Cruiser instead of Trawler?

[Delta Riverat]

My '79 Gypsy was hauled 2 years after I bought it. Bottom paint, through hulls, anodes and packing.

Yard boss said "hull looks really good"

No blisters and very little "delta growth"

Soft grounding sanded off the bottom paint but didn't go through the barrier coat. No fiberglass work needed.

Only 1 through hull needed to be broken, it was frozen in place. All the others just serviced.

Yard boss took her for a spin to verify the packing job and told me "I like this boat and I'm not a trawler guy"

Yeah, I like her too, good boat -

 

[BruceK]

It`s common for a "sportfish" type boat, like Riviera or Maritimo here mostly used as a recreational "cruiser", to have the swimstep it comes with removed by keen game fisher owners to help backing down while beating up fish.

 

[ranger58sb]

This boat looks very nice, looks to have been updated, and newer electronics as well. I am not familiar with Silvertons though & never seen one in person, how do they handle on the ocean?

I can tell you the 42C can handle much more than you (or I) can. Been there, done that. Solid fiberglass hull, Blount design, etc. That particular boat has had serious updating and additions... by an owner who has a serious clue about boat stuff.

I'd say it could maybe become a bit small after 6 months on board... even though it's got really good space, design, etc. Depends on you and your lifestyle.

I mentioned CPMYs earlier. This one might exceed your budget, but it'd maybe be a likely candidate for what you describe you want to do.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1996-hatteras-52-cockpit-motor-yacht-8992736/

There are a couple older earlier '90s ones listed, lower prices, but they may still have some 32VDC systems on board (I didn't look), and you may not want to deal with 5 electrical systems (12/24/32 VDC, 120/240VAC).

-Chris

 

[SteveK]

I missed the start of this thread as we were living aboard for 10 days and relaxing. Not sure why the 4588 has not been mentioned. My story.
We had a 36 GB which we liked very much until it started to rain and we were kept inside. We noticed the walls closing in on us. Beside us sat a 4588 and we could see the salon space and we started drooling. Looked at the 4788, liked it of course, but it is only 2 feet longer?? and the 4588 price was averaging 60% of the 4788. Sure they are newer by approx 6 years.
We settled on the 4588 and could not be happier. If the Bahamas were on the west coast I can see us there in this boat.
Last week it rained most of the time. Being inside was not a concern. The pilot house seating, the enclosed flybridge offer alternates to the spacious salon.
Bottom line for us bigger inside is better for creature comforts.

OP, we all are attracted to a 'look' of a boat. You are leaning to the sportfisher style. The boats you have chosen do not appeal to me for the reasons above.
Smaller flybridge traded for a large cockpit results in less inside livable space.

 

[Kit_L]

Here's a partial list of all the cruisers that have been suggested to the OP.

Bayliner 4788

Bayliner 4588

Hatteras 42 LRC

Island Gypsy 44 Flush Aft Deck

Defever 49

Bayliner 48

Tollycraft 45 Cockpit Motor Yacht

Bertram 42+

My question to the gurus is this: which has the narrowest beam to LOA ratio? I too am looking for a possible replacement for our present boat, but in addition to two separate cabins and a decent galley, I'd like a single engine hull, with a keel and protected shaft and decent sized rudder.

We aarre assuming that a narrower hull will be the more easily driven, but this might be too simple. We assume we will need a LOA of around 45–50' to get the internal space we'd like.

Like the OP, we're not wanting to cross vast oceans, but would like to cross Bass Strait to Tasmania, in a decent weather window.

In terms of maximum fuel efficiency, do any of these hull designs stand out?

Our present boat carries 1,200 litres of fuel. She does just under 3 litres per nm at 8kn, and 4.5 litres per nm at 14–15kn, assuming a clean bottom. It may be that the present boat is reasonably efficient (and sacrificing some fuel is a lot less costly than getting a new boat!) but I thought I would ask the question to put another variable into the mix. I've really enjoyed this thread so far.

 

[BruceK]

While in Melbourne surveying my current boat, I saw a hauled out Bayliner,either a 4588 or 4788, ahem, having minor scattered osmosis repairs. Recall is the hull was essentially SD but became more rounded like FD in the quarters. It seemed interesting, while passing time waiting for the slipway guys to return from lunch to relaunch the Integrity. They have twin Hinos of relatively modest hp, set well aft, access not great, like an engine in a cat hull. Could be V drives so aft but don`t think so. ksanders will know.There was one on my previous marina, a US import,looking a bit tired, owner had health issues.

