Epoch 460AH V2-T Pre-Sale- delivery ETA March 15th

[Barking Sands]

The Epoch 460AH V2-T will have a standard Eaton class T 400 amp fuse mounted in an accessible area on the top of the battery covered in an IP67 cover. It will come with a 400 amp fuse but if you need to change it you can purchase a standard class-T fuse in the rating you need and install it. This will greatly simplify the new ABYC requirements. IMO this will be by far the safest marine battery on the market with 3 levels of protection. A very fast BMS that will disconnect via a short circuit in just a few milliseconds, a 400 amp Set fuse that can be blown via the BMS, including the ability to be blown by the BMS in a failsafe manner should the BMS fail, and a 400 amp Eaton class-T fuse (or amp rating of the customers choosing) for standard overcurrent protection and to meet AIC ratings* as well as wire protection requirements.

In addition, Epoch will be launching a new app with more functionality and more stable link up. This app will be for all V2 batteries. It will still display multiple batteries and be capable of OTA updates. I have already done OTA updates with the new app and its much faster as well.

The V2-T can be added and linked to existing model V2's for use in daisy chaining comms and Victron communication.

All V2-T will come with firmware V3.0 that has all the features of V2.9 but with additional cold weather charging tweaks.

*ABYC E-11.10.1.3.2.1 specifies the AIC of a fuse must be at least as great as the battery manufacturer’s short circuit current rating. If that rating isn’t available, E-11.10.1.3.2.2 dictates that for lithium-ion batteries, the AIC of the fuse must be 5k amps per 100 amp hours of capacity, up to a fuse rating of 20k amps. Fuses with an AIC greater than 20k amps are not widely available in the marine marketplace. So, in cases where the 5,000 AIC per 100 ah of capacity formula calls for more than 20,000 AIC, a 20,000 AIC rated fuse is with its AIC rating calculated at 125v is specified. In a note on 11.10.1.3.2.3, the ABYC notes that typically AIC ratings decrease as rating voltage increases. So, a fuse rated at 125 VDC will have a higher AIC at 12v.

The price for the V2-T remains the same $2199 with an ETA of March 15th. LFPexperts.com will be getting these for final testing in late January (we consult and test for Epoch). LFPexperts.com will be taking preorders soon, details to follow. Please note that LFPexperts.com played a critical role in the firmware development, class-T implementation and other design choices. No one knows the V2 and V2-T like we do! So you can count on full support from LFPexpert.com team.

As always, any questions feel free to ask.

Al Jones

 

[luna]

E-11.10.1.3.2.2 dictates that for lithium-ion batteries, the AIC of the fuse must be 5k amps per 100 amp hours of capacity, up to a fuse rating of 20k amps.

As always, any questions feel free to ask.

Al Jones

I have read through Ben's review of the new E-11 and had not seen this "up to a fuse rating of 20kA" clause mentioned.

Can you kindly post the relevant clauses from ABYC that support this 20kA limit, regardless of bank size?

 

[Barking Sands]

I have read through Ben's review of the new E-11 and had not seen this "up to a fuse rating of 20kA" clause mentioned.

Can you kindly post the relevant clauses from ABYC that support this 20kA limit, regardless of bank size?

Ben wrote that asterisk item. It is derived from the standard below. There has been quite a bit of misinterpretation around how they wrote it. But generally covered here

 

[rslifkin]

This might be a bit too much to ask, but how about a conversion kit for existing V2s with a new top lid and related parts that can be swapped on?

 

[Barking Sands]

Rob, unfortunately its more than just the lid and fuse. It is my understanding some of the guts are rearranged to fit the fuse.

 

[rslifkin]

Rob, unfortunately its more than just the lid and fuse. It is my understanding some of the guts are rearranged to fit the fuse.

I figured that was the case. It would just bug me in concept if I ever add a third to have a V2-T sitting next to a pair of regular V2s. Unless the original version is going to stick around as well.

 

[Barking Sands]

I figured that was the case. It would just bug me in concept if I ever add a third to have a V2-T sitting next to a pair of regular V2s. Unless the original version is going to stick around as well.

Well..with the T models you might watch for a price reduction in the regular v2 and snatch one up. I will keep my eyes open and let you know if I can facilitate that.

 

[Barking Sands]

It looks like LFPexperts.com will be able to secure an exclusive discount and have access to the first shipments of these batteries. We will open up pre-orders soon. Details to follow.

