Buying a boat without a broker

[Benjay]

I am aware of the basic evolution of a yacht transaction but wanted to see if anyone had any useful tips from experience after having bought a boat without a broker, whether or not the seller used a broker.

I am planning to find a boat, do an initial viewing, and make an offer, conditional on survey. I will expect to use a Purchase & Sales Agreement of some sort. If no broker at all, then I expect we would find a closing agent to hold the deposit in escrow.

Is it reasonable to “take off 5-6%” from the listing price due to the absence of the buyer’s broker and associated commission?

I am aware I need to pay for the haulout, hull surveyor and engine surveyor. Does the buyer pay for fuel too?

If the boat has pods, I’d like to get drive unit (gear) oil samples which would need to be done when out of the water. Is this normally done and expected?

With the engine oil samples, what if they have just changed the oil? Will it appear in good condition and mask a problem?

Anything else? Thanks so much.

 

[Comodave]

I am aware of the basic evolution of a yacht transaction but wanted to see if anyone had any useful tips from experience after having bought a boat without a broker, whether or not the seller used a broker.

I am planning to find a boat, do an initial viewing, and make an offer, conditional on survey. I will expect to use a Purchase & Sales Agreement of some sort. If no broker at all, then I expect we would find a closing agent to hold the deposit in escrow.

Is it reasonable to “take off 5-6%” from the listing price due to the absence of the buyer’s broker and associated commission?

I am aware I need to pay for the haulout, hull surveyor and engine surveyor. Does the buyer pay for fuel too?

If the boat has pods, I’d like to get drive unit (gear) oil samples which would need to be done when out of the water. Is this normally done and expected?

With the engine oil samples, what if they have just changed the oil? Will it appear in good condition and mask a problem?

Anything else? Thanks so much.

Welcome aboard. It depends on how badly you want the boat as to what offer you make.

The seller has always had fuel in the boat when we did a sea trial.

I personally wouldn’t buy a boat with pods, too much maintenance and complexity.

An oli sample with new oil is a waste of time.

 

[Judy at JWY]

Spoiler alert: I'm a broker.

By some of your questions it sounds like you need a broker. I agree with the answer on recent oil change not being worth the test. However, are you willing to perhaps sacrifice useful information because some guy on the internet says not to do it? Or are you going to consider the advice and opinions of a broker who has presumably attended hundreds if not dozens of surveys and whose livelihood depends on those opinions

The Listing Broker usually gets the full 10% whether or not s/he sells through a Selling Broker or sells to his own client. If an individual broker cuts his commission because there isn't another broker, then consider yourself either lucky or you are dealing with a desperate broker. Most brokerage houses do not allow for cut commissions. So to save a point or two and eliminate a large selection of potential vessels seems penny-wise but dollar foolish.

 

[mvweebles]

In my opinion, during sea trial, seller is responsible for all boat operational costs and responsibilities. That includes fuel, but frankly, I want them to provide a captain - if the engines overheat during 5-10 min run at WOT, I don't want any question on liability.

As far as saving a few points on a FSBO sale, I have seen the opposite. I have moderated the Willard Boat Owners group for 25 years. I've seen quite a few boats get informally offered with the inducement that saved commission will be shared. Many go to open market and are listed at or below the 'special offer' price meaning the FSBO price was too high. That said, best i can tell, many of the FSBO boats offered on the TF classifieds appear to be fairly priced. One recent example was offered at $125k, went to market at $135k and sold immediately. If I were in the market, I'd certainly consider a FSBO from a knowledgeable member despite my general aversion to FSBO transactions.

There are many people who will argue forcefully that brokers do nothing except list on yachtworld and wait for a buyer - not a lot of work for the money. My best friend from high school and I argue this on real estate - he's a diehard FSBO guy, I'm a diehard broker guy, partially because watching him sell stuff makes me cringe. But we do agree on one thing: if a broker doesn't show value, they have no place in the transaction. I just believe a good broker provides knowledge, leadership, and experience that results in a better result in more ways than just highest profit.

