ELCI breaker tripped. Why?

[Jklotz]

Yesterday, I noticed, mid morning, that the ELCI breaker in the laz (where the shore power goes in) had tripped sometime during the night. Completely unaware, we proceeded to cook breakfast and go through our morning routine. By the time I realized it, the AGM house batteries were down to 27%. I immediately cranked up the gen, got them charging again and started to troubleshoot. Nothing was wrong, just the ELCI had tripped? Nothing any different on our boat, no one else on the dock had any problems. Since finding it, turning it back on, no problems since. It did not trip again. Not sure about the condition of the house batteries. Had I not been on the boat, well, they most certainly would have been toast. Fingers crossed they are still ok. I'll get in there with a load tester later today.

Having owned the boat for 6 months now, never saw that one before. Killed shore power completely. It's a nice marina, newer docks with newer power pedestals. Why would this happen? Also, there was no sound or alarms. Any way to install an alarm of some sort so, if it does happen again, at least I know about it?

 

[l00smarble]

An ELCI is a very sensitive device and they can trip for a variety of very minor reasons including hiccups/flucuations in shorepower or very minor events on board like plugging or unplugging an appliance. I would say that one trip in 6 months is likely just a "nuisance" trip and the only thing to do it keep an eye on it. If it keeps happening then there is something to chase down but it if does not happen for another 6 months nobody will ever been able to pinpoint and explain the reason.

There are any number of ways that you could be alerted to loss of shorepower and/or to low battery voltage.

One trip down to 27% on AGM batteries is not that big of a deal especially if hte voltage was still above 12.0v. I would not sweat it. Recharge the batteries and go on enjoying the boat.

 

[Bmarler]

When I’m at the dock I disable the inverter from automatically coming on. Worst case is I lose some food in the fridge or wake up with no heat on.
You can certainly put an indicator or alarm on the shore power, but I wouldn’t bother.

 

[Frosty]

I'm sure there may be better ways, but one quick way I can think of is to set a SOC % alarm on your battery monitor (I imagine they all must have such a thing? In my case I have various models of Victron BMV and they have a low SOC alarm you can set at a percentage of your choosing).

I've never integrated such an alarm (there is a relay on mine that could conceivably "do things"), so I'd have to be aboard to hear it (but I don't ever rely on shorepower when not aboard). But that relay exists at least on the BMV (not the Smart Shunt).

You could also add something like a Victron BatteryProtect. That could be set to disconnect if certain parameters were met (low SOC, etc.).

There may be other/better ways, likely involving your inverter (?). If you have a battery monitor though, then setting a low SOC alarm (you choose the percentage) would be something you could have up and running less than an hour from now. That would also alert you to low SOC when NOT on shorepower.

 

[O C Diver]

On my boat I installed a Siren (manufacturer's name) alarm system. One of the features I installed with it was a shorepower disconnect alarm. It would notify me by text and email of a shorepower disconnect and reconnect. On several occasions at one transient dock, the boat was moved maybe 50' along the bulkhead, to accommodate other vessel sizes. I knew this when docking there. Each time the vessel was moved I received text and email from disconnect and a second text and email on reconnection.

Also, this system has a settable low voltage alarm. So, to a tenth of a volt, you can set your minimum DC voltage and also receive a text and / or email. These alarms are easily settable from the app, so can be changed from on shorepower to a lower setting on the hook, or turned off. Also, these values have a time function. So if you're nuking something in the microwave, a low voltage dip doesn't trigger a notification based on a short time.

Ted

 

[tiltrider1]

An ELCI is a very sensitive device and they can trip for a variety of very minor reasons including hiccups/flucuations in shorepower or very minor events on board like plugging or unplugging an appliance. I would say that one trip in 6 months is likely just a "nuisance" trip and the only thing to do it keep an eye on it. If it keeps happening then there is something to chase down but it if does not happen for another 6 months nobody will ever been able to pinpoint and explain the reason.

There are any number of ways that you could be alerted to loss of shorepower and/or to low battery voltage.

One trip down to 27% on AGM batteries is not that big of a deal especially if hte voltage was still above 12.0v. I would not sweat it. Recharge the batteries and go on enjoying the boat.

Just adding to this. We have noticed that ELCI’s do not like sudden power on/off/on situations. Something we would notice as a sudden blink in lights will often trip an ELCI. Your neighbors wouldn’t remember something that minor even if they had witnessed it.

Now that said, date this event in a log. If it never happens again great. If it continues to happen at an increasingly shorter interval we have an issue.

One last question. Have you recently added some new electrical component? A new lamp, appliance, charger, ac pump, etc. If so, add that to your log. May not be relevant but if the problem persists it might be relevant.

 

[Jklotz]

Just adding to this. We have noticed that ELCI’s do not like sudden power on/off/on situations. Something we would notice as a sudden blink in lights will often trip an ELCI. Your neighbors wouldn’t remember something that minor even if they had witnessed it.

Now that said, date this event in a log. If it never happens again great. If it continues to happen at an increasingly shorter interval we have an issue.

One last question. Have you recently added some new electrical component? A new lamp, appliance, charger, ac pump, etc. If so, add that to your log. May not be relevant but if the problem persists it might be relevant.

