Electrical Projects and Logical Stopping Points

[UrsusMaritimus]

If, like me, you've got an older boat that's been through several changes of hands, you likely can peel back the layers and see the different work styles of the various owners. They typically range from original install, to pretty good, to a total cluster. I'm curious about your experiences and where you choose to stop when you're doing new work.

My boat recently got a new electrical panel, and, by ABYC rules the AC panel should be separated from DC with a protective cover fastened by mechanical means. That's easy enough to do with the new panel, but the panel wiring goes back to a number of terminal strips on the wall and there's no practical way to separate the AC and DC sections there. This dates back to the original build at Hershine in 1985. Rectifying this would essentially amount to rewiring the whole boat, which is just not in the cards. That said, the whole electrical installation is in a closed off area, it's not like someone can accidentally touch something dangerous.

Old panel pics vs. new are attached for those who are curious.

 

[Comodave]

I put in a new Blue Seas panel that had both 12 and 120 volt on it. It came with a plastic box that covered the 120 volt side on the back of the panel. It fit pretty close to the back of the panel.

 

[UrsusMaritimus]

I put in a new Blue Seas panel that had both 12 and 120 volt on it. It came with a plastic box that covered the 120 volt side on the back of the panel. It fit pretty close to the back of the panel.

I also have a cover for the back of this panel, which is custom, but uses Blue Sea breakers... but the terminal strips on the wall are still exposed. I can sort out a cover for the terminal strips too, but it will cover all of them, and not just the AC ones. That may be the way I proceed, but I haven't decided yet.

 

[tiltrider1]

What is the definition of separation? Since my AC doesn’t touch my DC it must be separated. My AC neutrals, grounds and miscellaneous signal wire buses all share the same bus cabinet. I view this as separated and covered. You would need to open a door to get access.

I can tell you that I have covers over every exposed AC junction. Where I fall short is the AC circuit breaker panel. I have been tOLd by surveyors that I am good because no one could accidentally put their hands behind the panel.

Finally, I do meet the 1987 ABYC standards. In general, I make all new additions meet ABYC standards(LFP battery upgrade). In areas of real safety I upgrade old systems to current ABYC standards(propane lockers, sniffers, auto shut off). I have no interest in replacing black DC wire with yellow, not a 1987 standard.

I don’t accept short cuts like, that junction is under a hatch under the bed so it’s covered. If some one was rummaging around in the dark could they accidentally put a hand on it? If yes, then it should be covered.

 

[ancora]

The ABYC does not have any legal authority. They can make recommendations, but that's all.

 

[Comodave]

This is true but your insurance company may require you to meet the standards.

 

[twistedtree]

If, like me, you've got an older boat that's been through several changes of hands, you likely can peel back the layers and see the different work styles of the various owners. They typically range from original install, to pretty good, to a total cluster. I'm curious about your experiences and where you choose to stop when you're doing new work.

My boat recently got a new electrical panel, and, by ABYC rules the AC panel should be separated from DC with a protective cover fastened by mechanical means. That's easy enough to do with the new panel, but the panel wiring goes back to a number of terminal strips on the wall and there's no practical way to separate the AC and DC sections there. This dates back to the original build at Hershine in 1985. Rectifying this would essentially amount to rewiring the whole boat, which is just not in the cards. That said, the whole electrical installation is in a closed off area, it's not like someone can accidentally touch something dangerous.

Old panel pics vs. new are attached for those who are curious.

That's an interesting question about terminal strips. As I recall ABYC says that AC connections must be protected by something that requires a tool to access, so you can only get to it intentionally. I suppose an electrical cabinet with some sort of lock or key would accomplish that. My electrical cabinet has a plastic guard over the back side of the AC breakers, like you have made. But all the AC and DC connections are then made at modern DIN rail terminal blocks which I think are just a newer form of your terminal strips. There is no covering of the AC terminal blocks, but they are all relatively "finger safe" with the screw terminals recessed and pretty well protected. And again, to even get into the cabinet you need a screw driver to open the 1/4 turn latches.

If you want more protection than open terminal strips, a cover as you describe sounds good. If there is enough wire slack, you might be able to convert the terminal strips over to DIN rail terminal blocks without too much rewiring, and then you would have less need for a cover.

 

[UrsusMaritimus]

The ABYC does not have any legal authority. They can make recommendations, but that's all.

I get that, but the ABYC guidelines are widely accepted as best practice, so it makes sense to follow them where possible.

To tiltrider1's point, I guess the thing to remember is that the ABYC guidelines have changed over the years, and just like in a house, you don't necessarily rip everything out and start over every time a code changes.

For my installation, I will put the cover on the back of the panel, and I will not worry about the terminal strips, since they are in a closed compartment that is inaccessible without considerable effort. That said, I think I will make sure the AC terminal strips are clearly labeled as such for any future users.

 

[twistedtree]

I get that, but the ABYC guidelines are widely accepted as best practice, so it makes sense to follow them where possible.

To tiltrider1's point, I guess the thing to remember is that the ABYC guidelines have changed over the years, and just like in a house, you don't necessarily rip everything out and start over every time a code changes.

For my installation, I will put the cover on the back of the panel, and I will not worry about the terminal strips, since they are in a closed compartment that is inaccessible without considerable effort. That said, I think I will make sure the AC terminal strips are clearly labeled as such for any future users.

There you go. Sounds like a reasonable and safe approach.

 

[Phil Fill]

My insurance companies did an inspection before renewing insurance. Not just electrical but whole boat. List had at least 2 dozen code infractions. 3 grand to bring up to code.

I am sure if another audit was required that the boat would not meet new code. The inspection was 15 to 20 years ago.

 

[NoRain]

What “code”?

 

[SteveK]

I would like to understand what problem is being discussed.
The OP has front and back photos of old and new. Is the back side accessible without removing the face panel with tools?

 

[UrsusMaritimus]

I would like to understand what problem is being discussed.
The OP has front and back photos of old and new. Is the back side accessible without removing the face panel with tools?

No, but the backside is accessible by removing an access panel, and once that panel is removed there are terminal strips with both DC and AC connections. According to ABYC guidelines, there should be a cover over the AC terminal strips, but this is not possible given the way the wiring is set up.

 

[SteveK]

No, but the backside is accessible by removing an access panel, and once that panel is removed there are terminal strips with both DC and AC connections. According to ABYC guidelines, there should be a cover over the AC terminal strips, but this is not possible given the way the wiring is set up.

Thinking like ABYC I wonder if it is meant not to have it not like on my grandbanks where the backside of the panel was into the space behind helm so when you go routing around in there with DC or any other than AC, an AC shock is unexpected. I cannot see a need for a cover when you can only access intentionally. BUT who knows?

 

[ancora]

My Taiwan trawler has an AC/DC receptacle on the fly bridge with the wiring using the same terminal block. I found that out when the AC "bit" me.

 

[UrsusMaritimus]

My Taiwan trawler has an AC/DC receptacle on the fly bridge with the wiring using the same terminal block. I found that out when the AC "bit" me.

Yikes! This is exactly the problem.

Codes are one thing, and bringing something up to the latest code is not always possible or practical, but safety is the key factor.

 

[Ron Stevenson]

So my boat tech friend who does it for a living, in my '79 trawler while making wiring repairs and knows ABYC, made a flap out of thick rubber, and put it over the backside of the AC part of the common panel. So after you slide the forward cabin partition closed, empty out the forward hanging locker, and open the access door to the behind the helm area, then wedge your body into the closet, if you happen to stick your hand in there,without looking, there is rubber flap in. the way and has to be lifted up to get access to that part of things. I am not sure ABYC would approve, but it does its job! ;-}