Bridle necessary?

[Jklotz]

I got into a discussion last night and wanted to get your opinion. We always use an anchor bridle when we anchor out. But what about a short lunch break or a snorkeling stop? On a calm day, if you're only going to be anchored out for an hour or two, do you bother to set a bridle?

 

[boomerang]

I use a double bridle of 2 x 35' 9/16" lines and adjust it on the bow cleats according to the depth and wind conditions. I also use a single 1/2" line x 25' snubber for more docile anchoring conditions. I use nothing but the anchor chain for short anchoring periods in calm conditions. There's no one correct method. It depends on the anchoring scenario.

 

[mvweebles]

My windlass is 56-years old and only power-in so has a clutch plate. I'm just not comfortable having any load on it so I installed a chain stop on deck. No concerns about hanging on that for day-stops. If I had a power on/out windlass, I wouldn't worry about it.

Or another way of looking at it, if there's no risk of stretching out the chain, a snubber does nothing. I still set the anchor but for all intents, the weight of the rode is what's anchoring the boat.

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

95% of the time I use any line, I use a single line snubber, not a two line bridle. And I use the snubber primarily to decouple anchor and chain noise from the boat. Yes, the snubber has a shock absorbing effect, but it rarely comes into play.

To your question, for a short stop I would almost always just use the chain stopper, and no snubber or bridle. And maybe not even the chain stopper if it's calm.

 

[ranger58sb]

Short stop, calm weather, usually chain stopper only.

-Chris

 

[psneeld]

Never used a bridle on my trawler, just a single snubber of diameter and length for the conditions.

 

[mvweebles]

Never used a bridle on my trawler, just a single snubber of diameter and length for the conditions.

I've written recently about using a dock line with icicle hitch instead of a chain hook. Granted it's operator error, but I've had the hitch come undone twice - both times I became aware immediately when I went to power set, but still it bugged me that my knot skills were so variable. That's when I pulled out the Mantus Bridle I'd picked up but hated to use because it's bulky.

I sleep better with the bridle. Takes my skill deficiency out of the equation.

At this stage of my boating experience, I really should be able to reliably tie a hitch. Pisses me off that it failed twice. But for the time being, I'm using the Mantus Bridle.

Peter

 

[Jklotz]

I've written recently about using a dock line with icicle hitch instead of a chain hook. Granted it's operator error, but I've had the hitch come undone twice - both times I became aware immediately when I went to power set, but still it bugged me that my knot skills were so variable. That's when I pulled out the Mantus Bridle I'd picked up but hated to use because it's bulky.

I sleep better with the bridle. Takes my skill deficiency out of the equation.

At this stage of my boating experience, I really should be able to reliably tie a hitch. Pisses me off that it failed twice. But for the time being, I'm using the Mantus Bridle.

Peter

We've got 3/8" chain. The thing I don't like is how difficult it is to get that rubber strap on and off the chain. If it's wet, I have to use a towel to be able to grip it

 

[DDW]

In my mind, a bridle has two possible advantages: two lines to chafe through in bad weather, and the possibility that it may reduce sailing at anchor. In tests on the latter, it seems to make no difference on my boat. On the former, perhaps, but it also depends on the leads in each case, again on my boat the line is more likely to chafe where it comes into the port and starboard bow cleat, than a single line over the bow roller.

On attaching a snubbing line to the chain, this has been discussed ad nauseam in several threads, but I use a chain grabber hook, this takes less than a second to attach or release - but it may depend on your foredeck and windlass arrangement.

 

[mvweebles]

We've got 3/8" chain. The thing I don't like is how difficult it is to get that rubber strap on and off the chain. If it's wet, I have to use a towel to be able to grip it

Mantus recently introduced a different style hook. Looks like it has more point loading than the old one but who knows.

Personally, my next step is to go with a soft shackle as @twistedtree advocates. Sizing is a challenge to me. 1/4" soft shackle says it's 1/2" or some sort of oddball math. When I'm closer to pulling the trigger, I figured I'd start a TF thread.

Peter

 

[Mac2]

I don’t have a chain stopper. I could just use the break on the windlass, in the situation OP is talking about, but I prefer more reliability. I use a chain grabber with double braid. It takes seconds to hook to the rode a couple feet in front of the windlass then tied off to the sampson post-just to take any load off the windlass. Because, why not? Im not worried about weather conditions, Im worried about the boat that drags anchor and grabs my rode. This has happened several times to me. Its usually the boats trying to set anchor. They don’t put out enough scope and drag the bottom like a shrimp boat.