In short, in my opinion, FSBO sellers are sometimes greedy and overprice their asset. 5%-10% savings on an overpriced item is no bargain. I also hate viewing a boat (or home) when the owner is around and therefore avoid FSBO listings. No idea if I'm an outlier or this is common. Yet another way a FSBO seller inadvertently misses the market.

Assuming you are looking at a larger boat 35 foot or larger, more or less), you will need a team to successfully complete the transaction. Surveyor, mechanic, maybe a lawyer and an accountant, and a broker to at least assist with the transaction details (though they can do much more).

There are good and bad actors in any profession.

Peter

 

[jleonard]

I recently (2020) sold my Albin without a broker and the buyer didn’t use one either. I kind of came on quickly via the Albin owners group.
This guy said he couldn’t find a 40 Albin and a friend of mine saw the thread and said “ I know a guy who might be ready to sell”.
We emailed several times, during the winter I sent a lot of pictures and the oil sample results I took just before winter layup in Ct.
I was in Florida, he was upstate NY so I told him when we would be there in May to get it ready and launch so he made plans to come to the boatyard in Ct when we were there. I had just finished bottom painting so he and his wife got to inspect the hull and running gear., etc.
I told him what I would sell it for and I offered a 6 hour sea trial the next day as we ran the boat to our summer slip if he was still interested
Next day we launched but the trip was a no go due to weather. So since we were tied up I showed him everything, ran every system we could to show all functioned properly including the genset.
Next day we ran to Mystic with them aboard. Used all the electronics, ran up to wot, watched gages etc.
Once in the slip I wrote a very simple contract, we shook hands, he wrote a check and it was a done deal except for the in slip survey he wanted which went well 2 weeks later.
We were both happy with the deal.

 

[Shrew]

This doesn't make a ton of sense. The seller lists the boat with a broker. The buyer calls the broker and works out a deal. The appropriate question would be around SELLING a boat without a broker.

What you're describing is buying a boat without a Buyer's Broker, which is amazingly common. I've never bought a house or a boat with a 'Buyers' Broker'. You don't have any control over whether the seller has a broker. Honestly, a boat being listed without a broker isn't all that common.

If the boat is listed with a broker, the brokers commission is between the seller and the broker. The broker takes their fees from the sellers end, not your end.

You will never, ever, ever get a listing broker to agree to split his commission with a buyer in the absence of a buying broker. That is a courtesy amongst brokers which will not be extended to you.

 

[smitty477]

I recently (2020) sold my Albin without a broker and the buyer didn’t use one either. I kind of came on quickly via the Albin owners group.
This guy said he couldn’t find a 40 Albin and a friend of mine saw the thread and said “ I know a guy who might be ready to sell”.
We emailed several times, during the winter I sent a lot of pictures and the oil sample results I took just before winter layup in Ct.
I was in Florida, he was upstate NY so I told him when we would be there in May to get it ready and launch so he made plans to come to the boatyard in Ct when we were there. I had just finished bottom painting so he and his wife got to inspect the hull and running gear., etc.
I told him what I would sell it for and I offered a 6 hour sea trial the next day as we ran the boat to our summer slip if he was still interested
Next day we launched but the trip was a no go due to weather. So since we were tied up I showed him everything, ran every system we could to show all functioned properly including the genset.
Next day we ran to Mystic with them aboard. Used all the electronics, ran up to wot, watched gages etc.
Once in the slip I wrote a very simple contract, we shook hands, he wrote a check and it was a done deal except for the in slip survey he wanted which went well 2 weeks later.
We were both happy with the deal.

That sounds like a really great transaction for all.
Similarly, we have bought and sold boats without brokers and with brokers with no significant differences between the two.
There were some problems with brokers and without depending upon the exact parties involved at the time.

