Dripless Shaft Seal Leak

[Intrepidblonde]

Need some suggestions…. Went cruising in the gulf islands when I discovered my PSS dripless shaft seal is massively leaking (only about 5 years old) and I think my cutlass bearing should be changed as I hear a squeaking. Do I need a new dripless or just parts? I have an 30 sec video but I can’t seem to figure out how to post it. any suggestions most appreciated. I live in the lower mainland, BC.

 

[Comodave]

You can rebuild the PSS dripless log. The cutlass bearing can be changed but the boat will need to be hauled to do it. We changed our cutlass bearings last year. They make a tool that press the old bearing out with the shaft in place.

 

[Intrepidblonde]

Ya that’s what I figured…. Looks like I can be fit in in October in Nanaimo for the fix

 

[Intrepidblonde]

Anyone know a mechanic on the LMD?

 

[luna]

With a dripless shaft seal that is massively leaking you better act quick and have a good eye on things in the meantime. To fix it right, the boat has to be hauled up onto land and the work completed. Watch out for project creep.

If the boat is back at your listed Home Port you can give Cape Boat Works a call and see if they can haul a boat of your size. If they can't, they should know if there is someone who can locally do the work.

If that draws a blank then I would contact one of the numerous boatyards in Nanaimo to arrange for the work to be done.
You may want to have whoever you chose to do the work come to the boat a few days before your arrival at the yard so that they can get the parts needed to fix the problems.

YXX is not the place to manage this from unless you have reliable boots on the ground.

 

[Comodave]

In the short term you might try wrapping the shaft log with rescue tape to slow down or stop the leak. Although you would not be able to run the boat.

 

[NoRain]

Whoa, steady on guys. First question, is it leaking like that at rest, or only while running? And if while running, at what speed - idle range or working hard? Big difference in what you do next.

 

[luna]

If those in Nanaimo are quoting Oct. you may want to give Madeira Marine in Pender Harbour (just about 2 miles further from F. C. than Nanaimo) a call and see what they say.

Otherwise you may be in for a cruise of about double the length, all the way to Vancouver.

 

[Intrepidblonde]

Doesn’t leak at rest at 1500 rpm it shoots up like a hole in a hose. I did a quick fix by tightening the clamps and that reduced the leak but did not stop. What is more weird when I took the video I had some cloths underneath the shaft and the water seemed to be pink! I would assume that is transmission fluid, so if it is why would that be spraying up when I have an obvious shaft seal leak? Ya, I am considering nursing her to a Vancouver boatyard. Thank you so far for the responses. Very much appreciated

 

[Mac2]

Sorry if this sounds insulting, but I had a PSS shaft seal on my previous boat that had the set screws loosen and the compressed seal slid up the shaft loosing its seal and gushing water. I used a hose clamp to help the set screws hold it compressed. I believe they now come with collars to solve this problem.

 

[Streff]

I would try calling Stonesboatyard in Nanaimo, I think they usually have openings. I did see them work shaft & dripless last year and they did a really nice professional job. You just need to get past the foreman, who shouts at you instead of talking with you, but as others have indicated getting the parts ahead of time would be useful.

The other boatyard is Shelter island, big yard with openings within a couple of days. Excellent mechanics & techs are generally available.

 

[Intrepidblonde]

Doesn’t leak at rest at 1500 rpm it shoots up like a hole in a hose. I did a quick fix by tightening the clamps and that reduced the leak but did not stop. What is more weird when I took the video I had some cloths underneath the shaft and the water seemed to be pink! I would assume that is transmission fluid, so if it is why would that be spraying up when I have an obvious shaft seal leak? Ya, I am considering nursing her to a Vancouver boatyard. Thank you so far for the responses. Very much appreciated:

With a dripless shaft seal that is massively leaking you better act quick and have a good eye on things in the meantime. To fix it right, the boat has to be hauled up onto land and the work completed. Watch out for project creep.