 

[Bmarler]

Like mac2, I’ve got a brake on the windlass that isolates the drive assembly from the gypsy, so I’ll use that for short stops. Any overnight gets my bridle, usually over the bow roller to the cleats unless it’s blowing, then it goes out the hawse holes on each side.

 

[DWJensen]

We've got 3/8" chain. The thing I don't like is how difficult it is to get that rubber strap on and off the chain. If it's wet, I have to use a towel to be able to grip it

I had the same issue with ours. My solution is a pair of leather/synth leather gloves. I got my current ones at Costco but Home Depot was a previous source. Protection for hands and grip on that slippery rubber strap too.

As for bridle use, we use it on overnights, but not for a quick lunch stop in calm conditions.

 

[O C Diver]

First, I don't get off the boat without the anchor and bridle. Too many things can go wrong (including the weather) on a lunch hook.

I have a drag weight. It's 30 pounds of divers weights on a 2" nylon belt that's fastened with a trapped D ring. It has about 50' of 1/2" rope with it. I use it for lunch stops or waiting for a lock. It's pretty simple to haul up and drops in a 5 gallon bucket of water.

If the current or wind is strong enough to drag the weight, time for the anchor and bridle.

Ted

 

[Shrew]

I use a bridle no matter what. I don't want the force over my pulpit. I also don't have a chain stopper, so I don't want the force on my windlass either. It only takes a couple of minutes to set a bridle. It's not really a big deal.

 

[GrandWood]

Anchor goes in the water, the bridle goes on. Dont care what the weathers doing.

 

[SteveK]

I also anchor overnight with a bridle. No chances taken on pulpit or windlass due to sudden sharp tugs brought on by weather changes. The last thing needed is a loss of use to retrieve the chain/anchor. The bridle gives time to start engines and plan a retrieval.

 

[SIBERNUT]

I had a 40' MT. Was a comittee boat anchored for Benihana offshore race . Wind shifted to perpendicular to waves, couldnt leave. EVERYBODY was hurling. Took a line from stern to bow, tied it to anchor rode & let out scope till i had a "bridle" , with bow into seas. Barfing ceased. (TG!)

 

[SteveK]

I had a 40' MT. Was a comittee boat anchored for Benihana offshore race . Wind shifted to perpendicular to waves, couldnt leave. EVERYBODY was hurling. Took a line from stern to bow, tied it to anchor rode & let out scope till i had a "bridle" , with bow into seas. Barfing ceased. (TG!)

Thinking outside the box, brilliant.

 

[bluebyu]

Food for thought:
Some windlass spec's do NOT permit anchor loads on windlass.

 

[Bmarler]

It only makes sense to remove the load from the windlass clutch and shaft. Bent shaft or worn clutch are both problems easily avoided by removing the load.
My windlass (vetus branded Lofrans falkon) has a large cleat cast into the housing for doing just that. Going over the roller keeps the chain away from the boat. I built my roller assembly from 1/2 plate, so plenty strong. A bridle to the bow cleats is arranged for high load conditions.

 

[Shrew]

I had a 40' MT. Was a comittee boat anchored for Benihana offshore race . Wind shifted to perpendicular to waves, couldnt leave. EVERYBODY was hurling. Took a line from stern to bow, tied it to anchor rode & let out scope till i had a "bridle" , with bow into seas. Barfing ceased. (TG!)

Springing the Anchor line. I've done it several times when tide or current is contrary to wind direction, causing rolling.

 

[GAF]

I, too, have never used a bridle on any of our yachts, just a single snubber of the appropriate diameter and length for the conditions.

 

[Flatswing]

My bow was too high to use a bridle in many crowded anchorages to get an acceptable swing radius.
Added a big a** attachment 1’ above the waterline connected to a 20’ nylon snubber. Used Dyneema soft shackle to (semi) permanently attach one end to the “bow eye” and a 5/16”Dyneema soft shackle to anchor chain. Stronger, quieter, cheaper & more reliable than shackles/chain hooks. You can buy them commercially, but easy to make your own for $5-10, using a crown knot & buried tails. replace yearly / biannually depending on usage if you see any wear.

 

[MOJO]

I've written recently about using a dock line with icicle hitch instead of a chain hook. Granted it's operator error, but I've had the hitch come undone twice - both times I became aware immediately when I went to power set, but still it bugged me that my knot skills were so variable. That's when I pulled out the Mantus Bridle I'd picked up but hated to use because it's bulky.

I sleep better with the bridle. Takes my skill deficiency out of the equation.

At this stage of my boating experience, I really should be able to reliably tie a hitch. Pisses me off that it failed twice. But for the time being, I'm using the Mantus Bridle.

