better comes along between now and my next battery replacement / upgrade, I expect I'll be going for either the 460ah units shown here or their similar, but less waterproof 300ah units (likely 2 of the 460s or 3 of the 300s), but final choice and quantity depends on what I figure out for placement and mounting.
 
These are certainly looking good. Unless something better comes along between now and my next battery replacement / upgrade, I expect I'll be going for either the 460ah units shown here or their similar, but less waterproof 300ah units (likely 2 of the 460s or 3 of the 300s), but final choice and quantity depends on what I figure out for placement and mounting.

There should be a 300ah version of the 460 marine unit coming out very soon as well. I also have 2 of the 300ah Essential black ones. They appear to use a JBD BMS. But I cant yet get them to daisy chain for the Victron FYI. I need to hook those back to the Victron and try a few things.
 
There should be a 300ah version of the 460 marine unit coming out very soon as well. I also have 2 of the 300ah Essential black ones. They appear to use a JBD BMS. But I cant yet get them to daisy chain for the Victron FYI. I need to hook those back to the Victron and try a few things.

Fortunately I'm in no rush to get this figured out, so I've got time to wait for a few improvements, reviews, etc. I'll have to see how the size/shape of the 300ah marine units compares to determine what will fit best.
 
Just to verify, if I use one of these in a Victron system with the Victron comms, I don't need the Victron VE.Bus BMS, correct? It will use it's own BMS.
BD
 
Correct. They now have a 460 v2 with some updates.
Thank you! But I do need the Cerbo for the MultiPlus II to communicate with the BMS? Or is that optional?
 
Thank you! But I do need the Cerbo for the MultiPlus II to communicate with the BMS? Or is that optional?
As far as I know, yes. The communication relies on having a Cerbo or other GX device in the system. It's a very useful addition for other reasons as well though, as it gives a lot more monitoring capability (including use of Victron's free remote monitoring portal if you have internet available to the Cerbo). And it has inputs for things like temperature sensors, bilge alarms, etc. that can be monitored remotely.
 
That's great. I'm intending to add it, but there are a lot of components in the ecosystem and I was hoping to do some of this in stages. Sounds like that's part of stage 1.

Thanks for the info!
BD
 
You can do it in stages. You could just run a Multiplus with basic charger profiles programmed in and not make use of comms, then add a cerbo later and make use of comms. The basic charge profiles of the 460v2 are 14.1 or 14.2 absorption and 13.4 or 13.5 float. Keep in mind, CAN communication from the battery to Cerbo for charge control is simple, but you can always accomplish essentially the same thing with standard Victron programming as well as programming of all charge sources to the same parameters. CAN comms are not essential. Nice to have, but not absolutely essential.
 
You can do it in stages. You could just run a Multiplus with basic charger profiles programmed in and not make use of comms, then add a cerbo later and make use of comms. The basic charge profiles of the 460v2 are 14.1 or 14.2 absorption and 13.4 or 13.5 float. Keep in mind, CAN communication from the battery to Cerbo for charge control is simple, but you can always accomplish essentially the same thing with standard Victron programming as well as programming of all charge sources to the same parameters. CAN comms are not essential. Nice to have, but not absolutely essential.
The more I think about this, I'll buy the Cerbo first! I already have 2 Victron smart shunts on my FLA system. The Cerbo is affordable, and I can get familiar with the system with the shunts connected. And as rslifkin points out, it might be nice to have the remote monitoring too.
BD
 
I struggle with Victron threads, especially with Cerbo recommendations. I'm not a power user yet I quickly ran out of comm ports on my Cerbo which is total BS in my opinion. Their Bluetooth range is awful - my $60 earbuds have better BT range. And I've found their Wifi connectivity is a bit glitchy but my lack of patience doesn't help.

Victron architecture seemingly has two guiding principles: First, instead of re-architect from time to time, just bolt-on a workaround. Second, sell an endless supply of cables, adapters, doo-dads and boxes. Reminds me of the first home security system I installed 25-years ago compared to truly plug and play systems of today (which are a fraction of the cost).

Rant over. I hope your addition of Cerbo goes better than mine did.

Peter
 
I'm sorry you have that experience. One of the reasons I'm enthusiastic about this is because of my experience with the Bluetooth battery monitor shunts. I can always connect to them no matter where I am on boat, and that impressed me. Heck I see devices (available, I can't log into them) from 3 or 4 boats away in the app.

I agree about the business model - it's overwhelming how many pieces you need (do I really need a powered, monitored busbar?). But OTOH, the remote monitoring site is free, which is something most would be nickle and diming us for. I hope my luck continues, but your experience seems a very possible outcome too.

BD
 
I agree with Peter that Victron's product line lacks cohesion. Products seem to solve 90% of the problem, and buying another product to fill the 10% gap leaves a different 10% gap somewhere else. They are also geared towards smaller boats and RVs. Between bluetooth, and cable length limits on ve.direct, it can be quite difficult to make it all work on a larger boat. And the fact that Peter has trouble on a 36' boat speaks volumes.

The good part is that Victron is actively evolving their product line, adding features, and slowly fixing issues. That can't be said about many power systems companies who seem to be asleep or dead at the wheel, and showing red over red.
 
I struggle with Victron threads, especially with Cerbo recommendations. I'm not a power user yet I quickly ran out of comm ports on my Cerbo which is total BS in my opinion. Their Bluetooth range is awful - my $60 earbuds have better BT range. And I've found their Wifi connectivity is a bit glitchy but my lack of patience doesn't help.

Victron architecture seemingly has two guiding principles: First, instead of re-architect from time to time, just bolt-on a workaround. Second, sell an endless supply of cables, adapters, doo-dads and boxes. Reminds me of the first home security system I installed 25-years ago compared to truly plug and play systems of today (which are a fraction of the cost).

Rant over. I hope your addition of Cerbo goes better than mine did.

Peter
I've never used the Bluetooth on my Cerbo, but the WiFi on it has been solid. I do wish they'd include more ports for a few things, but for the most part it's workable. There's definitely a shortage of VE.Direct ports, but those are expandable via USB. Architecture wise, I think Victron expects large systems with lots of pieces will be making more use of the big VE.Can MPPTs, etc. and not need a ton of VE.Direct ports. And outside of marine applications, they're probably correct.

For marine use, a GX device that keeps the features of the Cerbo, but with maybe 6 VE.Direct ports and a few more digital and tank sensor inputs would be nice. Say, 8 of each instead of 4. In the interest of physical size/space, the 4 temperature inputs is probably adequate.
 

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