 

[Shrew]

As for the process without a broker on either the buyer's or seller's side......

Both parties would be wise to hire someone to escrow the deposit, pay-off funds and the title.

It protects both sides.

As a seller I would never take a personal check, cashiers check or certified check. I would take cash or a wire transfer only.

As a buyer I would not hand over cash, wire transfer, bank check/cashiers, or certified check without the title in hand.

In this we have a stand-off. This is where an Title and Escrow company come in. They hold the deposit under the conditions of the P&S. They hold the title under the conditions of the P&S. They take the wire money and confirm it cleared into their escrow account. They deliver the title to the buyer and release the funds to the seller.

I once had a house purchase fall through. The seller failed to meet the Time and Date terms of the closing on the P&S. A few hours later, they wanted to close, however I already had an accepted offer on a different house. The selling broker insisted that we would forfeit our deposit (10%). The Title and Escrow company laughed at this and assured me I was getting my deposit back. I got my money back in my account via wire the next morning.

 

[Jorgeinseal]

Having gone through this process recently, if you do not plan on hiring a buyer's broker then be very suspicious of what the sellers broker tells you. The seller provides the boat, and it is up to you to find its faults if any. Price reductions would be appropriate after surveys and sea trials if issues are found. Look and test everything possible, including bilges. Good luck!

 

[keith c]

The advantage of a non broker sale in Louisiana that the buyers pays no sales tax which in our fine state can be 10% !

 

[Shrew]

Having gone through this process recently, if you do not plan on hiring a buyer's broker then be very suspicious of what the sellers broker tells you. The seller provides the boat, and it is up to you to find its faults if any. Price reductions would be appropriate after surveys and sea trials if issues are found. Look and test everything possible, including bilges. Good luck!

Agreed. The listing broker has the fiduciary responsibility to the seller, not the buyer. The listing broker is the Sellers agent, not yours. That being said, the listing broker is typically bound by ethics and in many cases state laws.

However, I would take anything said by the listing broker as nothing more than a 'sales pitch'.

 

[slowgoesit]

I am aware of the basic evolution of a yacht transaction but wanted to see if anyone had any useful tips from experience after having bought a boat without a broker, whether or not the seller used a broker.

I am planning to find a boat, do an initial viewing, and make an offer, conditional on survey. I will expect to use a Purchase & Sales Agreement of some sort. If no broker at all, then I expect we would find a closing agent to hold the deposit in escrow. You're on the right track so far!

Is it reasonable to “take off 5-6%” from the listing price due to the absence of the buyer’s broker and associated commission? The is worth what you are willing to pay for it. If the FSBO boat is priced to sell, in a seller's market, consider a full price offer. If you feel it is priced too high for the market, make a commiserate offer, lower than asking price.

I am aware I need to pay for the haulout, hull surveyor and engine surveyor. Does the buyer pay for fuel too? The seller provides the fuel for sea trial. If the tanks are much more than 1/4 full, I would make a note in the P&S agreement that the offer is for the boat with XXX gallons of fuel in it. Especially with today's fuel prices, it can make a significant difference. For instance our boat holds 2000 gallons, which is over $10k. It is not unheard of for someone to remove much of the fuel from the seller's boat prior to turning it over to the buyer. (yes, I'm speaking from personal experience).

Additionally, unless specifically listed as going with the boat in the ad, in the P&S agreement, under description of the boat, I would also list any specific items that the broker or seller verbally stated was included in the sale, specifically, dingy and engine. Items bolted to the boat at time of viewing are generally considered to be included in the sale, but it doesn't hurt to list them anyway. Some other items you may want to clarify whether they are included or not may be dehumidifiers, portable heaters, spare anchors, fenders/mooring lines, tools and/or spares present on the boat, bedding, dishes, scuba or fishing equipment, etc. It all adds up, and you'd be surprised what this stuff costs/adds to the price of you new boat, especially if you don't already have it from another boat . . . Sometimes they convey, sometimes not, but it's best to clarify prior to making an offer. If they say it conveys, LIST IT!

