Detailing your Helmsman

[Helmsman]

I thought I would ask what others do to detail their Helmsman. I have always used a detailer with previous boats, and used a detailer early with this one.

I will share what is working for me. While the build was underway we originally planned to use ceramic, and decided on Permanon after some research. However, we never got around to using it on the exterior fiberglass. We did apply it to the stainless, to the windows, and to the interior fiberglass. They are still in good shape, and the ceramic allows for easy cleaning. It doesn’t seem to shine as well as a good wax does, but will last longer. According to the research I have done, the order of durability is ceramic, then polymer, and then natural waxes like Carnauba. The order of the best”look” is the opposite, with natural waxes, polymer wax, and then ceramic. Of course, all three applications are impacted by the underlying quality of the surface, and the weather conditions they are applied under.

We had a detailer apply a polymer (synthetic) wax to the fiberglass after receiving the boat, which worked out well for us. The boat still looked good going into winter. This spring I decided to detail the boat myself. I picked some Meguiar Ultimate Wax which is also a polymer wax. I used Meguiar’s metal polish on the stainless steel and then applied Meguiar’s Carnauba with Polymer paste wax to protect the SS. (The paste was wax was easier to apply than liquid to the railings) It took longer to polish the stainless than it did to wax it.

For the vinyl I used 303 protectant. I have used that product for years, and it works well and lasts about three months. During those three months, all it takes to clean the vinyl is a to wipe it with a wet microfiber towel. Cleans right up. I use 303 fabric guard on the Bimini and Helm cover.

It took a little over 20 hours to complete the detailing. I did take my time while doing the work. A pic of the water reflecting off the hull is attached.

So, what say you? What works for you?

 

[rslifkin]

For a conventional wax, my personal favorite is the Collinite Fleetwax paste. The stuff holds up pretty well, particularly on surfaces that don't see a ton of direct sun. There was one spring a few years ago where I didn't get to wax the hull sides before we launched and they were still beading water at the end of the second season (our seasons are about 7 months). It won't last more than a summer on flat surfaces that get direct sun though.

 

[FWT]

A few points.

I used Grok the other day to pose the question of best wax. Narrowed things in with some back and forth. Bottom line is that apart from pro applied ceramic, Fleetwax paste was said to be most durable.

I used that on my hull last year and got a full season out of it. It was fading in effectiveness in the forward 4-6 ft at the bow, that gets scrubbed more in wave action.

It’s a warmer shine look than polymers that can look very shiny / glossy / mirror-like. So part of the answer is in taste for the look you like.

The Meguire you mention was a virtual tie but slightly less durable. But not so much that if you like that look you don’t go wrong with it.

There was a semi-pro polymer it praised highly, possibly better than Meguire. Gtechniq. They sell most pro stuff but have a DIY product. Grok liked it better than Meguire but noted it’s more expensive. I plan to experiment with that one on the pilothouse roof that needs max help to shed water.

Fleetwax gets a bad rap for being hard to apply. For those who have not used it, do a small patch maybe 2ft square and wipe off before it dries. Applicator pad in one hand, removal cloth in the other. When you get that process down it’s easy enough.

I’m sticking with Fleetwax on my hull again.

Grok also recommended WoodyWax on nonskid. Have not tried it but probably will.

 

[grnelson98]

I have been using Meguiar's Flagship Marine Wax on a regular basis. On areas without full time direct sun it seems to last 6 months or so in FL. If there are areas that need more work before the wax I use Meguiar's One step marine compound. I wash with Starbrite Sea Safe Wash and Wax which does not appear to strip the wax as much and then hit the top sides with Meguiar's Marine Quick Wax every wash. The quick wax is a spray and replaces the wax that is lost due to the wash and prevents having to wax the topsides more often due to the sun. Starbrite products on the bridge upholstery. IMAR products on the eisenglass curtains. For the non-skid decks, I started using the non-skid wax from Starbrite and it seems good so far.

 

[Helmsman]

A few points.

I used Grok the other day to pose the question of best wax. Narrowed things in with some back and forth. Bottom line is that apart from pro applied ceramic, Fleetwax paste was said to be most durable.

