Charging 2 lifepo4 batteries of different SOC..what happens??

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Yes. With an infinite current source the battery voltage will be 14.4 from time zero so you can stop there.
 
Of course! That's the stop time, not time zero.

Sorry, misspoke. That's when the acceptance taper shows up. Sort of. Test is over when current reaches zero.
 
Maybe this is too complicated. Start at 0.5C current capacity.

I'm interested in when the amperage starts decreasing. That is entirely at the battery 's control. Eventually current will reach zero.
 
Maybe this is too complicated. Start at 0.5C current capacity.

I'm interested in when the amperage starts decreasing. That is entirely at the battery 's control. Eventually current will reach zero.
That taper effect is due to the battery's acceptance rate. Only. Nothing else has changed.
 
That taper effect is due to the battery's acceptance rate. Only. Nothing else has changed.
When I talk about a taper that's what I mean. Someone mentioned .02C above. That would translate into a voltage on the graph, if we're discussing acceptance rates for a given C.
 
When I talk about a taper that's what I mean. Someone mentioned .02C above. That would translate into a voltage on the graph, if we're discussing acceptance rates for a given C.
Whoops, no voltage, but time would be available. It would be identifiable on the curve. Voltage would be constant.
 
The charger wasn't distracted. It was supplying 14.4 to the bus the entire time
That is absolutely and completely wrong.

When we say we have a 14.4V charger, that generally means a charger with an absorb setpoint of 14.4V. Any charger also has a maximum current it can supply. If the acceptance rate of the battery is greater than that current, then the voltage drops until the acceptance rate lowers to match the current capacity of the charger. That settles to something less than the absorb setpoint, perhaps far less. In Barkings experiment, nowhere in the circuit, at any time, was anything ever at 14.4V. Look at his tabulated data - do you see 14.4V anywhere on that sheet?

A normal battery charge curve is characterized by constant current with rising voltage until the absorb voltage setpoint is reached, followed by constant voltage at that setpoint with diminishing current. The data in the experiment is all in that first CC phase.
 
As I said, all I want is acceptance of 167.

Who's with me?
 
If anyone is looking for bonus questions,
A) why do we care about charge voltage if we are going to choose to stop charging at a certain C rate on a charge?
B) why do we care about C rate, and what happens when we get too high?
 
All I need is a few, and the skeptics to drop out and listen.
 
We have been listening and then we dropped out.

There is nothing strange going on with this charge. No "irreparable harm" was done to any battery. No battery was overcharged. Everything with the batteries is fine. The charger is fine also.
 
If anyone is looking for bonus questions,
A) why do we care about charge voltage if we are going to choose to stop charging at a certain C rate on a charge?
B) why do we care about C rate, and what happens when we get too high?
But those are for other threads.
 
I probably shouldn't even say anything. But there's always the chance I could learn something.

Here is what I thought I understood about charging. This is mostly based on charging my AGM bank, but the LFP bank doesn't really seem that different in terms of charge stages?

1) The charger can supply amps. Let's say we have a 30 amp charger.

2) "Bulk" charging will occur first. Constant current and rising voltage. Since it's only a 30 amp charger (and let's say battery bank is ~200 amp hours and maybe half discharged) it will throw everything it has (current wise) at the battery bank. As a result, the battery bank's voltage will slowly rise. The charger doesn't really "have" a voltage at this point though; it's the batteries themselves that are establishing the voltage. It rises as the batteries charge (determined by the batteries, not the charger)

3) Once the battery voltage rises to what we, the owner of the charger, have set as the "absorption" voltage, then the charger will switch to constant voltage (say, 14.2 volts). At this point, because batteries can only accept so much, the current going in will gradually fall. So voltage will be 14.2, and current might start at say 20 amps, fall to 10 amps, fall to 5 amps, etc. etc.

4) Charge is terminated in varying ways, depending on what you have set. On my AGM bank, I used tail current (i.e. when at 14.2 volts the current got to X% of the bank size - in my case it was about 2 amps). You could also use a set time (say 1 or 2 hours). Maybe there are other ways.

5) When the charge is terminated, usually it goes to Float, which you set in the parameters. 13.5volts seems to be typical, especially if you may be using the bank, and don't want to just take power back down (say if you are using solar, you want the solar to keep the battery bank at 13.5 until the sun goes down, since it can). Maybe in a situation where charging was readily available you'd set float voltage lower (13.2?).

6) Some chargers have an even "lesser" stage, called storage. I mostly charge with solar so that isn't needed since the sun goes down every night.

************

So how is LFP different from my understanding above? I know there is balancing (on my bank, that starts around 13.8 volts and really gets going I think above 14 volts) but I don't think that really changes the charge stages, does it?

I wish I could understand what the scary problem was.
 
I wish I could understand what the scary problem was.
The scary problem is that this experiment, in deliberately breaking with conventional wisdom, has temporarily disconnected SoC from voltage, and then used the battery in a way that is outside all the normal BMS voltage based thresholds.
 
In that things happen that voltage thresholds are meant to prevent.
 
Ok, now we are getting somewhere. There is no "scary problem"

No BMS's were out of the equation. They are built in right inside the battery. Nothing in the charging operation was out of bounds. Everything was perfect.

There is no "third BMS", just the two inside the batteries and the charger. The charger is not a BMS, just a charger.

Nothing you have been saying makes any sense.
 
The scary problem is that this experiment, in deliberately breaking with conventional wisdom, has temporarily disconnected SoC from voltage,

How can that even be done? Isn't SOC just State of Charge? Like 20%, 30%, 80%, etc. How can that be connected or disconnected?

Maybe I just got lost about part of the test.
and then used the battery in a way that is outside all the normal BMS voltage based thresholds.
Wait, they used the battery? I thought he was just charging the bank.
 
I can define an experiment showing how much overcharging takes place in the original experiment.

In graph terms, overcharging begins when B2 acceptance rate drops below .02C for the battery and ends when charge stops. The amount of energy is the volume under the curve.
 
@Delta Riverat
I do think that BS said the BMS's never activated to say anything, like "Bar the door!" or whatever. So it was apparently fine with everything.
 
Wait, they used the battery? I thought he was just charging the bank.
Go back and look at the experiment. It began with taking two batteries of differing SoC, connecting them in parallel and starting a charge cycle.
 
Here is a question:

On some boats, there is an AGM start battery. Then alternator charging goes to and through an Orion that is connected to the positive post of that start battery and on to the house bank.

Obviously, a start battery is re-charged within minutes (if that) of starting the engine; so if you motor along all day, all of that alternator charging is STILL going in/to/though the start battery on its way to the Orion and the house bank.

Maybe that's not the way you would handle start battery charging in a perfect world, but it doesn't seem to drastically reduce their life. I was thinking that was just because the start battery is like, "No sorry, I'm full, pass the potatoes to the next guy."

Would that be different with LFP? Is that the problem?
 
Go back and look at the experiment. It began with taking two batteries of differing SoC, connecting them in parallel and starting a charge cycle.
Yes but you said "using" the battery. Doesn't that mean attaching a load and .... using the power stored in the battery to power that load?
 
Hey Jeff, not that I care, but what anchor did you use the other day when you posted at around midnight you just anchored.
 
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