If the boat is back at your listed Home Port you can give Cape Boat Works a call and see if they can haul a boat of your size. If they can't, they should know if there is someone who can locally do the work.

If that draws a blank then I would contact one of the numerous boatyards in Nanaimo to arrange for the work to be done.
You may want to have whoever you chose to do the work come to the boat a few days before your arrival at the yard so that they can get the parts needed to fix the problems.

YXX is not the place to manage this from unless you have reliable boots on the ground.

With a dripless shaft seal that is massively leaking you better act quick and have a good eye on things in the meantime. To fix it right, the boat has to be hauled up onto land and the work completed. Watch out for project creep.

If the boat is back at your listed Home Port you can give Cape Boat Works a call and see if they can haul a boat of your size. If they can't, they should know if there is someone who can locally do the work.

If that draws a blank then I would contact one of the numerous boatyards in Nanaimo to arrange for the work to be done.
You may want to have whoever you chose to do the work come to the boat a few days before your arrival at the yard so that they can get the parts needed to fix the problems.

YXX is not the place to manage this from unless you have reliable boots on the ground.

Sorry if this sounds insulting, but I had a PSS shaft seal on my previous boat that had the set screws loosen and the compressed seal slid up the shaft loosing its seal and gushing water. I used a hose clamp to help the set screws hold it compressed. I believe they now come with collars to solve this problem.

Thank you. I will try that as I get her to a yard.

 

[Intrepidblonde]

I would try calling Stonesboatyard in Nanaimo, I think they usually have openings. I did see them work shaft & dripless last year and they did a really nice professional job. You just need to get past the foreman, who shouts at you instead of talking with you, but as others have indicated getting the parts ahead of time would be useful.

The other boatyard is Shelter island, big yard with openings within a couple of days. Excellent mechanics & techs are generally available.

I have been to Stones. I was just worried about how young some of the staff are and worried they don’t know what they are doing. Seeing your experience helps.

 

[mvweebles]

Sorry if this sounds insulting, but I had a PSS shaft seal on my previous boat that had the set screws loosen and the compressed seal slid up the shaft loosing its seal and gushing water. I used a hose clamp to help the set screws hold it compressed. I believe they now come with collars to solve this problem.

My thoughts too. I saw this happen on a friend's boat - very impressive amount of water, though was leaking at rest (gushing).

The PSS bellows are robust - the OP may want to try loosening the shaft ring piece and moving it after 1/4"-1/2" to increase compression on the interference fit between the bellows and the shaft ring. Care is in order if the PSS is old and/or corroded.

The spray is likely from centrifugal force of the water being slung.

Parts can be purchased separately for the PSS but if it's more than about 5-years old, probably need to replace it - they last much longer than 5-years but cost of parts probably sums to well above replacement.

As an aside, I used to run PSS. I switched to Tides which has a lip seal and a spare can be fitted on the shaft during install.

Peter

 

[Bmarler]

Shoots up like a hole in a hose? A single stream?
Is it coming from inbetween the mating surfaces of the seal? Did you try pulling the seal apart and flushing water through it?
It was mentioned to maybe try to tighten the seal. The set screws that hold it are doubled up in the holes. So you have to pull the outer ones completely out, then loosen the inners.
Put a mark on the shaft with a sharpie so you can gauge how much it’s moved.
Don’t forget to re install the second set of set screws.

 

[Intrepidblonde]

Shoots up like a hole in a hose? A single stream?
Is it coming from inbetween the mating surfaces of the seal? Did you try pulling the seal apart and flushing water through it?
It was mentioned to maybe try to tighten the seal. The set screws that hold it are doubled up in the holes. So you have to pull the outer ones completely out, then loosen the inners.
Put a mark on the shaft with a sharpie so you can gauge how much it’s moved.
Don’t forget to re install the second set of set screws.

Sorry, not the best of analogies, sprays, sprays, sprays, I think it is coming between the graphite thing and the clamp? Terminology not my strong suit. I will try that suggestion. I am going to the boat in the am and hopefully can minor fix til a haul out.