I used that on my hull last year and got a full season out of it. It was fading in effectiveness in the forward 4-6 ft at the bow, that gets scrubbed more in wave action.

It’s a warmer shine look than polymers that can look very shiny / glossy / mirror-like. So part of the answer is in taste for the look you like.

The Meguire you mention was a virtual tie but slightly less durable. But not so much that if you like that look you don’t go wrong with it.

There was a semi-pro polymer it praised highly, possibly better than Meguire. Gtechniq. They sell most pro stuff but have a DIY product. Grok liked it better than Meguire but noted it’s more expensive. I plan to experiment with that one on the pilothouse roof that needs max help to shed water.

Fleetwax gets a bad rap for being hard to apply. For those who have not used it, do a small patch maybe 2ft square and wipe off before it dries. Applicator pad in one hand, removal cloth in the other. When you get that process down it’s easy enough.

I’m sticking with Fleetwax on my hull again.

Grok also recommended WoodyWax on nonskid. Have not tried it but probably will.

Collinite 885 is very highly rated. I looked at it, but wanted a polymer to reduce the number of details. Since I am under roof unless traveling, the combination of being shielded from the direct overhead summer sun, and the polymer has allowed me a once a year detailing. I may think about applying the collinite in one area over the top of the Meguiar Ultimate just to see whether that further enhances the shine, and how long it looks good.

 

[Helmsman]

I have been using Meguiar's Flagship Marine Wax on a regular basis. On areas without full time direct sun it seems to last 6 months or so in FL. If there are areas that need more work before the wax I use Meguiar's One step marine compound. I wash with Starbrite Sea Safe Wash and Wax which does not appear to strip the wax as much and then hit the top sides with Meguiar's Marine Quick Wax every wash. The quick wax is a spray and replaces the wax that is lost due to the wash and prevents having to wax the topsides more often due to the sun. Starbrite products on the bridge upholstery. IMAR products on the eisenglass curtains. For the non-skid decks, I started using the non-skid wax from Starbrite and it seems good so far.

The Florida sun will definitely beat a good finish up quickly. A detailer cautioned me about using the right gentle soap on the boat, to keep from stripping the wax. Made sense to me, so now I am really careful to use soaps recommended for wax finishes.

 

[Helmsman]

For a conventional wax, my personal favorite is the Collinite Fleetwax paste. The stuff holds up pretty well, particularly on surfaces that don't see a ton of direct sun. There was one spring a few years ago where I didn't get to wax the hull sides before we launched and they were still beading water at the end of the second season (our seasons are about 7 months). It won't last more than a summer on flat surfaces that get direct sun though.

That is a great recommendation for Collinite.

 

[KMAL]

I thought I would ask what others do to detail their Helmsman. I have always used a detailer with previous boats, and used a detailer early with this one.

I will share what is working for me. While the build was underway we originally planned to use ceramic, and decided on Permanon after some research. However, we never got around to using it on the exterior fiberglass. We did apply it to the stainless, to the windows, and to the interior fiberglass. They are still in good shape, and the ceramic allows for easy cleaning. It doesn’t seem to shine as well as a good wax does, but will last longer. According to the research I have done, the order of durability is ceramic, then polymer, and then natural waxes like Carnauba. The order of the best”look” is the opposite, with natural waxes, polymer wax, and then ceramic. Of course, all three applications are impacted by the underlying quality of the surface, and the weather conditions they are applied under.

We had a detailer apply a polymer (synthetic) wax to the fiberglass after receiving the boat, which worked out well for us. The boat still looked good going into winter. This spring I decided to detail the boat myself. I picked some Meguiar Ultimate Wax which is also a polymer wax. I used Meguiar’s metal polish on the stainless steel and then applied Meguiar’s Carnauba with Polymer paste wax to protect the SS. (The paste was wax was easier to apply than liquid to the railings) It took longer to polish the stainless than it did to wax it.

For the vinyl I used 303 protectant. I have used that product for years, and it works well and lasts about three months. During those three months, all it takes to clean the vinyl is a to wipe it with a wet microfiber towel. Cleans right up. I use 303 fabric guard on the Bimini and Helm cover.

It took a little over 20 hours to complete the detailing. I did take my time while doing the work. A pic of the water reflecting off the hull is attached.

