Do I really need paper charts?

[Lshulan]

I’m going to be cruising back from Ontario to NJ and have brand new electronic charts on my 2 chart plotters (upper and lower helms) and a backup one as well. I have paper charts of Lake Ontario/Oswego Canal and then will head ast on on the Erie Canal. After exiting the Erie Canal, I’ll be heading down the Hudson to NY harbor and then to Sandy Hook. And then down to Barnegat Bay via Manasquan inlet and Pt Pleasant Canal. Anyway, my electronic charts will be less than 2 weeks old and cover the entire trip. And I have the latest Skipper Bob Guide to the Oswego and Erie Canals and the latest Waterway Guide that covers the Hudson River and NY harbor etc. So do I really need paper charts too? I can download from NOAA pdf versions of all of the charts (there are many) that cover the route but is this even necessary? And to buy full size charts would be expensive Thoughts from actual cruisers please.

 

[slowgoesit]

Whether or not you need paper charts is rapidly becoming irrelevant, as they are increasingly difficult to obtain. We don't have paper charts for the entire trip we are on right now, Puget Sound to Glacier Bay, and back, about 2,900 miles all told. I WISH I had paper charts for everything, but I couldn't find all of them, and the ones I DID locate were old charts, years out of date.
Our solution was to have backups to the backups for electronic charts, 2 tablets, 3 I-phones, and two laptop computers. Not the best solution, but the best I could come up with.

 

[mvweebles]

You don't need them. You may want them but no way you need them (I find old school raster charts intuitive for visual navigation)

 

[C lectric]

You may not have a choice since both the US and Cda. have quit printing paper charts.

I too have several tablets , two in use right in front of me + my wifes in front of her. My are usually set for large scale and one for small scale.

We don't have the room for larger screens.

Personally I like the paper charts and still use them for the areas we frequent.

They show far more detail at a glance and show the overall areas .

HOwever we are faced with no choice unless some one has them and no longer needs them or used in a chandlery.

 

[SoWhat]

Navionics or AquaMap on an IPad or IPhone makes excellent primary or secondary chart plotter.

I have a set of chartbooks but haven't opened them in years. I haven't looked at a paper chart in many years. My basic navigation set is buried somewhere in my basement.

So no, you do not need paper charts. In my opinion you will never use them.

 

[Lshulan]

Thanks for the feedback

I believe I can download and print pdf versions of some charts, we shrinking of bringing to a Staples or Office Max and having them printed large scale. Some cost but nothing like buying full size charts. But I don’t really think I need them but I guess if all of the chartplotters die, then I would be happy to have them. Of course if all of the chartplotters die, chances are the boat isn’t moving either.

Thanks everyone for the replies

 

[Inbreaker]

Paper charts? Terribly old fashioned, like me.
The navigational information and ability of chart plotters is another miracle of the age of steam, and something we should fall on our knees and give thanks for. But I like to spread out a paper chart, even- forgive me- an out of date one, for planning purposes, at the end of the day, and perhaps with a beverage.
It is regrettably the case that within the next 12-24 months they will be gone.
In the last two weeks I went to a place here in Desolation Sound where I knew they had a stock of local charts. They are several years out of date. I explained the Australian expression 'money for old rope' to the boss, and asked what he would charge me if I took 6 or 8, rather than him using them to light his fireplace this winter.
He invited me to take what I wanted. I am sitting here now in in Galley Bay admiring a couple of them.
Get 'em while you can.

 

[tiltrider1]

I made a point to down load all the raster charts for the west coast. I can print them out using banner mode on the printer. Then I just tape the sheets together. Problem is they are out of date.

The fact is I use a Raymarine chart plotter for navigation and I do all my planning on navionics on my iPad.

The last time I actually used a paper chart was an Art project.

I have 3 MFD’s, two iPads, one Phone, one InReach, and three laptops all with some form of chart plotting.

 

[Ken E.]

I have paper charts but do you really need them? I don't think so. What you need is redundancy to back up your primary nav system. I have an Furuno chart plotter that's integrated with radar as my primary. I have a tablet with Navionics chart plotter as a backup which runs on an internal battery. And a laptop with a plotter. And I have a chart plotter on my cell phone. I use the tablet for route planning. I haven't used my paper charts in many years....never needed them.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I have a book of charts of the Delta and surrounding area, spiral bound with facility references and locations. I like to review it before a trip and it doesn't take up much space and fits in the document drawer with the rest of the boat docs.

Nah, don't need it, but I'm glad I have it -

 

[Mambo42]

I do have paper charts on board and if we stay in view of land I don't plan my position on the chart
However, if we have a leg outside of view of land I will keep my position updated on a chart.
Why ?
Electronics are nice, but they can fail. And if they fail you have absolutely nothing to determine your position.
Can all electronic equipment fail ? Well, you could run out of electrical power because of an electrical failure and then you will need paper charts again.
On top of that, I still see it as good practice to keep plotting your position on a paper chart, knowing how to calculate a course, a distance, drift etc. Too many people now fully rely on electronic equipment and basically have no idea anymore how the basics work.

But again, if I am within view of land I won't plot my track nor position on a paper chart.