Peter

I feel your pain. An icicle hitch is not easy to learn or tie correctly but once mastered is awesome! It grabs when nothing else will. I used an icicle hitch for years as a snubber with 7/16" aircraft cable as an anchor rode - It was the only hitch that wouldn't slide on the cable.

 

[Frosty]

My bow was too high to use a bridle in many crowded anchorages to get an acceptable swing radius.
Added a big a** attachment 1’ above the waterline connected to a 20’ nylon snubber. Used Dyneema soft shackle to (semi) permanently attach one end to the “bow eye” and a 5/16”Dyneema soft shackle to anchor chain.

I have a question for you. My bow is not too high to use a bridle, but I'd rather use a single snubber over the bow roller. Problem there is I have no good place to make it fast (windlass is between where the snubber would come up and the cleat which is aft of the windlass).

However I do have a strong bow eye about 1' from the waterline, as you do. So two questions, if you have a moment:

1) I see you are using a soft shackle at your bow attachment. I take you have spliced an eye into the line... with a thimble?

2) The other thing that bothers me (in my mind only, as I have not used this setup) is that with other boats where I was able to run the single snubber back up on deck, I would always have a really long snubber. But I wouldn't use it all on the normal deployment, it would just be on deck. What that meant was that I could easily let out another 50' or so of rode if need be, just by letting out rode and (the extra) snubber together.

So I kinda feel "trapped" by the idea that I would have to haul in rode, unfasten snubber, and only then let out more rode, re-fasten snubber, let out more rode for slack.

Okay, maybe that sounds dumb, but I keep thinking about it. And it's not that I anchor every night on minimal scope assuming it will be a mill pond and then, surprise!, have to let out more rode; but there are still times when I do want to let some more rode out for one reason or another (and it could be at night or raining, someone else is dragging or has let out more scope and come close to me, or whatever).

*********
Just curious your thoughts on these points since you are successfully using this setup.

***********

 

[SteveK]

To use a bridle what does the height of the bow do to eliminate use?
What attachment point do most attach to with a single snubber?

 

[Frosty]

@Steve K

To use a bridle what does the height of the bow do to eliminate use?
What attachment point do most attach to with a single snubber?

That's not my issue, but I can take a guess at it. Let's say this person's bow is 10' from the waterline. Now their snubber attach point is 1' from the waterline.

25' deep anchorage and they want 5:1 scope.

Using bridle, they have to let out 175' of rode.
Using near-waterline snubber they have to let out 130' of rode.

I believe the swing radius would be larger with an extra 45' of rode and they mentioned crowded anchorages.

*******
As for your second question, I only have two examples. When we had a sailboat with a strong (stayed) bowsprit it was easy. We ran the snubber over the rolller and through a snatch block on the end of the sprit (thank you,Larry Pardey for the idea). Worked great, and counterintuitively cut down on motion at anchor.

So it depends on foredeck layout, strength of roller/platform, preference etc.

Now, I just bring the snubber in over the roller and cleat it off on the main, central foredeck cleat. Easy. BUT, once I add a windlass, it will be between the roller and that cleat. So no place to make fast a single snubber anymore. I could add chocks and run a bridle, but I like a single snubber. Hence my questions to @Flatswing

 

[SteveK]

So snubber attach points are either one foot above water or over the bow roller.
I prefer a bridle. If I want 5>1 I let out 125 of chain and the bridle is attached at the 125 mark as my bridle angle will place it below the bow roller with chain hanging straight down. Please explain 175 & 130 feet.

 

[Frosty]

So snubber attach points are either one foot above water or over the bow roller.
I prefer a bridle. If I want 5>1 I let out 125 of chain and the bridle is attached at the 125 mark as my bridle angle will place it below the bow roller with chain hanging straight down. Please explain 175 & 130 feet.

Well that's not the way it's calculated, so I can understand your confusion.

Basically, you calculate scope from the height at the point at which your "taut" rode would contact the boat to the bottom (not where a loose snubber happens to be hanging in a calm). So if it's a bridle, then that's where your bridle passes onto the boat (presumably, P & S chocks on the rail). If it's a single snubber coming over the roller, then it "contacts" at the roller, so that is the height from the bottom you use for calculations. With our snatch block on the bowsprit, that was the highest point, so from there to the bottom.

With a strong point on the bow 1' above the waterline, then you calculate the depth from there to the bottom.

Once you have that number, you multiply by 5 to get 5:1 scope. So that's why the @Flatswing can reduce his rode length (while keeping the same scope) by going from contact point 10' above the waterline to one 1' above the waterline. IOW he can subtract 9' from the depth BEFORE he multiplies by 5 (or whatever).