Ditch your powder fire extinguishers

[Pprior]

What about those fire "blankets" - anyone have those? I know not officially allowed as USGC approved, but makes sense to drop over top of fire and suffocate it and in case of battery could use it to pick up battery and toss overboard if needed.

 

[NoRain]

Yes we have one in the galley. Made the most sense to me to smother a stove top fire. Never had to use it

I don’t believe it “counts” so we still have a 10BC dry chem mounted on the wall to meet regs.

 

[Uisce Beo]

What about those fire "blankets" - anyone have those? I know not officially allowed as USGC approved, but makes sense to drop over top of fire and suffocate it and in case of battery could use it to pick up battery and toss overboard if needed.

They are pretty standard in kitchens and galleys in Europe. They do just smother a fire. I don't think you'd be able to pick up a hot, burning battery with one.

 

[Nordlund Xpress]

That's a very well made 5lb USCG B1 CO2 extinguisher, with a 3-8' range. But make sure you buy the right mounting bracket, required for USCG approval. You'll need a 15lb minimum CO2 extinguisher to qualify for a USCG B2. CO2 extinguishers are nice as they cause no mess and they cool what ever the fire has heated. We carry a mix of CO2, dry ABC Powder (consider ordering a Purple K model for engine room/fuel applications) and Halotron extinguishers, including a large 20lb, High Performance model, with a 40-50' range kept in a deck locker. Consider ordering brass nozzle models for the marine environment. The Amarex web site has great product information. Different models and suppressant material have very different ranges that they can be effectively used to fight a fire. You may want to give this some thought. I've seen way too many fires having previously run the largest emergency medical service in the world, and carry significantly over the USCG minimum for fire suppression plus automatic engine compartment with ventilation shut down, plus a fire pump system which doubles for an emergency crash pump.

 

[Bud]

That's a very well made 5lb USCG B1 CO2 extinguisher, with a 3-8' range. But make sure you buy the right mounting bracket, required for USCG approval. You'll need a 15lb minimum CO2 extinguisher to qualify for a USCG B2. CO2 extinguishers are nice as they cause no mess and they cool what ever the fire has heated. We carry a mix of CO2, dry ABC Powder (consider ordering a Purple K model for engine room/fuel applications) and Halotron extinguishers, including a large 20lb, High Performance model, with a 40-50' range kept in a deck locker. Consider ordering brass nozzle models for the marine environment. The Amarex web site has great product information. Different models and suppressant material have very different ranges that they can be effectively used to fight a fire. You may want to give this some thought. I've seen way too many fires having previously run the largest emergency medical service in the world, and carry significantly over the USCG minimum for fire suppression plus automatic engine compartment with ventilation shut down, plus a fire pump system which doubles for an emergency crash pump.

I was planning on using the mounts that are there holding the dry chemical exstinguishers, just do a swap. They appear to very close in size.
Bud

 

[Comodave]

Just check the label and if they do meet CG requirements then the label should say that it does. If it doesn’t say it meets the requirements then buy a different one that says it does. You definitely want them to meet the requirements so you are legal. Also your insurance company probably wants that also.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Powder trumps ashes

 

[HuffinandPuffin]

I am curious to know if the e-bike was a reputable brand or an obscure cheapie.

 

[dwpsco]

I was a captain on one of the best fire departments in the state for 15 years. No ship or boat fire fighting experience yet.

To comment broadly "Ditch Your Powder Fire Extinguishers" is a mistake. While these Firexo look pretty good, they do not appear to be certified in the USA yet. So one wouldn't pass a USCG inspection. Instead have several choices available to you when it all goes down.

BUT, let us remember in a fire; 1) save lives 2) property 3) money 4) worry about clean up.

I have a variety of extinguish methods on board and out of habit I will instinctively grab the most appropriate one in an emergency. I am also very good with dry chem extinguishers due to experience (often we would use them on the fire department instead of dragging out the hose) so I make very little mess. People are often surprised how little dry chem you actually need to put out a fire and instead in a panic will unload the entire canister on small fires. MANY people have never even used a dry chem extinguisher. Know your gear, practice with it, even your fire fighting gear.