So, what say you? What works for you?

Your hull looks great - I look forward to the input from others as I have little experience with fiberglass - but have 43048 due in a couple of months. Who made your intake covers? They look well executed.

 

[Helmsman]

Your hull looks great - I look forward to the input from others as I have little experience with fiberglass - but have 43048 do in a couple of months. Who made your intake covers? They look well executed.

Thank you. Exciting time for you with the boat arriving. I asked the guy who made the flybridge helm cover and Bimini to make those. They have some padding in them to help with stopping the air flow.

 

[rslifkin]

For application of the 885 Fleetwax I generally avoid doing it by hand. Foam waxing pad on an orbital to apply, let it sit for a minute or 3 and wipe off with a microfiber. Goes on easily enough even when I've done it at 40 degrees (F).

 

[Helmsman]

For application of the 885 Fleetwax I generally avoid doing it by hand. Foam waxing pad on an orbital to apply, let it sit for a minute or 3 and wipe off with a microfiber. Goes on easily enough even when I've done it at 40 degrees (F).

I have a dual action orbital. It works well but is awkward in a lot of spots. I just started applying the Meguiar’s Ultimate by hand after trying the orbital. It went on easily and then off easily. Just have to manage how much you’re applying. It doesn’t take much.

 

[Helmsman]

One question I had about the process is whether I would want to go through personally detailing the boat. It is a process, and if you have no time for it, or don’t have the inclination, using a detailer is the way to go. The Helmsman is an easy boat to detail, with no external wood, and wide open areas to operate in.

It would be interesting to hear how many folks detail their boat themselves versus contracting it out.

 

[NSM]

Last year I did my own. It took several days but wasn’t too bad. The only area I couldn’t do correctly was near the waterline. I cheated and smeared on deck wax but it looks like crap. I’m toying with farming it out this year.

 

[Helmsman]

Last year I did my own. It took several days but wasn’t too bad. The only area I couldn’t do correctly was near the waterline. I cheated and smeared on deck wax but it looks like crap. I’m toying with farming it out this year.

There is definitely merit to farming it out. That area near the waterline is the toughest are to deal with.

 

[FWT]

I’d consider hiring it out. But I’ve seen the work of the Mexican crews who do the work for the detailer who dominates my area. The owner talks a great game but the crews skate by doing the minimum, not up to my or anyone’s standards. Plus they want to use the products fastest to apply and cheapest. Last year they damaged a boat but wouldn’t own up to it. Took the yard 3 days to repair.

 

[Helmsman]

I’d consider hiring it out. But I’ve seen the work of the Mexican crews who do the work for the detailer who dominates my area. The owner talks a great game but the crews skate by doing the minimum, not up to my or anyone’s standards. Plus they want to use the products fastest to apply and cheapest. Last year they damaged a boat but wouldn’t own up to it. Took the yard 3 days to repair.

The marine industry in general has a deservedly bad reputation. Part of it is the record demand. Part of it is not being able to train and keep technicians. And, of course, most of it is just poor management. Probably the biggest down side to owning a boat, in my view.

I do all of my maintenance work, because it is hard to find anyone to trust with it. Over the past twenty years, with my boats, I have had only one yard out of four, complete repairs properly on boats I have owned. The other three created real issues for us. One could have killed someone with a bad electrical repair on the Carver i used to own if I hadn’t caught it. No apology when I pointed it out.

I do have a good friend who has repaired aircraft and all things marine, and could do anything on a boat that is required, including rebuilding engines. However, he got out a couple of years ago, due to the opposite end of the spectrum. He got stiffed by one boat owner to the tune of $17k in engine work, and was tired of desperate boat owners waiting until the last minute for repairs, or trying to influence or shortcut the work that needed to be done. He would still take care of me, if I needed help or training, and has done so in the past.

Just a shame what goes on with both sides of the marine service and repair industry. Probably a real opportunity for someone to create a real workable solution for it.

 

[KMAL]

So I am new to the world of FG boats - I love the discussion around products but would also like to understand what owners are experiencing on the cost side for details, ceramic coatings, wax application etc. I know that we will have a lot of apples and oranges - but nonetheless - would love input from those of you willing to share.