 

[eheffa]

…

In addition, Epoch will be launching a new app with more functionality and more stable link up. This app will be for all V2 batteries. It will still display multiple batteries and be capable of OTA updates. I have already done OTA updates with the new app and its much faster as well.

…

As always, any questions feel free to ask.

Al Jones

Hi Al,

As a very happy Epoch 460 V1 user, I would welcome a better App.

The original app recognized that my batteries’ real capacity were higher than spec. (480Ah each). The current app version though does not show this extra capacity. This is really only a small quibble as I do rely on the more accurate Victron shunt for true SOC readings.

Do you know if the new App will recognize the true rather than nominal capacity of our batteries?

-Evan

 

[Frosty]

Hi Al,

As a very happy Epoch 460 V1 user, I would welcome a better App.

I'm not Al, but a good friend bought a 460ah Epoch Essential battery. He downloaded and is using the Overkill app, which shows a lot more info and which he vastly prefers.
Just an option for you to try if you'd like. I'm assuming it would also work on the Elite but I don't know for sure.

 

[Barking Sands]

Hi Al,

As a very happy Epoch 460 V1 user, I would welcome a better App.

The original app recognized that my batteries’ real capacity were higher than spec. (480Ah each). The current app version though does not show this extra capacity. This is really only a small quibble as I do rely on the more accurate Victron shunt for true SOC readings.

Do you know if the new App will recognize the true rather than nominal capacity of our batteries?

-Evan

Hello Evan. Next time I am in the shop I will check that. But keep in mind that capacity line is about as accurate as SOC..lol. I had one V1 that showed 458 and the other showed 472 or so. Neither were accurate to that level. And this is not an Epoch thing, its a shunt thing.

Here is a video capacity testing a Vatrer battery and directly referencing those pieces of data during the course of an actual discharge capacity test. Dont worry I wont make you watch the whole boring thing. Its queued up to the correct spot. You will see in this video that SOC will reach 0% and the AH counter will reach 0/300 and the battery continues to provide power for quite some time. So take those numbers, along with SOC with a grain of salt since they are not a true reflection of reality. Just a halfway decent estimate. As such the V2 Elite now just uses a preset 460/460 and models the tracking off that rough estimate.

 

[DDW]

I don't think Overkill works with the Elite. One of the reasons I went with the Essentials. The Epoch app has one big advantage, that is it aggregates your batteries into a bank, also it is better at reconnecting. But the level of visibility and control is very much lacking compared to the Overkill app.

 

[Barking Sands]

I don't think Overkill works with the Elite. One of the reasons I went with the Essentials. The Epoch app has one big advantage, that is it aggregates your batteries into a bank, also it is better at reconnecting. But the level of visibility and control is very much lacking compared to the Overkill app.

Right on. The OKS does many things, but easy viewing of basic info isnt one of them. The Epoch app is the best at displaying multiple batteries that I have seen. For that reason, I use the basic Epoch app daily, but the OKS app when I want to investigate some detail further or look at programmed parameters.

Its good to have multiple apps. People have opinions on what they like an app to looks like.

I remember DDW hated the Epoch app. It looks like he softened just a tad lol

 

[DDW]

For a quick peek at the batteries, the Epoch app works well. It seems to remember and reconnect, and doesn't show every BLE device in the neighborhood. You get the top line data - voltage, cell voltage spread, current. For an in depth look - well, the Epoch just doesn't give you that. Overkill gives you a lot, but doesn't remember the batteries, gives you a choice of batteries, the door locks, the Cerbo, the state of the air bags on my truck - any BLE device in range. And can connect to only one battery at a time. What the Epoch needs is an Advanced and Expert mode.

 

[eheffa]

Hello Evan. Next time I am in the shop I will check that. But keep in mind that capacity lines about as accurate as SOC..lol. I had one V1 that showed 458 and the other showed 472 or so. Neither were accurate to that level. And this is not an Epoch thing, its a shunt thing.

Here is a video capacity testing a Vatrer battery and directly referencing those pieces of data during the course of an actual discharge capacity test. Dont worry I wont make you watch the whole boring thing. Its queued up to the correct spot. You will see in this video that SOC will reach 0% and the AH counter will reach 0/300 and the battery continues to provide power for quite some time. So take those numbers, along with SOC with a grain of salt since they are not a true reflection of reality. Just a halfway decent estimate. As such the V2 Elite now just uses a preset 460/460 and models the tracking off that rough estimate.