IMHO

Last thing I am thinking about; if you put out a fire with a Non-certified extinguisher, will the insurance company fight with you? I d would be interested to find out.

 

[MOJO]

We had three 15 lb CO2 extinguishers on board as well as a number of dry chem. CO2 is my go to in all but fires where the gas pressure can cause it to spread (think paper, wood, etc.).

 

[psneeld]

Those unfamiliar, be careful with CO2 if in smaller spaces if you chose to carry them.

 

[Symphony]

This new chemical looks promising- add it to your fire arsenal. I will buy one when back in the US
Element | E50

 

[ssobol]

1st, don't charge an e-bike inside the cabin. 2nd, throw it over the side if it catches fire. 3rd, extinguish any subsequent burning areas after the main ignition source is gone.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I have a variety of extinguish methods on board and out of habit I will instinctively grab the most appropriate one in an emergency. I am also very good with dry chem extinguishers due to experience (often we would use them on the fire department instead of dragging out the hose) so I make very little mess. People are often surprised how little dry chem you actually need to put out a fire and instead in a panic will unload the entire canister on small fires.

Yup. We had a fire training exercise with the local Fire Dept in the parking lot at work. Bushel bucket with kero soaked rags in the bottom. All that was needed was a little squirt. I once forgot about the bacon grease in the skillet I was warming to dump and it was blazing. Removed the baking soda from the fridge and one little shake and it was all over except the smoke and the stink. Couldn't have been more than a couple of tablespoons.

 

[psneeld]

Occasionally, ebike batteries have been reported to explode...I think I would keep my distance.

Better to charge in a safe place or container to begin with.

 

[Southern Boater]

A friend of mine woke up at 3am to the sound of his smoke alarm. He went in to the saloon to find his e bike battery on fire. This guy is a retired Royal Navy submarine officer. So let’s say he probably doesn’t easily panic.
He grabbed his builder supplied and insurance approved fire extinguisher and discharged it onto the fire. As he says, two seconds after he discharged them he couldn’t see and couldn’t breathe. Ended up on deck in his underpants in February gasping for breath.
The good news was the fire was out. The bad news is it took him and his wife more than a week to clean up. He said they found powder everywhere including in the other end of the boat in the master clothes drawers. Powder got literally everywhere.
We got rid of ours and replaced them with Firexo. Same form size and rated for the same types of fires as powder but liquid based so clean up is much easier.
The kicker is my powder extinguishers say on them to not use in an enclosed space! Which pretty much defines every area I’d need them on the boat.
Firexo is UK based but I believe they’re widely available.

As has already been mentioned further up thread, most will never experience having to use any portable fire extinguisher, thank goodness, but dry powder is impressively quick, and very little is required to extinguish any flame.
As you have mentioned, it’s frightening how quickly it eliminates all the oxygen in an enclosed space, and the mess is horrendous.
I used it in a small galley fire on a small boat, caused by a failed white/methylated spirit (denatured alcohol in US terms) as a small wall of liquid flames ran down the galley unit, one half second squirt and it was instantly out, but nobody could breathe.
The boat was unusable due to the powder mess and we went home. I bought a fire blanket for any future small fires.
I’ll look into the one you suggested, it’s always good to explore what’s new to the market.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

For small electrical fires, gaseous, CO2 or Halotron, FM200 etc, Class B-C portable extinguishers do make sense, HOWEVER, they do not take the place of class ABC dry chemical extinguishers. You should not use a gaseous class B-C fire extinguisher on a class A fire. The bulk of your portable extinguishers should be class ABC, they have far more extinguishing power than class B-C extinguishers for conventional fires, with one or two being class B-C gaseous clean agent extinguishers, reserved for small electrical/electronic fires.

I'm the first to admit that the damage done to surrounding gear, engines etc. by dry chem is horrendous, however, that is not a reason to ditch all dry chem extinguishers.

Small portable lithium battery fires can be extinguished with vermiculite based portable extinguishers.