 

[rslifkin]

So I am new to the world of FG boats - I love the discussion around products but would also like to understand what owners are experiencing on the cost side for details, ceramic coatings, wax application etc. I know that we will have a lot of apples and oranges - but nonetheless - would love input from those of you willing to share.

Doing it myself, the annual cost to wax the hull (from the deck down) on my boat is probably in the range of $30 - 40, plus about 10 hours of my time (more if I decide to do anything beyond a basic clean and wax).

 

[FWT]

So I am new to the world of FG boats - I love the discussion around products but would also like to understand what owners are experiencing on the cost side for details, ceramic coatings, wax application etc. I know that we will have a lot of apples and oranges - but nonetheless - would love input from those of you willing to share.

If you DIY wax it the product cost is not material. A tin of Fleetwax is at most $20 and will do my boat hull and topsides. A bale of microfiber cloths at Costco (couple of dozen of them) less than $20.

But you need a polisher. On that you can go cheap corded Harbor Freight up to expensive cordless DeWalt / Makita with extra batteries plus foam pads and the kit can be $150 to low side to pushing $500

You need a TALL STABLE ladder to reach the rail areas from the ground when on the hard.

The pro detailer in my area was talking something like $800 to $1000 for hull only. So if cost is an issue whatever your year one cost might be, it’s paid for in year one savings.

Then there is your time which can be important if you still work. Would you rather take vacation days to cruise or wax? I’m an old guy. I polish one side per day and wax one side per day. Four days. 38 ft boat. If younger with more stamina you might cut that in half but that would push it. It involves a lot of up and down on the ladder moving it, etc. It takes some amount of time to tape off the edge to bottom paint. All of that eats more time than you might think. The pros will send 2-3 guys to get it done in one day.

 

[rslifkin]

Then there is your time which can be important if you still work. Would you rather take vacation days to cruise or wax? I’m an old guy. I polish one side per day and wax one side per day. Four days. 38 ft boat. If younger with more stamina you might cut that in half but that would push it. It involves a lot of up and down on the ladder moving it, etc. It takes some amount of time to tape off the edge to bottom paint. All of that eats more time than you might think. The pros will send 2-3 guys to get it done in one day.

Agreed. I'm relatively young for this forum and it still takes me a full weekend to clean and wax the hull from the deck down, polishing would add more time. Technically it could be done in a day, but there's no way I can spend that long climbing around and balancing on a ladder in one day without being miserable afterward.

 

[FWT]

Agreed. I'm relatively young for this forum and it still takes me a full weekend to clean and wax the hull from the deck down, polishing would add more time. Technically it could be done in a day, but there's no way I can spend that long climbing around and balancing on a ladder in one day without being miserable afterward.

My feet take a beating standing on narrow ladder treads all day.

My shoulders take a beating working a 7 lb polisher head high all day. The first hour is easy enough but then it gets old. Fast.

Retired, I have the time to break it up. I just need a weather window long enough for that luxury.

 

[Helmsman]

Good points and those numbers and time are accurate for me, FWT.

As I mentioned, I didn't use a dual action polisher. I believe the first polymer wax detailing for my boat in Alabama was around $1,750. The second one was around $1,700 in Tennessee. I think those prices are low relative to the coast. A professional ceramic job can be $5,000. It is actually less labor, but the detailers have to make it up somewhere for the lost follow on sales.

This last personal detailing was a bottle of Meguiars ultimate at $32, and some Meguiar's metal polish I already had (Probably about $10 to $15. Then a sore back by the third day. With a fairly new finish that has been maintained, I saw no reason to polish it.

 

[Jklotz]

Good stuff guys. Anybody do ceramic coating themselves or is that something that must be farmed out?

 

[Helmsman]

Good stuff guys. Anybody do ceramic coating themselves or is that something that must be farmed out?

Permanon and Glide Coat, amongst others, both sell a ceramic application for owner application. There is a process to get the hull ready for it. You first make sure the finish is perfect, then wash with soap strong enough to remove all of the oils and wax from the hull. The last step is applying the ceramic.

 

[KMAL]

Good stuff guys. Anybody do ceramic coating themselves or is that something that must be farmed out?