I'm not Al, but a good friend bought a 460ah Epoch Essential battery. He downloaded and is using the Overkill app, which shows a lot more info and which he vastly prefers.
Just an option for you to try if you'd like. I'm assuming it would also work on the Elite but I don't know for sure.

Hi.

That app is not working with my V1 Epoch’s.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[eheffa]

Hello Evan. Next time I am in the shop I will check that. But keep in mind that capacity line is about as accurate as SOC..lol. I had one V1 that showed 458 and the other showed 472 or so. Neither were accurate to that level. And this is not an Epoch thing, its a shunt thing.

Here is a video capacity testing a Vatrer battery and directly referencing those pieces of data during the course of an actual discharge capacity test. Dont worry I wont make you watch the whole boring thing. Its queued up to the correct spot. You will see in this video that SOC will reach 0% and the AH counter will reach 0/300 and the battery continues to provide power for quite some time. So take those numbers, along with SOC with a grain of salt since they are not a true reflection of reality. Just a halfway decent estimate. As such the V2 Elite now just uses a preset 460/460 and models the tracking off that rough estimate.

Thanks.

Yes; neither the Epoch app or the Victron shunt are totally accurate.
I try to stay away from the extremes of either overcharging or depleting the Epoch’s too low. With ~ 960 Ah of capacities have plenty of flexibility & capacity.

 

[Frosty]

Thanks.

Yes; neither the Epoch app or the Victron shunt are totally accurate.

That surprises me somewhat. Now I don't know specifically about Epoch's app, but with certain other brand batteries (eg Lithionics) the built in SOC counter has a higher threshhold for what it will "count" as a draw. Meaning if you have small loads they can slip past so the SOC drifts a bit more. But the Victron BMV sis pretty granular, and hence the SOC seems pretty accurate.

Now that said, there are a few settings you need to make on the BMV (which you may have made but I can't know - but just holler if you want any help) to make it as accurate as possible. Personally, I also manually sync it to 100% on days/times when I KNOW it's full (say it's just gone from absorb to float). That keeps it even more in line.

So in short, I would think you could make the Victron quite accurate.

PS: Sorry for the suggestion of the Overkill app when I now know it doesn't work with the Elites.

 

[DDW]

Any coulomb counter has sources of inaccuracy that are hard to comp out. There can be a small offset in the voltmeter reading the shunt, and there always has to be a dead band for very low readings. And the BMS will self-consume. Over a week or two not enough accumulated error to worry about, but the longer it sits, the more the error. My three 300AH Epochs have been sitting now for 2+ months maintained at 13.2V. The BMS thinks they are drifting down slightly in SOC, and the Victron Smartshunt thinks they are drifitng up in SOC. Neither is drifting very fast. SOC really is a fairly useless metric.

 

[SeaGator]

Epoch has had too many snafus and issues for me to even consider at the moment. I'm sticking with Li Time for now. It's one of the few with no reported issues) as of yet). Battle Born, Epoch, WattsCycle and others have all had issues.

 

[READY]

I like and use LiTime but also recently purchased Epoch 24V 230AH and they are impressive. The integration with Victron DVCC is a game changer. Having an on/off switch is helpful. I think Epoch is a very viable option.

Now that batteries are another device with firmware/software I think innovation will result in the need to download updates. Some may consider this an issue while others may see it as a benefit.

It would be great if Epoch and all battery vendors could leverage the Victron system for updates. It looks at all connected victron devices, checks online for updates and then if you ok it, does the updates. Currently Epoch requires another app.

 

[rslifkin]

I agree with Ready's assessment. I've had a pair of the 12V / 460AH Epoch Elite V2 batteries on my boat since early June 2025 and so far I've been very happy with them. They work nicely with the Victron gear and generally just do exactly what they're supposed to.

 

[SeaGator]

FYI, Li Time now has their 5.0 series out which can communicate with Victron but also Xantrex and others. It is also programmable. YouTube Will Prowse and others that are having issues with Epoch. I'd let them work out the current kinks before investing in them. For those who already have them, Ben Stein (Panbo) and others are working with Epoch to correct the issues and then they should be okay, and owners can download the patches. Meanwhile LiTime is the safest bet.

 

[DDW]

Well to be fair, Epoch had one problem with updating the V1 Elite batteries. Which they fixed some time ago. If you search for LiTime problems you can find them as well.

