Boat seller's obligation?

[ancora]

Accepted an offer on our boat. We discovered a bad alternator, and have it on order. I have no problem giving the part to the new owner, but I do not want to pay someone to install a part on a boat that is, in essence, no longer mine. What say you?

 

[ranger58sb]

I suspect the boat may not be, in essence, no longer yours. Yet. Unless you've got money in hand, did all the transfer papers, etc.

Anyway, I'd probably be inclined to replace it, especially if you have a mechanic (since you said "have it installed") you trust and who's familiar with the boat.

Or... discussion with the buyer could be good, too. Buyer might prefer to do stuff like that on his own dime, so he'll have control going forward.

-Chris

 

[Jklotz]

You accepted an offer. Have you had the survey and sea trials yet? When will you close? Until you close, it's still your boat.

 

[psneeld]

If a working alternator was expected on the buy, then replace it.
Should be less than an hour and no more than a local hourly rate.
Can't imagine owning a boat and not just replacing the alternator myself for free (unless travel to the boat was more than the hourly rate to replace it.)

 

[keith c]

Accepted an offer?. Has a survey been done? Has the act of sale been completed and money transferred? If you have agreed on an offer but the sale has not been done, normally a survey follows and the buyer can back out for any reason including the wife not liking the color of a seat or the smell in the boat! If was my deal I would buy and install the part. Now if the sale is complete that is another matter.

 

[kthoennes]

I wouldn't want to get nickeled and dimed by a boat buyer either, but my first reaction is that an alternator is so easy to replace how much can the install be? I replaced both of mine last year and it was pretty quick, even though access to the port side was a pain in the butt and the new alternators required a small wiring modification. I tend to agree with Keith above.

 

[tiltrider1]

Until the buyer brings up the issue of a non working alternator do nothing and keep quiet. Once the issue is raised offer to install the new alternator. If boat closes with out an alternator question, give them the new alternator and tell them you think there is a bad alternator.

 

[SteveK]

If the alternator worked before the offer was accepted then you must replace or fix it. Neither party wants to make that a legal issue.

 

[Jklotz]

Until the buyer brings up the issue of a non working alternator do nothing and keep quiet. Once the issue is raised offer to install the new alternator. If boat closes with out an alternator question, give them the new alternator and tell them you think there is a bad alternator.

Yea, maybe, but I think being honest is a far better approach. Especially in this case, where the part is already ordered and paid for. The guy has an offer on the boat. He's probably going to survey and sea trial. Surely this will be revealed. If he's up front about it, the buyer will think he's not trying to pull one over and the seller gains credibility, even more so because he's been proactive and ordered the part. Otherwise, it's found in the survey and the seller reveals he's ordered the part. The buyer will be left thinking what else is this guy not telling me? Clearly he already knew about it. If I were the buyer, that'd give me cold feet. All for the cost of an alternator install?

 

[Delta Riverat]

You mean lie to the buyer? The seller knows the alternator is bad.

Oh, and by the way I just happened to have this brand new one here...

Yeah, be honest. Buyers love honest sellers -

 

[ancora]

The alternator is due Monday and the buyers wants a sea trial/survey on Thursday. As soon as it arrives I'll set a date with the Sparky, to install it. I have always done my own work, but at 89 years of age I have to pay someone now, one of the reasons to sell the boat.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Good plan!

 

[guy with a boat]

In addition to being the right thing to do, giving the buyer a new (installed) alternator may help smooth whatever other glitches arise. There are often bumps in the road during a sale deal, and demonstrating that you are trustworthy can go a long way towards everything working out to his benefit and yours.

 

[Tingum]

Good grief, how much could it cost to install an alternator you already bought? I always treated the customer the way I would want to be treated. Don’t be a cheapskate!

 

[mvweebles]

This has nothing to do with what point in the transaction it happened. What's the right thing to do? That's easy - fix the alternator now when you know it. What's hard is justifying anything else. You really have to twist perversely to make a case for inaction.

Peter

 

[soin2la]

Accepted an offer on our boat. We discovered a bad alternator, and have it on order. I have no problem giving the part to the new owner, but I do not want to pay someone to install a part on a boat that is, in essence, no longer mine. What say you?

I have difficulty with this even being a discussion.
If you believe this is "in essence no longer yours" what were you doing running someone else's boat without their knowledge?

Yeah, I don't think "essentially" fits here, that is how absurd this is and how ironic it would be, if the essential buyer reads Trawler Forum.

 

[SIBERNUT]

I supppose when you sell a car , you siphon the tank ? C'mon, man up . Give him the thing & knock $150 off the sale

 

[psneeld]

To me it might depend on what the offer was and general negotiation.

I have been known to cancel a sale because someone I felt disrespected me.... but those have been extremely rare. So I usually go overboard making the deal happen as when I want to get rid of something...the sooner the better and I don't wan't someone harassing me because they felt cheated.

I have seen a $450,000 real estate deal held up at closing because the buyer wanted a new, un-tarnished door knob and lock. That person needed a good kick in the you know what.

If a direct OEM swap, especially before a sea trial...I would just have it installed....especially if the other was failed as it may just cause issues in the long run.

 

[ancora]

The part is supposed to be delivered tomorrow, if it is, I will contact the Sparky to install it. We are scheduled for a haul out and sea trial on Thursday. We can run the boat without a working alternator on one engine, the only effect will be both tachs will not read.