 

[Intrepidblonde]

My thoughts too. I saw this happen on a friend's boat - very impressive amount of water, though was leaking at rest (gushing).

The PSS bellows are robust - the OP may want to try loosening the shaft ring piece and moving it after 1/4"-1/2" to increase compression on the interference fit between the bellows and the shaft ring. Care is in order if the PSS is old and/or corroded.

The spray is likely from centrifugal force of the water being slung.

Parts can be purchased separately for the PSS but if it's more than about 5-years old, probably need to replace it - they last much longer than 5-years but cost of parts probably sums to well above replacement.

As an aside, I used to run PSS. I switched to Tides which has a lip seal and a spare can be fitted on the shaft during install.

Peter

I was watching a vid on the tides, there is an extra collar, for extra safety redundancy which is always our friend. I saw one fellow put on an extra collar on the PSS, doable? The PSS I bought new about 5 years ago….so you recommend new shaft seals altogether? Because if I do one should do the other…..

 

[mvweebles]

Below is an exploded diagram of a PSS seal. Shows the nomenclature. When installed the Rotor is pressed agains the Stator thereby compressing the Bellows which have a significant spring tension to them. This forms a "face seal" between the Rotor and the Stator. Here are the possible places for leaks

• Hose clamps on the Bellows (least likely)
• O-Rings on Rotor (also unlikely)
• Hose Barb - this is to provide water for lubrication. Your description of squirting water (vs spraying water) means this might be possible.
• Face Seal mating surface (most likely source of leak).

Face Seal mating surface could leak due to wear (these last a LOT longer than 5-years); debris (which is why @Bmarler suggested 'burping' the seal by manually compressing the Bellows and allow water to wash-out the surface); or I suppose if there's some shaft wobble, the Stator/Rotor surfaces could wear unevenly.

A still picture of your setup would be helpful. Also, some idea of how much water is leaking underway. Maybe put a shallow Tupperware tray beneath if it's less than a pint or so an hour. With exception of basic cleaning of the surfaces with some fine wet-dry sandpaper to dress the surfaces, there isn't much that can be field serviced without hauling the boat. Note, that even dressing the surfaces is a bit 'interesting' because you have to push-back the bellows and a LOT of water comes in so you have around a minute to do the work and you'll get wet as hell.

Hope this helps.

Peter

 

[firehoser75]

Some good advice so far. The most likely place (with the limited info we have) for a leak would be due to a lowering of the bellows compression due to the rotor moving (loosening) allowing the bellows to "decompress" or uneven wear of the stator surface due to a misalignment. If you remove the set screws to try to gain more compression, do not reuse them, install new ones, and there are 2 in each hole.
Try contacting Newcastle Marina in Nanaimo for space to haul (they are DIY friendly) and ask them for contact info for Toby (used to work for Extreme Fibreglass). Toby serviced my PSS, installed new cutlass bearings, rudder seal etc. aligned everything, etc. when I was hauled at Newcastle. Not only is he a wiz at fibreglass work, he is also a heavy duty mechanic. If you would like Toby's phone number, PM me and I will send it to you that way.
Tom

 

[Blues]

Sorry if this sounds insulting, but I had a PSS shaft seal on my previous boat that had the set screws loosen and the compressed seal slid up the shaft loosing its seal and gushing water. I used a hose clamp to help the set screws hold it compressed. I believe they now come with collars to solve this problem.

Just went through this. PSS is very particular about how to use the set screws and yes they also sell a collar for added security to keep the rotating part from slipping on the shaft which I now have on my boat (don’t ask).

 

[SteveK]

I second Stones and Shelter Island and have heard good about Newcastle.
If you have not already done so, and if you/the boat is in Parksville Nanaimo makes best sense.
Maybe, if they cannot haul soon, ask if they will give you a visual inspection report so you can plan.