 

[Frosty]

@DDW,

Agree. I don't have Epoch batteries, so I could be wrong, but the only two problems I remember are both over and done with AFAIK.

One was the discovery of FCP (full charge protection) which some folks on Panbo figured out how to work around. But since @Barking Sands and co. have been working with them, I believe they have removed that from the batteries (this was just appearing as a "mystery" when my buddy was choosing batteries so we avoided them, but they would be a contender now).

The other was the software update issue, which did seem to be a bit offputting. But I think that's also well in the past now.

So if everything else checked out, I would actually consider those two issues as almost good signs. I mean not that they happened - that sucked; but that they took measures to deal with them and eliminated the problems. And they are listening to a set of good dealers about what people really want (such as the new, replaceable Class T fuse inside the Elite).

@SeaGator Unless you are speaking of a really recent Will Prowse video about a different issue I don't know about.

 

[Frosty]

Any coulomb counter has sources of inaccuracy that are hard to comp out. ...SOC really is a fairly useless metric.

I agree on both counts. Tho that said I do use the SOC as a "reasonable quick glance" metric. But as mentioned above, I'll hit a quick manual reset to 100% on any day where I'm around and thinking about it when the batteries are full (so anytime between when absorb finishes and they go into float, or in the early float stage when I know they are still full). That keeps it honest and usable at a quick glance and is no great burden.

Of course the other thing is: Does your battery bank still contain the number of amp hours that you programmed into the BMV as "full." (And did you program in the correct capacity in the first place.) That can be checked by doing a drain/re-charge but with LFP I would think they would stay pretty close (unlike my old AGM's where I reduced the number of amp hours annually just on principal).

I just use it as a general guideline.

PS: One other thing I noticed: IIRC, the setup guidelines mentioned setting the "charged voltage" setting to something like 13.2. I set mine at 14.1v (.1v below the absorption voltage setting). This seems to work well. I think I read a note somewhere that recommended this for mostly solar charging.

 

[Barking Sands]

Epoch has had too many snafus and issues for me to even consider at the moment. I'm sticking with Li Time for now. It's one of the few with no reported issues) as of yet). Battle Born, Epoch, WattsCycle and others have all had issues.

LiTime has issues. About half or more of their models have Full Charge Protection, which has been covered extensively here. One of the worst examples of a recent LiTime catastrophe was over on Cruisersforum.com titles "Arco Zues destroyed my Victron". He was using LiTime 560ah batteries X 2 that had undisclosed presence of FCP. Of course since FCP was undisclosed the owner had no idea of when FCP would kick in and the alternator was just bouncing off FCP and subsequent charge mosfet shutdown time and time again while underway. Eventually the toll was extensive. Post 128 is where the lights went on for the OP with the help of my partners Ben Stein and Andre Cormier.

Arco Zeus destroyed my Victron Inverter - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

This is a report in progress, so I don't have all the details yet. I've been working on a new LFP install since the spring -- lots of details, most of them irrelevant to this. Pre-existing was a

www.cruisersforum.com

Having FCP can be dealt with, but I would not purchase a battery unless it was confirmed not to have FCP. Epoch first Marine version had FCP and learned a lesson quickly. All subsequent models do not have FCP. From what I can see about 50-70% of LiTime models have FCP. Just go to the LiTime forums and read and you will see all the LiTime owners complaining of odd discharge issues and LiTime claiming its normal.

In addition, the new LiTime with comms should be tested. I can tell you that most BMS engineers in China have no idea what we do with these batteries on our boats and as such have no idea how to set them up to work properly. Many batteries claim to have "Victron Comms" but I would say that 90% or more do not actually work. Many users of batteries with Victron comms dont even know they dont work...lol.
I spent a great deal of time and effort directing the current V2 charge algorithms for the Victron comms. And subsequently the balancing.

I have also been privy to other manufactures misunderstanding on how the Victron system should work. For instance, I was recently approached by SOK with their new 314ah "Victron comm" ready battery. The orange and gray one. Its a nice battery with the exception that the Victron BMS control portion does not work well..or really at all. They also claim NMEA2k out and sent me the NMEA2k cable for testing. So far, I can't get any NMEA2K data to the Garmin. But worse the Victron comms dont work well. It does report data well, but BMS controlled charging is essentially non-existent. The CVL is locked at 13.8 volts. This has the effect, when setting the SOK to "controlling bms" in cerbo for all Victron charge sources to charge to 13.8 volts and just park there. No float. Just 13.8 forever. It could be worse, but its far from ideal and IMO shows what they dont know. In my conversations with SOK it was clear they were happy with that and not open to additional information.