 

[rgano]

Good grief, how much could it cost to install an alternator you already bought? I always treated the customer the way I would want to be treated. Don’t be a cheapskate!

See the owner's reasons above for inability to DIY. But he's going ahead with installation.

 

[Sweet Dreams]

Accepted an offer on our boat. We discovered a bad alternator, and have it on order. I have no problem giving the part to the new owner, but I do not want to pay someone to install a part on a boat that is, in essence, no longer mine. What say you?

I would replace it. I wouldn’t want the new owner who may not be familiar with the boat taking the boat out in the middle of nowhere and be dead in the water. Not a responsibility I would want to deal with. Morally or legally.

 

[Tiffany]

Accepted an offer on our boat. We discovered a bad alternator, and have it on order. I have no problem giving the part to the new owner, but I do not want to pay someone to install a part on a boat that is, in essence, no longer mine. What say you?

In the film industry we would call this "Stepping on tens to pick up ones." I recently sold my boat and at the survey stage a few things came up such as a leaking throttle shaft on the injector pump. I offered to supply the parts, the buyer to cover the install. By both giving a little the deal stayed in play and worked out. Unless the boat is fully paid for you have an obligation to deliver a fully operational boat. Pay the install cost.

 

[Moon]

I can tell you from a legal standpoint a vessel is not sold until the closing and delivery has occurred. Delivery means the vessel is handed over to the new owner. A seller is obligated to disclose all known defects under most purchase/sale agreements. In this buyer's market I would urge anyone trying to sell a vessel to be proactive when it comes to needed repairs unless the vessel is being sold "as is, where is" AND all known defects are disclosed.

 

[slowgoesit]

I can tell you from a legal standpoint a vessel is not sold until the closing and delivery has occurred. Delivery means the vessel is handed over to the new owner. A seller is obligated to disclose all known defects under most purchase/sale agreements. In this buyer's market I would urge anyone trying to sell a vessel to be proactive when it comes to needed repairs unless the vessel is being sold "as is, where is" AND all known defects are disclosed.

Interesting, I'm not an expert here, having only bought and sold 4 large boats, but I've NEVER seen a P&S agreement that states that the seller is obligated to disclose all known defects . . .
Most Marine Attorneys I've spoken to have been of the opinion that unlike real estate transactions which have specific Disclosure Requirements, on a boat sale, the onus is on the buyer to do his own due diligence to ensure the condition of the vessel being considered for purchase.
I personally feel that a legal disclosure requirement might be a good idea, but as far as I know, at least in the United States, there is no legal requirement to disclose . . . Maybe a Moral requirement, but not a Legal requirement.
Full Disclosure: I am not an attorney, so any advice given here may only be worth what you paid for it!

 

[Comodave]

In the scheme of things, what would it cost to have the alternator installed? Nickels and dimes. I would not even consider this a question. On our last boat I was going to install a new large alternator but time got away from me and I didn’t get it done. I gave the new alternator to the buyer and said he could install it at his convenience. BUT there were 2 working alternators on the boat already. I could have just not said anything about the new alternator and kept the $1100 alternator for myself but I thought that would be kinda crappy of me. So I gave it to him because I wanted him to be happy with the new boat.

 

[Moon]

I have been practicing in the maritime field since 1988 and have been Board Certified in Admiralty & Maritime Law in Florida since 1996. I recommend to my clients that they disclose known defects or risk expensive litigation. Opinions may differ but most Board Certified attorneys in my field are charging $350.00 to $450.00 an hour these days for their services. I like to make money but I like my clients more. I also hate to see people experience expensive litigation when it can be avoided.

 

[Wtrguy]

At those rates I feel like I just made $25 reading your post. Thank you for the sound legal council at the discounted rate!

 

[slowgoesit]

Moon,
I totally agree with disclosing known defects in a boat for sale. Whether or not it's legally required, I feel that it's just the right thing to do. That said, if there is a legal requirement in the United States to disclose faults with boats for sale, I'd really like to know, and to see the legal reference.
Whether I'm selling a car, house, or boat, the perspective buyer will know everything I know that's good AND bad about the item. And then the item is priced accordingly. Not to say that I haven't sold property that later had problems.
I once sold a car whose engine had major problems less than 2 weeks after I sold it. I wasn't aware of any problems with the engine when I sold it, but the buyer had a reasonable expectation that the engine should have lasted longer than what it did. I offered to pay half the cost of a new engine, including labor, and he was astounded that I did. He took the offer, and we parted on good terms.
I don't want a buyer to be surprised with defects in anything I sell. I tell them, I price accordingly, and typically everyone is happy.
Not what I've experienced as a buyer sometimes though, I'm sad to say . . .

 

[TBill36]

Personally, I want the buyer to walk away a happy customer. I'd tell him about it and that your going to replace it. We're talking about a deal in the 10s and 100s of thousands of dollars. At 89, or 25 for that matter, what is a couple of hundred going to matter. Sleep well knowing you gave them an honest deal. It will come back to you in some form or another.

 

[Kat gypsy]

Accepted an offer on our boat. We discovered a bad alternator, and have it on order. I have no problem giving the part to the new owner, but I do not want to pay someone to install a part on a boat that is, in essence, no longer mine. What say you?

I wouldn’t want to “die in the ditch” over an alternator. Invite the good karma, just fix it, then rest easy knowing your boat Is in good condition and going to a very appreciative new owner. Good deeds come back around.