If the boat has pods, I’d like to get drive unit (gear) oil samples which would need to be done when out of the water. Is this normally done and expected? Yes, and recommended.

With the engine oil samples, what if they have just changed the oil? Will it appear in good condition and mask a problem? Definitely won't show a "true" representation of the engine/transmission, but I'd sample anyway, AFTER the sea trial, and if the samples come back with ANY DISCREPANCIES WHATSOEVER, then further investigation is needed.

Anything else? Thanks so much.

If you someone who has/had a similar boat, consider asking them to go with you for a thorough inspection of the boat, either before or after the initial showing, and possibly after accepted P&S, but DEFINITELY prior to official survey. Very possibly that walk thru will save you the cost of a professional survey/haulout. If the seller/broker doesn't want to give you the time for a thorough, personal inspection prior to survey, find another boat, and another broker. JMHO

 

[garbler]

It’s a big mistake painting all brokers with the same brush regardless of which party they represent. It doesn’t take a lot of sleuthing or research to ID the really good brokers. Nobody has mentioned that good knowledgeable brokers depend a lot on return clients and if they misrepresent or screw a boat seller or buyer they are burning several bridges, ie, return business and reputation on the talkative waterfront. Good long standing brokerage houses that have a number of brokers normally only take onboard quality people as the business is only as good as their staff. Harbors, YC’s and various boating associations are never shy about trying to keep brokers aboveboard. The sleazy operators usually don’t last long and rarely work in the better brokerages. There are always exceptions of course but your surveyor is the best medicine. If you have known the boat or owner for some time and are assured the vessel meets your needs, is sound and your emotions are in check and you can cover the contractural and legal hurdles it may be okay to proceed by yourself but personally I don’t think it’s smart.

 

[mvweebles]

It’s a big mistake painting all brokers with the same brush ...... Nobody has mentioned that good knowledgeable brokers depend a lot on return clients.

Good point. I would not be surprised if longtime brokers often sell the same boat several times over a 20-year career, especially those who specialize in some niche. Further, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that those types of brokers know more about the boat than any of the folks who owned the boat.

There are several places a boat deal can fall apart and both buyer and seller can get pretty dang jittery. A good broker has the experience to keep a deal moving in a knowledgeable and professional manner. Like everything else in life, some are better than others, and you have to be reasonable and realistic in expectations. A good broker performs a valuable service.

Peter

 

[DDW]

I bought my trawler with no broker involved on either side. There was no escrow - I handed a cashiers check over and the seller handed the notarized title to me at the same time. It depends a great deal on the trust you have, or have developed, with the seller.

I'd heartily agree that you must remember that the seller's broker owes you nothing, including the truth.

As far as not having the owner on board during inspection and/or trial - I don't understand any objection to that. The owner will know much more about the boat than the average - or even good - broker. Furthermore, there is a LOT that can be learned from the owner's attitude, care, and knowledge of the boat even without him saying a word.

 

[garbler]

As far as not having the owner on board during inspection and/or trial - I don't understand any objection to that. The owner will know much more about the boat than the average - or even good - broker. Furthermore, there is a LOT that can be learned from the owner's attitude, care, and knowledge of the boat even without him saying a word.

Great observation having the owner in attendance is a great aid and source of intuitive knowledge through his or her mannerisms and history. Defensive sellers are quite often hiding something be it actual known condition or real lack of how things work or don’t. For a surveyor it starts by boarding a vessel crammed full of gear and whatever requiring lost time and physical effort emptying lockers, batteries removed when layed up, hot engines starting sea trails, etc.. Understand a surveyor can never inspect or test everything not in the given time and interference limitations. Surveying is non-destructive so system components and parts concealed by ceiling or panels is just not doable.