There are other manufactures I have dealt with as well. It is clear in communications I have had as well as being in the front row with other communications direct with China that they really do not understand what the goal is with Victron BMS control. To them all interactions between a charger and a battery are exactly like a golf cart. Plug in the charger, charge to maximum capacity, disconnect the charger and use the battery. When done plug the charger back in and repeat. This is the world in which FCP makes sense. This is the world where a BMS controlling a Victron system uses CCL (charge current limit broadcast to Victron) as its primary control in stopping the charge in a similar fashion to FCP. If you look around at other "Victron" capable batteries, you will see these kinds of things.

So far, I only know of 4 batteries that work correctly with Victron comms. Victron and Epoch V2 being 2 of them. There are other options if you want to build your own or buy a kit style battery.

So before anyone springs for a LiTime with Victrom comms, be absolutely certain that FCP is no longer present, and the comms actually work to control the charge cycles in a seamless manner without using CCL or FCP.

I can tell you that there are no current issues with Epoch batteries. Epoch, myself and Ben Stein have worked hard for the last 8 or 9 months to fine tune these batteries and to make improvements with the Victron Comms, balancing, and cold weather charging. And Ben and I are both boaters/campers and have pushed hard for various things to happen in the way we wanted them to happen including the T class fuse. And the owner of Epoch is committed to getting things right and making regular improvements.

I can also say, after the class T models come out, which will all have V3.0, there will be very little to tweak or change for the foreseeable future. There are some minor tweaks for Victron data or app improvements or requests, but nothing major. Same goes for the regular V2 batteries once updated to 3.0.

 

[JackConnick]

Alan; are the SFK batteries with their own Victron driver among the other batteries that have good comms? Nearly every facet seems to be monitored and adjustable. US built and pretty responsive to my inquiries and questions so far. They are coming out with a 345ah version in the same form factor of the 315 too.

 

[Barking Sands]

Alan; are the SFK batteries with their own Victron driver among the other batteries that have good comms? Nearly every facet seems to be monitored and adjustable. US built and pretty responsive to my inquiries and questions so far. They are coming out with a 345ah version in the same form factor of the 315 too.

Yes. SFK, EEL is a kit and in Europe...Roamer. There are some limitations though, and I dont know all the details. So there could be some issues on these I am not aware of.

 

[DDW]

One metric to look at when evaluating batteries is, what does their specification look like? OK, none of them are what you would wish for, but some, like the LiTime and Ecoworthy are remarkably thin for a complex device. If you are lucky you get nominal voltage, max charge and discharge. Some go as far as listing disconnect times at a couple of overcurrent conditions. This sort of spec would be OK for a dead dumb LA battery but is totally inadequate for what these things are. Especially when you start looking at serial com from them. The Epoch documentation is better than most, but could be greatly improved with little effort.

 

[Barking Sands]

One metric to look at when evaluating batteries is, what does their specification look like? OK, none of them are what you would wish for, but some, like the LiTime and Ecoworthy are remarkably thin for a complex device. If you are lucky you get nominal voltage, max charge and discharge. Some go as far as listing disconnect times at a couple of overcurrent conditions. This sort of spec would be OK for a dead dumb LA battery but is totally inadequate for what these things are. Especially when you start looking at serial com from them. The Epoch documentation is better than most, but could be greatly improved with little effort.

Documentation is something we are working on.

One thing you will see soon is real current ratings.

We intend to set a standard for current ratings. At the moment, current ratings are a mishmash of cell ratings and BMS ratings and they often conflict within the same document. But there are no assembled battery real world ratings that carry any useful data. And even when ratings are present, they are typically a shot in the dark for accuracy or even legitimacy.

We had to order approximately $25k worth of test equipment to handle these charge and discharge tests. I dont want to give too much away and protocols are not set yet. But we would like to create a standardized method that could be used industry wide and maybe shed light on a parameter that is at best, ill defined and at worst, an outright lie.

And I dont mean set a standard as in a particular battery will be the best, I mean set a standard measuring stick so that when a fully assembled battery is tested to this standard you can more properly design a system and know its expected behavior. Things are not great in this area at the moment.