More here Portable Fire Extinguishers; Not all are Created Equal – Editorial: The Importance of Redundancy | Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting

 

[Bud]

For small electrical fires, gaseous, CO2 or Halotron, FM200 etc, Class B-C portable extinguishers do make sense, HOWEVER, they do not take the place of class ABC dry chemical extinguishers. You should not use a gaseous class B-C fire extinguisher on a class A fire. The bulk of your portable extinguishers should be class ABC, they have far more extinguishing power than class B-C extinguishers for conventional fires, with one or two being class B-C gaseous clean agent extinguishers, reserved for small electrical/electronic fires.

I'm the first to admit that the damage done to surrounding gear, engines etc. by dry chem is horrendous, however, that is not a reason to ditch all dry chem extinguishers.

Small portable lithium battery fires can be extinguished with vermiculite based portable extinguishers.

More here Portable Fire Extinguishers; Not all are Created Equal – Editorial: The Importance of Redundancy | Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting

I am replacing my dry chemical extinguishers down in the focsil and work shop with CO2 for B and C type fires. I figure A fires I can use water. I understand that CO2 can work on lithium ion but not lithium metal. I am not aware of any lithium metal batteries in the boat. The dry chemical specifically says not to use in closed areas. I still have 3 dry chemical exstinguishers on the boat-- Salon, aft state room, and flying bridge.

Class A: solid materials such as wood or paper, fabric, and some plastics. Class B: liquids or gas such as alcohol, ether, gasoline, or grease. Class C: electrical failure from appliances, electronic equipment, and wiring. Class D: metallic substances such as sodium, titanium, zirconium, or magnesium.

Bud

 

[psneeld]

You can use most types of extinguishers, if not all types in smaller, closed spaces.... you just can't be in that space or have significant air transfer to where you are.

Just think through each situation as to source, fuel, best agent, how/where to fight it from.

Many do not even try to put the fire origin downwind as quickly as possible to eliminate smoke from as many spaces as possible....it helps with some agents too.

Of course try and be prepared to minimize panic.... the real killer in emergencies.

 

[Bud]

You can use most types of extinguishers, if not all types in smaller, closed spaces.... you just can't be in that space or have significant air transfer to where you are.

Just think through each situation as to source, fuel, best agent, how/where to fight it from.

Many do not even try to put the fire origin downwind as quickly as possible to eliminate smoke from as many spaces as possible....it helps with some agents too.

Of course try and be prepared to minimize panic.... the real killer in emergencies.

Thats the thing, its hard to stop and think about what class fire exstinguisher is being used in conjuction with what is feeding the fire (A,B,C) and then add, hiding behind doors while you use it. I am pretty sure my wife wouldn't be able to do it or my son in law. Seems to me to be to many hoops to jump through in the heat of the moment. The part i can't quite get over is the fact it says right on the dry chem exstinguisher not to use inside closed areas, which is exactly what most of these areas are on the boat. Basic human nature works against this, thats why anti skid breaks are mandatory. Its hard to rely on intellect when survival instincts kick in.

Bud

 

[psneeld]

"Success depends upon previous preparation, and without such preparation, there is sure to be failure." Confucius

 

[Bud]

You can use most types of extinguishers, if not all types in smaller, closed spaces.... you just can't be in that space or have significant air transfer to where you are.

Just think through each situation as to source, fuel, best agent, how/where to fight it from.

Many do not even try to put the fire origin downwind as quickly as possible to eliminate smoke from as many spaces as possible....it helps with some agents too.

Of course try and be prepared to minimize panic.... the real killer in emergencies.

Thats the thing, its hard to stop and think about what class fire exstinguisher is being used in conjuction with what is feeding the fire (A,B,C) and then add, hiding behind doors while you use it. I am pretty sure my wife wouldn't be able to do it or my son in law. Seems to me to be to many hoops to jump through in the heat of the moment. The part i can't quite get over is the fact it says right on the dry chem exstinguisher not to use inside closed areas, which is exactly what most of these areas are on the boat. Basic human nature works against this, thats why anti skid breaks are mandatory. Its hard to rely on intellect when survival instincts kick in.