 

[PierreR]

Here's a partial list of all the cruisers that have been suggested to the OP.

Bayliner 4788

Bayliner 4588

Hatteras 42 LRC

Island Gypsy 44 Flush Aft Deck

Defever 49

Bayliner 48

Tollycraft 45 Cockpit Motor Yacht

Bertram 42+

My question to the gurus is this: which has the narrowest beam to LOA ratio? I too am looking for a possible replacement for our present boat, but in addition to two separate cabins and a decent galley, I'd like a single engine hull, with a keel and protected shaft and decent sized rudder.

We aarre assuming that a narrower hull will be the more easily driven, but this might be too simple. We assume we will need a LOA of around 45–50' to get the internal space we'd like.

Like the OP, we're not wanting to cross vast oceans, but would like to cross Bass Strait to Tasmania, in a decent weather window.

In terms of maximum fuel efficiency, do any of these hull designs stand out?

Our present boat carries 1,200 litres of fuel. She does just under 3 litres per nm at 8kn, and 4.5 litres per nm at 14–15kn, assuming a clean bottom. It may be that the present boat is reasonably efficient (and sacrificing some fuel is a lot less costly than getting a new boat!) but I thought I would ask the question to put another variable into the mix. I've really enjoyed this thread so far.

Nothing on your list is going to come close to the fuel burn you claim you have. The only full displacement boat on that list is the Hatteras 42 LRC. You might add the Hatteras 48 LRC, same engines as the 42 and just about the same mileage at the same speed for a 50% larger boat.

 

[PierreR]

I am going to add something here. Before buying a larger boat I was all consumed with the fuel mileage and fuel usage of these boats as I wanted to travel a lot. We bought our boat in late 2022 and plan on doing the full loop in 2025. Now I don't give too much of a hoot what speed I am at. I run the engines where they are happy. I cruised this boat 4,000 miles since I purchase it and the dockage and winter storage together is three times as much as the fuel bill.
With a huge range I was able to buy fuel when it was cheap. The cheapest I paid was $2.96 per gallon and the most was $3.59 per gallon. My longest between fuel stops was 1,325 miles

 

[SteveK]

While in Melbourne surveying my current boat, I saw a hauled out Bayliner,either a 4588 or 4788, ahem, having minor scattered osmosis repairs. Recall is the hull was essentially SD but became more rounded like FD in the quarters. It seemed interesting, while passing time waiting for the slipway guys to return from lunch to relaunch the Integrity. They have twin Hinos of relatively modest hp, set well aft, access not great, like an engine in a cat hull. Could be V drives so aft but don`t think so. ksanders will know.There was one on my previous marina, a US import,looking a bit tired, owner had health issues.

The 4588 radar arch leans aft and 4788 leans forward is the telltale difference. Both have a tunnel in the hull allowing a level engine mounting

 

[Sharked]

I missed the start of this thread as we were living aboard for 10 days and relaxing. Not sure why the 4588 has not been mentioned.

I have been looking at various Bayliners on yachtword and whenever I show one to my wife, she doesn't seem to like them. For us if we are going to spend 250K on a boat it needs to be one that she likes, you know the saying happy wife, happy life.

I think part of is, at least here north of Toronto in what they call cottage country Bayliners have a reputation of being cheap boats, at least compared to the Carvers, Searays. I never owned one, so I can't say if that is true, or if it is maybe it only applies to the smaller weekend cruisers.

Of the hundreds of boats we looked at so far, this one is her favorite:

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2002-silverton-42-convertible-9183874/

becuase it has been renovated and looks brand new inside.

 

[ABfish]

That Silverton looks like a solid deal. Very clean.

 

[SteveK]

I have been looking at various Bayliners on yachtword and whenever I show one to my wife, she doesn't seem to like them. For us if we are going to spend 250K on a boat it needs to be one that she likes, you know the saying happy wife, happy life.

I think part of is, at least here north of Toronto in what they call cottage country Bayliners have a reputation of being cheap boats, at least compared to the Carvers, Searays. I never owned one, so I can't say if that is true, or if it is maybe it only applies to the smaller weekend cruisers.

Of the hundreds of boats we looked at so far, this one is her favorite:

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2002-silverton-42-convertible-9183874/

becuase it has been renovated and looks brand new inside.

I understand that the look of the boat is priority in the decision. Yes happy wife indeed is necessary.