 

[FWT]

You don't need a spare tire and jack in the car, because after all, how often is it used?

 

[mvweebles]

You don't need a spare tire and jack in the car, because after all, how often is it used?

OP already has a couple spares. Plus all sorts of information off a cell phone. He's not exactly crossing an ocean - planned trip is a well marked path day-tripping from Ontario CAN to NJ, presumably there are ATONs and other vessels he coupld follow if two onboard nav systems failed, his tablet failed, and all cell phones failed. How many spare tires should one carry on a trip across town?

Question: let's say updated paper charts are aboard and all electronic navigation systems (including cell phone) are suddenly vaporized. How many of us would continue the trip to the intended final destination uninterrupted?

The use-case for paper charts is extremely narrow - approaching an unknown harbor from sea comes to mind because you can't safely anchor and buy time. I'm sure there are other use-cases, but you get the idea.

Peter

 

[boomerang]

I'm just not comfortable cruising without paper charts. Maybe because I'm old school, I don't know, but we keep our 30+ year-old chartbook open on our current location page the whole time, updating the markers as we go. When we started cruising a few years back, my wife Liz would make fun of me and my chartbook that was printed well into the 20th century. Now ,she's the one who uses it the most. Surprisingly, the "outdated" charts from last century aren't too inaccurate at all. The geographical features dont change that much (except for inlets & their proximities) and we actually use it more than you would think. It's just easier to study a paper chart rather than zoom in on an electronic one. Plus it's so damn hard to use a parallel ruler & dividers on our MFD's...

 

[ranger58sb]

Can all electronic equipment fail ? Well, you could run out of electrical power because of an electrical failure and then you will need paper charts again.

It's a point, but... I dunno that I'd agree with your "you will need paper" conclusion too readily.

If we had a complete electrical power failure... (assuming that didn't affect engines, which would put the kibosh on navigation anyway)...

We'd still have electronic charts on a laptop, two tablets, and two phones... before we had to resort to paper.

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

I don't carry paper charts. As Chris pointed out above, with the chartplotter plus backup charts on a laptop and phone, by the time I hit the point where I can't keep some form of chart display working, I likely have much bigger problems. If I've truly lost all parts of the electrical system to the extent where I can't rig a way to even keep a phone charged, then I likely don't have running engines anyway, so it no longer matters.

 

[Old Sea Dog]

Getting back into cruising after 30+ years. Grew up on the Chesapeake. Wandered the east coast from Maine to Florida and Bahamas. All my charts and cruising guides are from the '80s. There is a Garmin chartplotter on the flybridge. I will be gathering up as many current/newer charts/guides as I can. Will be investigating tablet/laptop navigation also.
When the EMP drops, will the old Lehmann still run? Probably should have bought another sailboat.......

Sent from my SM-G715U1 using Trawler Forum mobile app

 

[Cigatoo]

Getting back into cruising after 30+ years. Grew up on the Chesapeake. Wandered the east coast from Maine to Florida and Bahamas. All my charts and cruising guides are from the '80s. There is a Garmin chartplotter on the flybridge. I will be gathering up as many current/newer charts/guides as I can. Will be investigating tablet/laptop navigation also.
When the EMP drops, will the old Lehmann still run? Probably should have bought another sailboat.......

Sent from my SM-G715U1 using Trawler Forum mobile app

I have Garmin at both helm stations. I also have an iPad with Navionics and Time Zero loaded on. I’ll take the iPad any day. Navionics for the vector charts and Time Zero if I want to look at an old fashioned government raster chart. I use the Garmins for Radar. The old saying goes “if you can’t beat ‘em buy em”. Exactly why Garmin purchased Navionics.

 

[Art]

Taking tides and and weather into account; know where you're going. Before venturing out, carefully plan the day's journey. Coastal - when possible, stay in sight of, but off from land. Read the compass well. Pay attention to sea and land markers. Keep close eye on depth sounder. Read paper charts or electronics as/when needed.

BTW - Great to have a navigator wife at your side too!!

 

[OldDan1943]

bluewaterweb.com is the goto place for full size charts plus map books. They will gladly print out any charts you want. All you need is chart #1 to use as an index. They have a version of #1 on their web site too.

Great folks.

 

[Portage_Bay]

...The use-case for paper charts is extremely narrow - approaching an unknown harbor from sea comes to mind because you can't safely anchor and buy time.....

I'm just not comfortable cruising without paper charts. Maybe because I'm old school,.....


... It's just easier to study a paper chart rather than zoom in on an electronic one. Plus it's so damn hard to use a parallel ruler & dividers on our MFD's...

For me these two quote snippets sum it up well. I will add that the dividers make a mess of the MFD screen, all the little scratches and pin point holes.

For going without paper and the skills to use them backups to the electronics as the OP noted are critical. For me it's a laptop with a small plotter and tablet and phone for backups. I think it also important to have multiple GPS sources. I also have two sounders. The only thing that is does not have a backup is the radar which for fair weather recreational cruising I find acceptable.