Bud

"Success depends upon previous preparation, and without such preparation, there is sure to be failure." Confucius

Thats true, This is me preparing, so all I have is a simple message to tell company or family who stay in the focsile, If you see a fire or alarm goes off, use this CO exsinguisher and if it is not working use water. Instead of all the convoluting info on dry chemical exstinguishers. Not to mention once I tell my daughter and son about the downfalls of the dry chem exstinguisher they are going to check it out and see it tells you right on it not to use in that space. I agree people can be trained to use the dry exstinguishers in places they are not designed to be used, but to think I can train my company or my wife is not realistic. IMOP

Bud

 

[psneeld]

Then you miss the point.
There are simple teaching and execution methods.

Plus you know that CO2 extinguishers in a small focs'l can be deadly?

Then there's automatic systems for less able crew.

Then there's crew prepares to abandon ship while you do what you can and any automatic systems kick in.

When the perfect, inexpensive and uncomplicted extinguishers become avilable, your worries are over.

 

[DLETF]

Halon fire extinguishers are another option but more expensive.

 

[Bud]

Then you miss the point.
There are simple teaching and execution methods.

Plus you know that CO2 extinguishers in a small focs'l can be deadly?

Then there's automatic systems for less able crew.

Then there's crew prepares to abandon ship while you do what you can and any automatic systems kick in.

When the perfect, inexpensive and uncomplicted extinguishers become avilable, your wor

OK let me explain again staying in the third tense. My daughter and her family sleep in the focsile 4 of them, two staterooms. I will explain to her that using the dry chemical exstinguisher mounted on the wall can be dangerous. I will tell her you have to use just a little otherwise you won't be able to breath or see. Then, she is going to look closely at the exstinguisher and see that it says do not use in enclosed areas. She will say Dad this is an enclosed area and then I will say yes but I was told by someone on the trawler forum to diregard that, this is the best exstinguisher available. She will ask, who told you that, I will say I don't know his name just his boat name, Pssneeld, She will ask well what kind of boat does he have and I will say 19ft Mako pro skiff. She will say, Are you kidding me Dad! Your joking right. She will then do her own research and gauranteed that same day she will go buy an exstinguisher or two, that are safe to use in that area to protect her family. Then down the road a little bit she will give me a taste of my own medicine. When we are reading directions for something else together she will say no wait Dad maybe you ought to check with the trawler forum guy first, maybe these directions are wrong. A tactic I used to battle teennage logic back in the day, which she enjoys using on me ocasionally. The question I really need help answering is what kind of exstinguisher(s) do you think she would buy to use safely to protect her family.

Bud

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Something I just proposed to a Trustee at our yacht club. I was looking at my fire extinguishers at home thinking about updating. I have one I inheirited from my father that is dated 1988. Time to replace. The ones that I have onboard are up to date, but I would guess that if the members of the club looked on board and at home, we could come up with a few out of date that can't (or shouldn't) be refilled.

Every year we have several summer events that take place outside at the marina. My idea was to round up the expired extinguishers and let kids (and adults) try their hand at shooting them off. Have a "target" of sorts, not as a contest, but to give context as to where to stand, where to aim, etc. Probably isn't one in a hundred extinguisher users that has had prior experience. Now would be the chance. Plus, members would be motivated to check dates.

We could shoot off the end of a dock, but I'm wondering if, in addition to making a mess, there is some biohazard sort of issue? We could hose off the dock, but are there other considerations?