The Bayliner was a cheap boat, as in built affordable without bells and whistle for decades. The small runabouts, the cuddy cabin before expanding into the yacht class. I will not claim the 4588 as top of line finish, but it is very adequate and meets a priceline to make it afforable. The layout and design is surprisingly well thought out.

 

[Action]

I have had Bayliners in the past and I would not consider them cheap.
As in cut corners build as with as cheap material and processes as possible.
Low cost or at a price point sure.
This is done by them in several ways.

Unless you want to custom order one, there are not huge HP engines installed.
Bayliner typically will make more units than most any manufacturer for a specific line. Which lowers costs on a couple of different levels. Parts are ordered in bulk and labor is doing similar tasks repeatedly. It is a volume boat builder and has always gone to market with that way.
And options are grouped in packages which reduces the variations in building. Less mistakes, more efficient and lower cost.

Lastly on a personal experience, they do stand behind their product. I had an issue at one point with a 2755 years ago that was just out of warranty and they stepped up and gave assistance.

If you are looking to make an outward statement about your financial position in life, Bayliner isn't the dock queen for you. If you want a good solid boat that does the mission of boating for the given market segment, a Bayliner could be a good choice. Just don't take a Bayliner Cuddy far off shore. It wasn't designed/marketed for that segment.

 

[PPandE]

Of the hundreds of boats we looked at so far, this one is her favorite:

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2002-silverton-42-convertible-9183874/

becuase it has been renovated and looks brand new inside.

My suggestion would be to move on that boat quickly. As in yesterday. I doubt it will be on the market very long.

 

[Mambo42]

I mentioned CPMYs earlier. This one might exceed your budget, but it'd maybe be a likely candidate for what you describe you want to do.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1996-hatteras-52-cockpit-motor-yacht-8992736/

-Chris

This one is indeed immaculate. Very well taken care off. Hope the engines are also OK and then this one is a great deal.

 

[Mambo42]

In the topic 'interesting boats' I posted a link of an extended Defever 44. It is now 68 or 69' and it has enormous outdoor space. It was used for diving as well and for some reason nobody is interested in it. Price has been reduced several times now and I guess it can go lower. Right now it is almost in your price range, it is in Canada, so will need to bring it down to Florida, but it looks like a solid boat to me.
https://www.oceanyachtsales.com/boa...eption-bay-newfoundland-and-labrador-7638482/
[/url]

This boat is also being advertised via facebook and just saw a post the price has now been reduced to 175.000 USD
So somebody really has to get rid of this boat, it is almost a 50 % discount on the original price.

If I would be living in the US I would head over and take a look at this one. It needs redecorating, but if the basics are good this is a great boat. Wish this one was in Europe, I would change my current Defever for this one.

 

[Seevee]

Sharked,


You have a lot of choices and seem to be interested in the sport fish. Good and bads. For south Florida and the Bahamas, think of what you'll need for the conditions.



Shade is important and the sport fish and Silverton doesn't have a lot. A Europa style with the aft flybridge over the cockpit does well, examples would be the Grand Banks Europa (out of your price range), the Mainship 400 (prob too small), the Mainship 430 Cabin is nice. Also the aft Cabin boats like the Mainship 430 aft cabin, the Tollycraft, some of the older Grand banks for examples. Easy to put shade on if you want.


Stairs (no ladders), will become more important as you age, and MUCH easy to navigate regardless of age


Lower helm, important if you do any single handling


Walk around deck, important for a lot of reasons including single handling, or any kind of docking or locking... just much easier.


All of the above is an absolute MUST for me, and my Mainship fills the bill, is comfortable for living on it for several months and has speed or economy. (looper, and Florida cruiser)

 

[ksanders]

I have been looking at various Bayliners on yachtword and whenever I show one to my wife, she doesn't seem to like them. For us if we are going to spend 250K on a boat it needs to be one that she likes, you know the saying happy wife, happy life.

I think part of is, at least here north of Toronto in what they call cottage country Bayliners have a reputation of being cheap boats, at least compared to the Carvers, Searays. I never owned one, so I can't say if that is true, or if it is maybe it only applies to the smaller weekend cruisers.

Of the hundreds of boats we looked at so far, this one is her favorite:

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2002-silverton-42-convertible-9183874/

becuase it has been renovated and looks brand new inside.

Bayliner, like most automobile manufacturers made boats in all shapes and sizes appealing to different market segments.