 

[Intrepidblonde]

Some good advice so far. The most likely place (with the limited info we have) for a leak would be due to a lowering of the bellows compression due to the rotor moving (loosening) allowing the bellows to "decompress" or uneven wear of the stator surface due to a misalignment. If you remove the set screws to try to gain more compression, do not reuse them, install new ones, and there are 2 in each hole.
Try contacting Newcastle Marina in Nanaimo for space to haul (they are DIY friendly) and ask them for contact info for Toby (used to work for Extreme Fibreglass). Toby serviced my PSS, installed new cutlass bearings, rudder seal etc. aligned everything, etc. when I was hauled at Newcastle. Not only is he a wiz at fibreglass work, he is also a heavy duty mechanic. If you would like Toby's phone number, PM me and I will send it to you that way.
Tom

I called Toby….excellent advice and very much appreciated. Toby has an excellent reputation from what I’ve gathered. Toby said he is full u til October,I would ideally have liked to use him but I am hoping for a fix sooner rather than later so I can still boat this summer.

 

[lwarden]

Can you please post a couple of pictures of the offending seal? From a good picture we can provide more suggestions on potential fixes. Also, with these seals it’s very important that the shaft and stainless collar are inline and concentric with the bellows and tube that it attaches to, and that the shaft runs true with no wobble. These PSS seals can be fussy.

 

[luna]

If you are looking to change from the PSS design of shaft seal to a lip seal design like that used in the Tides Marine's product you will have to make the area of the shaft that the lip seal runs on, in Tides words, "like new."

If this was my shaft, the set screws used with the existing PSS shaft seal would undoubtedly be in the exact location where the lip seal is to run which would necessitate a trip to VM Dafoe's shop to have the shaft made "like new." Probably a good idea to give the shaft, coupler and prop a go over anyway.

I would go one better and ensure that there are no spiral grooves from the polishing paper in the area that the seals run as these tiny grooves can leak the coolant fluid past the lip seal.

Myself, I would pass on the Tides Marine seal design as that uses unfiltered raw water to lubricate and cool the lip seal's running surface.

Norscot provides a lip seal based shaft seal design that uses light weight oil (ATF) to lube and cool things.
Mine are approaching 30 years old and other than new seals every 8 to 10 years (only done at haul out) and keeping the 1 pint reservoir topped up (maybe twice a year) they require almost no maintenance.
The best part about them is they keep the salt water where it belongs, outside of the boat.

Good luck with getting and keeping your ER dry.

 

[dannc]

...
If you remove the set screws to try to gain more compression, do not reuse them, install new ones, and there are 2 in each hole.
...
Tom

This part of Tom's post is important. ^^^

 

[Intrepidblonde]

Can you please post a couple of pictures of the offending seal? From a good picture we can provide more suggestions on potential fixes. Also, with these seals it’s very important that the shaft and stainless collar are inline and concentric with the bellows and tube that it attaches to, and that the shaft runs true with no wobble. These PSS seals can be fussy.

 

[Intrepidblonde]

So I’m at the boat and see that the problem has become a bigger problem…the water spray took out my VictronConnect solar charger. Totally fried. BOAT is going to happen I think.
Thank you to everyone’s responses, very much appreciated. I will update the post when I have more complaining to do!!!! Or that I’ve actually solved one…lol

 

[mvweebles]

Can you send a picture of the PSS - from a bit of a distance so folks can get perspective (not too close up)? The diaper looks like it has ATF. Is there a water feed tube into the PSS and if so, where does it come from? Have you checked your transmission oil recently? Anything milky?

Best of luck. Please update with resolution.

Peter

 

[Mac2]

Could it be a Norscot shaft seal?Definitely looks like ATF. Maybe transmission is leaking down to the shaft and spinning out at the shaft seal. Do you use oil or ATF in your transmission? As stated above, a picture of the shaft seal would be helpful.

 

[Comodave]

If it is a Norscott shaft log it would have a container above the log to hold the ATF.