I’ve had a survey where the owner proclaimed his motorsailer was cared for by Lido Isle Yacht Yard yearly ( high quality expensive work ) which was quite impressive. I called the yard foreman next day to find he only hauled twice both for a clean and bottom paint ? Another New Zealand built offshore cruiser where I tested the pressure water system and it ran fine through two or three test ops. The owner stepped up to say if you run it longer it will shut down and not start for a while. I’d have never caught it. And a 65’ Swan offshore cruising racing sloop with nothing more than a spreader light problem and a halyard sheave pin at the masthead. Everybody sets down to sign papers on a 1.3 million dollar sale when the buyer wants to open a bottle of champagne he found in the liquor locker to celebrate. The owner immediately tells the buyer no way I’m not letting you have my special bottle. The two gentleman got into a pissing match and the seller walked away from the deal. I though the broker was going to have a heart attack

Rick

 

[Shrew]

I bought my trawler with no broker involved on either side. There was no escrow - I handed a cashiers check over and the seller handed the notarized title to me at the same time. It depends a great deal on the trust you have, or have developed, with the seller.

That would be fine if I knew the seller or buyer well enough to trust their cashiers check or title. In most cases you don't have enough time to establish the level of trust, with a strangers, that is necessary to risk 10's or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The best grifters make you feel the most comfortable.

While someone can post that they've had an example of a positive experience with no third party escrow, that shouldn't make it the rule.

 

[DDW]

As I said, "It depends a great deal on the trust you have, or have developed, with the seller. " I did not know the seller to begin with in this case, and it was on the other side of the country. However in two visits - once to inspect, once to buy - we developed enough trust in each other that is was not in the least stressful. As a documented vessel, I paid the $25 for a title search with the CG, he accompanied me to the bank to see the cashiers check drawn, we both then went to a UPS store counter (closest place with a notary) and the deal was done standing there. Several hundred thousand. I would not recommend this, but it is an example proving that it can work.

I've had much more stressful transactions with brokers involved, now you have three opportunities for shadiness: the seller, and two brokers. If you think having a broker will guarantee a clean deal, you haven't done many.

 

[Woodstock]

When we began our search about 5 years ago I enlisted the assistance of an experienced captain who offered services including boater education, training, delivery services, etc. I paid him (hourly basis) as an advisor to help us with everything during the process including selecting the best boat for us (this took a long time), walking us through everything needed for the contract, surveys, 3rd party escrow/documentation services and transportation. We ended up purchasing from a private party with no brokers involved on either side. The seller agreed to split the cost of the 3rd party escrow services as it protected both of us. This worked well for us and I would do it this way again. The ultimate cost of the "advisor" was less than 1% of the purchase price and we stayed very involved with the process which we liked. It was certainly a learning experience!

 

[smitty477]

That would be fine if I knew the seller or buyer well enough to trust their cashiers check or title. In most cases you don't have enough time to establish the level of trust, with a strangers, that is necessary to risk 10's or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The best grifters make you feel the most comfortable.

While someone can post that they've had an example of a positive experience with no third party escrow, that shouldn't make it the rule.

You can go to the bank together when the cashier's check is drawn up so you know its authentic. You could alternately do a wire transfer.

What exactly does an escrow agent do to authenticate a title?

 

[DDW]

An escrow agent doesn't do much, but also doesn't cost much in the scheme of things. Same is true of a surveyor in my opinion, but chances are good the insurance company will insist anyway, so it is done. The broker on the other hand might do a great deal, or very little, depending on the broker and market circumstances. Saying that - from the buyer's point of view - the broker is costless because the seller pays the fee is specious. He/she adds 10% cost to the market for used boats, the question is does it add a matching 10% in productivity, efficiency, and value?

 

[smitty477]

An escrow agent doesn't do much, but also doesn't cost much in the scheme of things. Same is true of a surveyor in my opinion, but chances are good the insurance company will insist anyway, so it is done. The broker on the other hand might do a great deal, or very little, depending on the broker and market circumstances. Saying that - from the buyer's point of view - the broker is costless because the seller pays the fee is specious. He/she adds 10% cost to the market for used boats, the question is does it add a matching 10% in productivity, efficiency, and value?

