Diesel Heater Project

[Delta Riverat]

Had this thing for over a year now, wasn't a pressing issue. Took up space in the garage before it took up space on the boat. Didn't quite know where it was going to go and get fuel and exhaust and air and be safe to operate, but now I have a plan. The heater;

The steel bracket was the start, raise the unit up so easy access to the air, exhaust and fuel.

Then the place to put it came up when I was doing the fridge change, the top cabinet right behind the microwave compartment;

But that was a tough spot to work, way up there and on top of the stairs going down to the aft cabin. I've spent some awkward bent over angle time trying to do stuff up there and that was the another delay to the process. So I built a scaffold. All you guys doing those A frame engine lifts inspired me -

Couple of 2 x 6's joined and spanning the top of the stairs to the top of my 300 pound rated Gorilla ladder in the aft cabin. Steady as a rock, no wobble and I can now do what I need to do in that space.

 

[CaptTom]

What did you figure out for the exhaust? Those things are designed to be installed in a truck where the exhaust hose is just a few inches, straight down through a metal chassis. The exhaust hose can get red-hot and there are limits on how long it can be. Plus, you don't want many bends and nowhere that condensation or rain can pool or run back into the unit.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Concern about the hot exhaust is what caused me to buy that steel stand up bracket. The port side of the closet is the wall to the aft deck and I have the polished SS double wall through hull fitting for the exit. Muffler will be outside and the SS exhaust tubing will be floating in air the entire run from heater to through hull and also in the return air path.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Because you will have the heater in your living space I suggest using high temp exhaust sealant on the joints. And getting higher quality exhaust tubing that what usually ships with the Chinese heaters would be a good idea as well.

 

[NoRain]

And a CO detector close by.

 

[Cigatoo]

following

 

[SteveK]

My webasto is acting up so I got a Vevor, mine is orange so may be 5kw.
What I have learned (not finished). It can be side mounted with the wire harness facing the up. Otherwise is drips diesel.
The exhaust is supposed to go down or sideways but not up. Well it worked in test going up about 18" just fine mounted on the side where the webasto was..
It does flood easily, (or it did with repeat failed starts) so put the line into a bottle until diesel is flowing. (I have) get exhaust pipe insulation. The exhaust pipe appears thinner than the webasto.

 

[luna]

Stevek.

I would be careful with any kind of diesel burning appliance.

If it drips diesel in any of the allowable orientations, I would send it back and demand a refund.

If it says that the exhaust is not to go up (why escapes me, hot air rises) then mount it so the exhaust does not go up. Perhaps it means don’t install it with the exhaust pointing up, eg. inverted.

From what I have seen you would be well served to acquire some high quality exhaust tube and recycle the OEM stuff. Same goes for the hot air delivery tubing, if any.

 

[SteveK]

The vevor mounted into the webasto bracket, except I soon found out with the wire cable pointing down it drips. Cable up does not drip. I have videos of vevor mounted and running sideways with cable up. I had to drill a fuel nipple hole in the bracket and all is well, at least on the final test before I had to go to my day job.

 

[luna]

Mount the poor thing the way the manufacturer says to mount it. The manufacturer of the mounting bracket is not material, as long as the bracket is fit for the purpose.

Whatever you do, follow what the manufacturer says to do. This is not the place to blaze trails. Save that for Lower Franz after a 2’ dump.

 

[NoRain]

At least one reason for not mounting exhaust running up is due to condensation; it forms and runs back into the heater. Don’t know if that is the particular reason in this case.

 

[Portage_Bay]

If you're new to Chinese Diesel heaters it is worth your time to watch John McK 47 videos on YouTube. The electronics have changed but not the guts and how it burns.

 

[SteveK]

If you're new to Chinese Diesel heaters it is worth your time to watch John McK 47 videos on YouTube. The electronics have changed but not the guts and how it burns.

THIS link to John seems to support the exhaust going above to heater.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Todays project was installing the heater shelf. It's 17 x 17 inches and allows insertion of the heater and the base vertical into the space.

With this in I'll be able to locate the exhaust location and the hot air output. Yes, I'll need a much shorter exhaust pipe. Already replaced the rubber gasket with silicone, got the nylon fuel line and the improved muffler. But I will need a shorter exhaust pipe.

Thanks for the tip on the exhaust sealant, yeah this stuff is not precision fit -

Think I'll replace those stupid studs with 6 mm cap screws too.

 

[Mainship Pilot]

Make sure you send pix of the final final! Great Stuff!!

 

[NoRain]

THIS link to John seems to support the exhaust going above to heater.

With a water trap at lowest point.

 

[SteveK]

With a water trap at lowest point.

Yes that is correct. Perhaps the instructions as limited as they are and translation should have said it cannot go up without a condensation drain, but it did not say that. Trial and error over the net brings out what can and cannot work. Watched a video of a guy bench testing gravity feed through an intravenous drip and the running heater was on its side.

I did not install the troubled Webasto, looked well done and has run for years on its side with an upward exhaust and with no condensation drain. worked in the morning and would not start in the evening. Error code failed ecu, but web says keep trying to start it is a reset.

 

[Portage_Bay]

THIS link to John seems to support the exhaust going above to heater.