Remember Chevrolet made the Vega, and they also made the Corvette.
Same thing with boats.

Here are a couple of photos of my 2001 Bayliner 4788 taken right now while i am sitting at anchor in the Sea of cortez.

On this boat I am 100% independant except for diesel. I can stay at anchor comfortably forever if I want.

Can drive the boat from a comfortable pilothouse, or the flybridge.
Can access the front deck to deal with my anchor and windlass safely and comfortably.
Can host well over a dozen people inside, or outside if I choose.

Be careful doing keyboard research, as it can lead you to focusing on a particular type, or make, or even model of boat without ever stepping foot on a boat.

go to some boat shows. Walk some docks. See real boats.

I told this to my son who just bought a really nice sailboat, and I'll tell it to anyone that will listen.

Google smart is one of the most limiting things in our world. You need to see things with your own eyes.

My son did a ton of research on sailboats. He knew exactly what he wanted, a blue water center cockpit sailboat. He had a list of models and makes he would consider, and he searched yachtworld every day.

I told him that the marina in La Paz is filled with benetau, and jeaauau sailboats, and they are very popular, and look to me to be more comfortable for life than his dream center cockpit blue water boat. I told him that the "Sugar Scoop" sailboats look really cool with their hydraulic swim step/transom. He laughed! No way! He wanted XXX!!!

Then he flew to Florida in Nevember and got on a sailboat. He said it was not anything like the photos. Small inside. Not comfortable for the 95% of the time he would be at anchor.

Then he got on a late model Benetau 45 with a sugar scoop, hydraulic transom, and huge interior, and guess what. He bought one!

Like I said keyboard cruising is dangerous and misleading.

 

[Sharked]

Sharked,


You have a lot of choices and seem to be interested in the sport fish. Good and bads. For south Florida and the Bahamas, think of what you'll need for the conditions.

Like everyone says, every boat is a compromise, I just need to figure out what is the most important and compromise on the rest.

I think I got hung up on the word "trawler" that most people say for a liveaboard powerboat is the best/safest. Its been interesting to learn about you all who are doing it in other types of boats.

This weekend and next weekend there are boat shows here, mostly weekend lake cruisers, but still I think it would be helpful to get inside some of them to visualize what 45 or 50ft feels like.

 

[PPandE]

An observation or two about that Silverton with the link above.

The owner effectively addressed the shade issue with the Bimini shade over the cockpit. He also added the netting to keep the bugs hungry.

That boat happens to be the same boat that I have only I can only wish that mine was that nice. It features stairs to the fly bridge and even at my age (63) I have no trouble single handing the boat, even without a thruster. I’ve also found that if there isn’t sufficient breeze in the ‘pit, the bridge is a great place to relax.

I have a table for my fighting chair pedestal which also makes the pit a nice place to hang out. My boat came with four refrigerators installed. The galley has two counter height refrigerator/freezer units and the cockpit has one ice maker and one unit that can be adjusted for either fridge or freezer.

We cruise the boat for months at a time and do not feel cramped at all. Having said that, for us it wouldn’t be adequate for a true, year round liveaboard. We still have a land home for all of our family stuff like the lawnmower, work shop, spare cars and storage buildings.

The best advice I was ever given concerning choosing a boat was to choose one sooner rather than later. If you don’t like it, sell it and buy another. The only mistake you can’t undo is losing the time you could have been boating.

 

[psneeld]

One sportfish at Ft Pierce City Marina used to have a tall, matching teak circular table in the cockpit with a propane firepit and tall bar like stools with backs around it.

Was pretty cool but the marina called it a barbeque like appliance with an open flame and the owner had to take it off while at the marina.

 

[Seevee]

Regarding comments on the Bayliner 4788. Before we bought the Mainship, we looked seriously at the 4788 and I really liked it a lot. It would have been my first choice, but my GF wanted the Mainship, so be it. I could have been happy with either. Both production boats, and you don't have the fit and finish of a high end boat, but both have a lot of features that are just great and very usable.

On the Mainship, I love the aft cabin and the galley is great, I wish the cockpit were bigger at times and the generator is really cramped into a small space. Engines are very easy to work on, as is all of the electrical and plumbing.

On the 4788, the salon and the pilot house is to die for... great. But the engines are cramped.

As for the OPs requirements, thinking that some of the larger, older boats mentioned would fill the bill better for the mission better. Hatteras, Ocean Alex, etc.

I'd argue against some of the cruisers that don't have a lower helm.