If you are skilled enough to be your own boat and/or engine surveyor all the better.
I have been involved with some really great brokers and some not very good ones - you do not always get to pick.

 

[Robster_in_edmonds]

We bought our Bayliner 4788 about ten years ago or so and used the seller's broker. He was a 50/50 mix of laziness and dishonesty. In some respects it worked in our favor as he just wanted the sale made regardless of our offer, as he was going to get the full 10%. During the first three years we caught lots of installation errors on electronics upgrades made by a well-respected yard. We also had to repair a variety of issues that fortunately did not affect our use of the boat. This Spring we sold her without a broker in a very special circumstance. Two sons of a Past Commodore of our yacht club (I am also a Past Commodore) found out our boat was for sale through our mechanic, and we agreed on a price and a close date without a broker. We have stayed in touch, so when they have had issues (one brother is not an experienced boater) I've been available to talk them/him through any issues. It has ended up being a good deal for all involved.

I was shocked that our original ad in Craigslist and cross-posted to FB resulted in nearly a dozen phone calls, half-a-dozen walkthroughs and three offers in one week. The boat was well-cared-for and priced right (same $$$ as several recently-closed sales), so the 10% we saved was a significant amount of money. It helped to have a very popular model in an area where that model is well-loved and at the beginning of post-pandemic boating season.

 

[BruceK]

In Australia,it is rare for a buyer to use a broker.
I can see virtue in retaining and paying your own buyers broker if you need the expertise. The idea of using a broker who gets paid by the seller/seller`s broker, only if a sale proceeds,reeks of conflict.

 

[mvweebles]

In Australia,it is rare for a buyer to use a broker.
I can see virtue in retaining and paying your own buyers broker if you need the expertise. The idea of using a broker who gets paid by the seller/seller`s broker, only if a sale proceeds,reeks of conflict.

Term "Buyers Broker" is a misnomer in US. They are paid via a share of the commission just as expected, no special fees to buyer. Because the broker gets paid when a purchase is completed, they still need to qualify a prospect.

Not sure if they still offer the service, but Zimmerman Marine in Deltaville Virginia, a well respected yard, offered a service where buyer retains a knowledgeable consultant with fees being partially reimbursed if a sale is completed.

I cringe a bit at the term "Buyers Broker." Connotation is much different than what it is. Working with buyers is a normal part of the brokerage business. A broker who doesn't work with buyers is rare.

Peter.

 

[smitty477]

We bought our Bayliner 4788 about ten years ago or so and used the seller's broker. He was a 50/50 mix of laziness and dishonesty. In some respects it worked in our favor as he just wanted the sale made regardless of our offer, as he was going to get the full 10%. During the first three years we caught lots of installation errors on electronics upgrades made by a well-respected yard. We also had to repair a variety of issues that fortunately did not affect our use of the boat. This Spring we sold her without a broker in a very special circumstance. Two sons of a Past Commodore of our yacht club (I am also a Past Commodore) found out our boat was for sale through our mechanic, and we agreed on a price and a close date without a broker. We have stayed in touch, so when they have had issues (one brother is not an experienced boater) I've been available to talk them/him through any issues. It has ended up being a good deal for all involved.

I was shocked that our original ad in Craigslist and cross-posted to FB resulted in nearly a dozen phone calls, half-a-dozen walkthroughs and three offers in one week. The boat was well-cared-for and priced right (same $$$ as several recently-closed sales), so the 10% we saved was a significant amount of money. It helped to have a very popular model in an area where that model is well-loved and at the beginning of post-pandemic boating season.

Hello Rob - glad to see it went so well for you.
We have had very similar experiences both with brokers and with transactions that do not involve a broker. Depends a lot on who you really end up working with.