Raster and paper charts are comfortable for me to use. I can see the technical advantages to vector charts but I prefer raster. I have downloaded a full set of raster charts and keep them up to date as much as possible. I'll sorely miss them when NOAA and CHS sunset raster charts.

I have a complete set of paper charts for everywhere I am likely to cruise. No, I don't navigate with them any more. I do like to use them for planning and thinking and dreaming. They're old and not kept up to date.

My final comment is that I much prefer stand alone instruments to MFD / black box systems.

 

[ranger58sb]

Time Zero if I want to look at an old fashioned government raster chart.

TZ has vector charts available too...

In case you weren't just making a point about a way to view raster charts.

FWIW, the MX Mariner app also offers those old-fashioned raster charts.

I'm having to ween myself from those old-fashioned charts, after 55+ years or so... and that process is going "OK" I guess. It's taking some getting used to, though, and vector charts still don't do much for my sense of aesthetics...

Not thrilled that Garmin want's $100/year to update charts. Over 10 years, that'd add $1K to the cost of their MFD... compared to free NOAA updates from Furuno/TimeZero/MapMedia.

-Chris

 

[jleonard]

Paper charts are great for planning and quick reference so one doesn’t have to zoom or pan on the plotter.
I also like them for rivers cause the wife keeps track of where we’re are overall and uses a clothes pin to mark where we are. Also easier to know bridge clearances ahead of time.
But outside of that strictly a plotter guy.

 

[DavidM]

Back some years ago, this question was debated here extensively. I remember Jeff Siegel, then the owner/founder of ActiveCaptain, advocating for dumping paper charts.

With a good chartplotter and at least one backup like an iPad, I think that is very doable. Don't rely on internet follow me charts, like the Navionics ones. Your backup should always be based on previously downloaded charts for your entire route, whether NOAA or others.

Jeff had an interesting comeback for naysayers who said that lightning strikes could wipe out your iPad. His solution was to keep your iPad inside a microwave during a storm. The microwave acts like a Faraday cage and protects it from the heavy current pulse of a lightning strike.

Hey, I guess crazy, negligible problems warrant crazy solutions.

David

 

[psneeld]

In 40 (1979-2019) years of depending on electronics for communications and navigation...both professionally and snowbird cruising.... only once did I ever lose nav capability for more than a half hour. Lucky? or an out of box thinker that made do with what he had? At some point.... I either regained the electronics or navigated to a safe spot without.

In all those years, paper charts were usually the farthest thing from my mind. Having a rough idea of where I was and where I needed to go was all I really needed. Rarely are you completely blind for the entire trip or for when you need to make a critical "turn or harbor entrance".

Sure there's always that chance that a paper chart would come in handy...fortunately I never encountered that one situation.

If you like using them for planning or following along...that's nice...but hardly a need any more than a cold beer on a hot day or air conditioning on a sweltering night....

 

[koliver]

When a youthful boater, I had a complete set of 1:40000 charts for Georgia Strait, including the Southern and northern Gulf Islands on my office wall and another on a basement wall at home. With those providing a break I quickly became familiar with all the places I wanted to see within that area and was better able to navigate to those places.
I have a complete set of paper charts, a chart book, redundant sets of Strip Charts for the Gulf Islands and the Sunshine Coast aboard.
When running from the main helm, my 16" laptop screen runs the navigation, with the charts set on North up and the boat icon centrally located. Paper charts are handy and come out when in tight quarters or when detail that isn't up on the active screen is required.
When running from up top, the 5" screen on the plotter is there only to allow me to run a route, otherwise the paper charts are out so that I have a full, large scale view of the surrounding area.
My paper charts are getting old, but here on the west coast, new hazards rarely occur, so updates like shifting sandbars are not part of my equation.
I can't imagine a time when I would not use paper charts, though I also get extensive use from the charts on my phone and the charting program on my laptop. I like to know where I am and where the hazards around me are located. Every means to add to that knowledge is welcome.

 

[sunchaser]

Yes we have and use paper charts for AK and BC. And too we have a multitude of electronic navigation systems. But, we have a vessel with adequate ability to store charts.

I can't imagine where we'd store dozens of charts on some vessels thus making paper an almost senseless possession. One note, several pleasure boats have gone aground or sunk in the PNW this year. I'm of the opinion that plug and play systems have led to sloppy navigation for some. Then with the AP continually set in Nav mode

 

[SoWhat]

You don't need a spare tire and jack in the car, because after all, how often is it used?

Many new cars no longer have jack or spare tires. They come with run flat tires.

 

[FWT]

In all those years, paper charts were usually the farthest thing from my mind. Having a rough idea of where I was and where I needed to go was all I really needed.

Not everyone has your skills, nor familiarity of the water, inlets, and anchorages likely to be encountered.

 

[rslifkin]

When in unfamiliar waters, I keep the laptop with charts (and its own GPS puck) next to the helm. That gives me 2 different kinds of charts to reference (Navionics on the plotter, NOAA on the laptop, gradually switching myself from RNC to ENC). Plus, it means I can keep the plotter zoomed in a bit tighter, the laptop zoomed out more for a big-picture view. And it's easy to move the chart around or zoom out further on the laptop to look ahead at something, etc.