Maybe it's a confusion about exhaust going up or down. The exhaust tubing can go up above the heater as long as condensation is considered and measures are taken to deal with it. But the exhaust port exiting the heater should point down.

 

[Portage_Bay]

"Already replaced the rubber gasket with silicone, got the nylon fuel line and the improved muffler. But I will need a shorter exhaust pipe."

Good you've replaced the rubber gasket and fuel line. I wouldn't bother with the muffler. The heaters aren't very noisy and the muffler isn't very effective.

 

[SteveK]

Maybe it's a confusion about exhaust going up or down. The exhaust tubing can go up above the heater as long as condensation is considered and measures are taken to deal with it. But the exhaust port exiting the heater should point down.

I have read a bunch more manuals and and watched videos to find that when the exhaust pipe is more than 2m a condensation drain is recommended (unless it is downwards exhaust).
I also have had the Vevor and Webasto apart and in videos have found that yes you can mount sideways against a wall.
The reason is how they are made. Using a 12 hour clock, the glow plug and fuel delivery is at about 10 oclock when the exhaust is at bottom and at 2 oclock when on the side. That is why it works in two positions.
My first install leaked as it was in the 8 oclock location.

 

[MVCalypso]

I'm feeling some concern re dissipating the heat of the exhaust from the enclosure where you're putting the heater. Not all the heat generated by the unit will flow out the exhaust & warm air paths. I've measured the temp at the exhaust port at 600+F - that compartment is going to get warm/hot. Perhaps you want to consider forced ventilation for the compartment? I'd also consider the temps the wood mount shelf may be subject to while the heater is operating. The wood in close proximity to those temps could be a concern.
In my installation, as partial mitigation of the exhaust pipe temps, I insulted the exhaust using car engine header wrapping. That helped the local temp some, but FYI the wrap also puts off a smell that has never completely gone away.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I plan to vent the cabinet with (3) 3 inch round screen vents installed at the top of the cabinet door which will be the return air for the heater as well as combustion air supply. So the heater and everything else in the top shelf will have constant air over when the heater is operating.

 

[NoRain]

You have combustion air coming from inside the boat?

 

[Delta Riverat]

Yes, that's the plan.

It would also be easy to just get a plastic mushroom through hull and get from outside. The boat is well ventilated with 4 large ER vents, range vent hood and 2 bathroom vents not to mention plenty leaky around windows and doors because it's 45 years old so I'm not worried about pulling vacuum.

Ok, thanks for getting me a "re-think", the possibility of diesel fumes backing out of the intake after shutdown is real so combustion air will be coming from outside and I already have the mushroom -

 

[Delta Riverat]

Got the exhaust and the intake through hulls installed;

Inside view and the bottom of the heater is much cleaner looking without those studs eh?

Also installed the return air vents on the cabinet door. You can see the exhaust through hull through the vent;

Next trip, install the heater output elbow to the microwave compartment. It's a 3" 90 degree (adjustable) standard galvanized steel elbow that I will screw to the inside of the microwave cab.

 

[Bmarler]

You’ll definitely want to insulate the exhaust hose. It will radiate heat like crazy. There’s a limit on temperatures in wooden spaces and it can be hard to be under that even with the insulated exhaust.
I worry about those Chinese heaters, we had a boat burn up recently, the owner said he saw flames coming from his furnace. Probably that crappy fuel line.

 

[Mac2]

Something like the below insulation might help you sleep better. There are more expensive versions of course. Lining that area around the heater would definitely protect the wood and buy you time if there is a failure somewhere. I’ve used this before and it’s easy to cut and screw (with fender washer) in place.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I really don't plan to use this thing a lot. Mostly in the winter time when I like to do some work on the boat and the saloon temp is 40-50 when I arrive. Presently using a portable propane heater and an electric both of which are somewhat in the way and also need to be stowed after use and take up space.

There is also a lot of air over the whole install. I found that these things flow 100-200 CFM and all that air is coming through the 2 return air vents and flowing right over the hot stuff. The cabinet will see five to ten complete air changes per minute. I will monitor the temps of course during the "burn in" phase to verify. But I don't really see the exhaust pipe getting red hot.

I think I will add a thin strip of sheet steel right under the exhaust pipe air spaced off the floor. That should address any radiant heat close to the wood.

 

[Portage_Bay]

In the for what it's worth column. I have an Hcalory 8KW heater in my shop. I know the exhaust gets hot. This thread got me curious so I broke out the General Tools infrared thermometer. Right at the exhaust pipe I saw 253 F. That seemed to me to be too low. I know these don't work well when sensing the temperature of a shiny reflective object, and it is an el cheapo. So I took a bit of carpenter's shim and lay it on top of the exhaust tube. In just a few minutes, I'd say less than 2, it started to char the wood.

And, 8KW Chinese Diesel heater. Ummm, no, I don't think so. They seem to be a copy of the much lower output originals. And I have an Espar 8KW in the boat. There is no comparison. The Espar puts out a lot more heat.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Watched a video of a guy bench testing gravity feed through an intravenous drip and the running heater was on its side.

Yeah, I saw that one too, good stuff! Completely debunks the need for hard fuel lines because the pressure just expands them. Haha, very funny, there is no pressure in the the fuel line, the diesel just drips out the pipe and onto the screen.