 

[DDW]

Term "Buyers Broker" is a misnomer in US. They are paid via a share of the commission just as expected, no special fees to buyer. Because the broker gets paid when a purchase is completed, they still need to qualify a prospect.

Peter.

Again, whatever is paid to any broker is ultimately paid by the buyer, not the seller. The seller does not cut a check to the broker - rather part of the check the buyer cuts is diverted to the broker. That money never belonged to the seller and was never in his pocket.

Now, the primary motivation of the broker (whether buyer's or seller's), just like a realtor, is to complete the transaction. Very much secondary is the price. He gets paid only if a transaction takes place, and economically is much better off with a transaction occurring quickly at say $200K than taking a long time at $300K. In a thought experiment, if he has a series of identical deals and does two a month at $200K vs one at $300K he is ahead each month by $10K. The economic pressure is not to get the best price for your boat, but to flip it quickly. Some value their reputation too much to bend very far that direction, but that is not universal or perhaps even common.

All of which is a long way of saying you have to watch our for yourself, the broker's motivation and goals do not line up well with your own.

 

[smitty477]

Again, whatever is paid to any broker is ultimately paid by the buyer, not the seller. The seller does not cut a check to the broker - rather part of the check the buyer cuts is diverted to the broker. That money never belonged to the seller and was never in his pocket.

Now, the primary motivation of the broker (whether buyer's or seller's), just like a realtor, is to complete the transaction. Very much secondary is the price. He gets paid only if a transaction takes place, and economically is much better off with a transaction occurring quickly at say $200K than taking a long time at $300K. In a thought experiment, if he has a series of identical deals and does two a month at $200K vs one at $300K he is ahead each month by $10K. The economic pressure is not to get the best price for your boat, but to flip it quickly. Some value their reputation too much to bend very far that direction, but that is not universal or perhaps even common.

All of which is a long way of saying you have to watch our for yourself, the broker's motivation and goals do not line up well with your own.

Sounds like home brokers, business brokers, car brokers, RV brokers, aircraft brokers, etc.

 

[mvweebles]

Again, whatever is paid to any broker is ultimately paid by the buyer, not the seller. The seller does not cut a check to the broker - rather part of the check the buyer cuts is diverted to the broker. That money never belonged to the seller and was never in his pocket.

While I understand your point and reasoning, there is a contract between the seller and the broker. There is no contractual relationship or obligation between the broker and the buyer. The money may never have been in in the sellers pocket, but the value of the boat was and he has relinquished a part of it to thr broker.

Both buyers and sellers need to be cautious in all transactions, not just boats. There are only a few bona fide fiduciary relationships in the business world, boat buying and selling is not one of them.

Peter

 

[Judy at JWY]

"All of which is a long way of saying you have to watch our for yourself, the broker's motivation and goals do not line up well with your own."

Excuse me for being blunt, but that's an obnoxious statement of gross generalization. You didn't even say "may not line up."

My goals as a broker are: (1) Get the boat sold and at a price and conditions agreeable to the Seller. (2) Find a boat with a price and conditions agreeable to the Buyer. (3) Conclude a deal that is win-win-win for all three: Seller, Buyer, and Broker are all happy.

As long as I bring a price that the seller and buyer are happy with, I don't see a conflict of interest. I represent the buyer and seller on the majority of my boat sales. I had a complaint from a client about 15 years ago on a boat where she had a buyer's broker and I represented the seller. The complaint didn't involve me (it was because the owner stripped the boat.) Other than the one client, I am quite confident that all of my hundreds of sellers and buyers would validate their value in using me as a broker.

I apologize if this seems like a self-promotion, but I could not let the DDW accusation go unanswered. And if someone reading my post thinks it is a self-promotion, then email me and I will recommend other brokers whose motivations and goals are just as honorable as mine; it's not even a matter of honor: treating people fairly with fiscal responsibility and honesty is just plain good business.