I know little - but have watched its application on neighboring boats. Clearly prep is more important - a real good wash is fundamental. Application actually looks straight forward - typically by hand via an applicator pad - perhaps more labor intensive than wax via an orbital applicator for large surfaces. Also need think hard about non-skid surfaces - you do not want to turn them into ice rinks for a prolonged period.

 

[Helmsman]

A ceramics dealer told me the difference in owner applied versus dealer applied ceramic is the amount of silica (glass) in the application. The higher the amount of silica it is, the stronger the coat, and the more difficult it is to apply.

 

[FWT]

Today was day 1 of detailing the hull. I thought an update to earlier comments might be useful.

Last season I gave the hull full polisher TLC, then applied Fleetwax paste. In comments above I basically said the bow area got scrubbed by water a bit and I didn't have much wax left.

That turns out to be false. The haze I was looking at turned out to be light dust / dirt, not light oxidation. The minute I wiped it with a damp cloth this morning as a first step the haze was gone and the wax shine was there.

So basically the Fleetwax gave me a solid one full season of protection, which is all I can ask of it.

In no need of polishing, my 4 day job just became 2 days.

With time saved, I applied 2 coats of wax, on top of whatever wax remained.

I did use the polisher in a few trouble spots, around scuppers and fluid outlet fittings and side doors where dirty water runoff gives it more of a beating.

The completed side looks 100% factory fresh. Fleetwax gets a thumbs up.

 

[KMAL]

Today was day 1 of detailing the hull. I thought an update to earlier comments might be useful.

Last season I gave the hull full polisher TLC, then applied Fleetwax paste. In comments above I basically said the bow area got scrubbed by water a bit and I didn't have much wax left.

That turns out to be false. The haze I was looking at turned out to be light dust / dirt, not light oxidation. The minute I wiped it with a damp cloth this morning as a first step the haze was gone and the wax shine was there.

So basically the Fleetwax gave me a solid one full season of protection, which is all I can ask of it.

In no need of polishing, my 4 day job just became 2 days.

With time saved, I applied 2 coats of wax, on top of whatever wax remained.

I did use the polisher in a few trouble spots, around scuppers and fluid outlet fittings and side doors where dirty water runoff gives it more of a beating.

The completed side looks 100% factory fresh. Fleetwax gets a thumbs up.

Always satisfying - maybe cathartic...

 

[KDT]

Today was day 1 of detailing the hull. I thought an update to earlier comments might be useful.

Last season I gave the hull full polisher TLC, then applied Fleetwax paste. In comments above I basically said the bow area got scrubbed by water a bit and I didn't have much wax left.

That turns out to be false. The haze I was looking at turned out to be light dust / dirt, not light oxidation. The minute I wiped it with a damp cloth this morning as a first step the haze was gone and the wax shine was there.

So basically the Fleetwax gave me a solid one full season of protection, which is all I can ask of it.

In no need of polishing, my 4 day job just became 2 days.

With time saved, I applied 2 coats of wax, on top of whatever wax remained.

I did use the polisher in a few trouble spots, around scuppers and fluid outlet fittings and side doors where dirty water runoff gives it more of a beating.

The completed side looks 100% factory fresh. Fleetwax gets a thumbs up.

Did you use machine or by hand? I am still wondering what and how to apply when its being commissioned in the yard. (Best laid plans)

 

[Helmsman]

Today was day 1 of detailing the hull. I thought an update to earlier comments might be useful.

Last season I gave the hull full polisher TLC, then applied Fleetwax paste. In comments above I basically said the bow area got scrubbed by water a bit and I didn't have much wax left.

That turns out to be false. The haze I was looking at turned out to be light dust / dirt, not light oxidation. The minute I wiped it with a damp cloth this morning as a first step the haze was gone and the wax shine was there.

So basically the Fleetwax gave me a solid one full season of protection, which is all I can ask of it.

In no need of polishing, my 4 day job just became 2 days.

With time saved, I applied 2 coats of wax, on top of whatever wax remained.

I did use the polisher in a few trouble spots, around scuppers and fluid outlet fittings and side doors where dirty water runoff gives it more of a beating.

The completed side looks 100% factory fresh. Fleetwax gets a thumbs up.

Feels good to get it done, for sure.