 

[psneeld]

OK let me explain again staying in the third tense. My daughter and her family sleep in the focsile 4 of them, two staterooms. I will explain to her that using the dry chemical exstinguisher mounted on the wall can be dangerous. I will tell her you have to use just a little otherwise you won't be able to breath or see. Then, she is going to look closely at the exstinguisher and see that it says do not use in enclosed areas. She will say Dad this is an enclosed area and then I will say yes but I was told by someone on the trawler forum to diregard that, this is the best exstinguisher available. She will ask, who told you that, I will say I don't know his name just his boat name, Pssneeld, She will ask well what kind of boat does he have and I will say 19ft Mako pro skiff. She will say, Are you kidding me Dad! Your joking right. She will then do her own research and gauranteed that same day she will go buy an exstinguisher or two, that are safe to use in that area to protect her family. Then down the road a little bit she will give me a taste of my own medicine. When we are reading directions for something else together she will say no wait Dad maybe you ought to check with the trawler forum guy first, maybe these directions are wrong. A tactic I used to battle teennage logic back in the day, which she enjoys using on me ocasionally. The question I really need help answering is what kind of exstinguisher(s) do you think she would buy to use safely to protect her family.

Bud

Can't even relate to your logic.

Maybe you and your daughter need to read a whole lot more on the subject and REALLY need to shoot off a dry chem in some open field on a light/no wind day.. You will both then learn their characteristics for safe use on board. Even better if you can have a small fire going to see its effect.

If that's too much, watch a half dozen videos that show their discharge patterns, etc.

If you still don't understand what I am pointing out.... well so be it.

 

[psneeld]

Something I just proposed to a Trustee at our yacht club. I was looking at my fire extinguishers at home thinking about updating. I have one I inheirited from my father that is dated 1988. Time to replace. The ones that I have onboard are up to date, but I would guess that if the members of the club looked on board and at home, we could come up with a few out of date that can't (or shouldn't) be refilled.

Every year we have several summer events that take place outside at the marina. My idea was to round up the expired extinguishers and let kids (and adults) try their hand at shooting them off. Have a "target" of sorts, not as a contest, but to give context as to where to stand, where to aim, etc. Probably isn't one in a hundred extinguisher users that has had prior experience. Now would be the chance. Plus, members would be motivated to check dates.

We could shoot off the end of a dock, but I'm wondering if, in addition to making a mess, there is some biohazard sort of issue? We could hose off the dock, but are there other considerations?

If using BC type dry chems, the agent is essentially baking soda . Non-toxic and easy to wash away.

Fire Extinguishing Agents

Information about the different types of fire extinguishing agents used to fight fires.

www.fire-extinguisher101.com

Multi-Purpose Dry Chemical (A, B, C)
A dry chemical agent called mono ammonium phosphate. The chemical is non-conductive and can be mildly corrosive if moisture is present. In order to avoid corrosion, it is necessary to scrub and thoroughly cleanup the contacted area once the fire is out. A dry chemical fire extinguisher is usually used in schools, general offices, hospitals, homes, etc.

Regular Dry Chemical (B, C)
A dry chemical agent called sodium bicarbonate. It is non-toxic, non-conductive and non-corrosive. It is easy to cleanup, requiring only vacuuming, sweeping or flushing with water. Extinguishers with sodium bicarbonate are usually used in residential kitchens, laboratories, garages, etc.

 

[BruceK]

If you stay, wholly or part, with powder types, check the powder is not compacted solid. I vaguely recall(could stop there but won`t) a TF post that at some point the powder types changed to non solidifying. They don`t spray well if the powder goes solid.

 

[CharlieO.]

Something I just proposed to a Trustee at our yacht club. I was looking at my fire extinguishers at home thinking about updating. I have one I inheirited from my father that is dated 1988. Time to replace. The ones that I have onboard are up to date, but I would guess that if the members of the club looked on board and at home, we could come up with a few out of date that can't (or shouldn't) be refilled.

Every year we have several summer events that take place outside at the marina. My idea was to round up the expired extinguishers and let kids (and adults) try their hand at shooting them off. Have a "target" of sorts, not as a contest, but to give context as to where to stand, where to aim, etc. Probably isn't one in a hundred extinguisher users that has had prior experience. Now would be the chance. Plus, members would be motivated to check dates.

We could shoot off the end of a dock, but I'm wondering if, in addition to making a mess, there is some biohazard sort of issue? We could hose off the dock, but are there other considerations?

Usually local fire departments are more than willing to come out and do hands on demo and talks on fire safety and proper extinguisher use. They will usually start a small fire and have people take a shot at putting it out.