OK, that helps. I'll make a note in the maintenace log book and keep an eye one it to see if it happens again.

 

[Taras]

Yeah, when plugged into Shorepower, run your inverter/charger on only "charger mode". This will disable the inverter from kicking on in case of a shorepower failure and hammering your batteries.

 

[SteveK]

Yeah, when plugged into Shorepower, run your inverter/charger on only "charger mode". This will disable the inverter from kicking on in case of a shorepower failure and hammering your batteries.

what is the point of having an inverter then? I mean if the load should only receive power from shore, then why run it through an inverter?

My inverter has a low DC voltage cutout to help protect the battery. When I lose shore power I want the inverter to take over for as long as it can, hoping shore power returns, provides power and re charges, which has already worked in overnight outages.

 

[Frosty]

@SteveK said:
"what is the point of having an inverter then? I mean if the load should only receive power from shore, then why run it through an inverter?"

I think they are talking about a pass through type of inverter. So these are loads going through the inverter/charger that can be supplied from shorepower, OR from your batteries/inverter if not on shorepower.

So if you are plugged in to shorepower, you can select "charger only" and that way the Inverter *cannot* power those circuits (e.g. if shorepower goes away, your batteries don't run down).

When you leave the dock you can let the inverter come back on and then power those loads via your battery bank (should you desire to run them). So the point is to have a setting where the Inverter can't come on, unbeknownst to you. But then still be able to use the Inverter when you want to (and plan to).

 

[SteveK]

I think they are talking about a pass through type of inverter? So these are loads going through the inverter/charger that can be supplied from shorepower, OR from your batteries/inverter if not on shorepower.

So if you are plugged in to shorepower, you can select "charger only" and that way the Inverter *cannot* power those circuits (e.g. if shorepower goes away, your batteries don't run down).

When you leave the dock you can let the inverter come back on and then power those loads via your battery bank (should you desire to run them).

Yes I know exactly what is said, I have pass through. yes I can turn off charge and/or invert.
My questions remain.

 

[Jklotz]

Spoke to a guy on our dock that is an IT guy, smart in ways I'm not. He suggested this device to monitor when shore power goes out:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FC6JW6QZ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

 

[tiltrider1]

When shore power goes off I get a message on my phone from my security system.

 

[Serene]

what is the point of having an inverter then? I mean if the load should only receive power from shore, then why run it through an inverter?

My inverter has a low DC voltage cutout to help protect the battery. When I lose shore power I want the inverter to take over for as long as it can, hoping shore power returns, provides power and re charges, which has already worked in overnight outages.

I am of the same mindset as Steve. Obviously if the shorepower breaker trips it won't come back on without manual intervention, but for short outages I think it better to have the inverter/batteries carry the load until shorepower is restored and the charger kicks in. Of course if shorepower is not restored, then the inverter is programmed to stop inverting at a specific SOC before the batteries are damaged.

Could stop a small problem becoming a big problem in cases where for example a dock neighbour unplugs your lead to move something around.

 

[Bmarler]

Yes I know exactly what is said, I have pass through. yes I can turn off charge and/or invert.
My questions remain.

in the summertime I leave mine on standby, but in winter, I have electric heat and dehumidifiers running so I don’t burn as much diesel from the hydronic system. Electric heat will draw down the batteries pretty darn quick.
My refrigeration is dc only, and the chest freezer will hold just fine.
I leave on weekends all winter long to my place at the coast, and don’t want my batteries drained in a power outage.

 

[Taras]

what is the point of having an inverter then? I mean if the load should only receive power from shore, then why run it through an inverter?

My inverter has a low DC voltage cutout to help protect the battery. When I lose shore power I want the inverter to take over for as long as it can, hoping shore power returns, provides power and re charges, which has already worked in overnight outages.

It really is just a personal preference thing. I like to run my inverter/charger in "charge only mode" while I am plugged into shorepower. If I lose shorepower, I know it immediately as certain system are obviously without power. I can then determine "why" I lost shorepower and rectify the situation. I don't want to draw down my batteries without my knowledge that is happening. I figure, I got to rectify the shorepower connection anyway so why draw the batteries down and waste a "cycle" of battery life (I have lead acid batteries).

 

[CharlieJ]

OP: If you have a Blue Sea Systems ELCI it will indicate whether it tripped on leakage current or on overload.

 

[jgwinks]

It really is just a personal preference thing. I like to run my inverter/charger in "charge only mode" while I am plugged into shorepower. If I lose shorepower, I know it immediately as certain system are obviously without power. I can then determine "why" I lost shorepower and rectify the situation. I don't want to draw down my batteries without my knowledge that is happening. I figure, I got to rectify the shorepower connection anyway so why draw the batteries down and waste a "cycle" of battery life (I have lead acid batteries).

Exactly what I do. Invert mode is only used when underway or otherwise unplugged.

 

[Jklotz]

OP: If you have a Blue Sea Systems ELCI it will indicate whether it tripped on leakage current or on overload.

I do have the BSS ELCI. I already switched it back on, obviously. Can it still tell me or only when tripped?

BTW - I installed the power monitoring system I linked to above, so I'll get an alert if it goes off again.

 

[CharlieJ]

@Jklotz #19: The trip indication LEDs are not sticky and will extinguish when the ELCI is reset.