Binoculars

[OldDan1943]

Not sure if this will help but I bought a 7x50 Steiner Marine II with a lighted stabilized compass from West Marine. Price??? I have a tendency to forget the price of those items for which I think I paid too much.
If you look up the price, please don't tell me, I want to remain content in my ignorance.

 

[Comodave]

We have both a 7X50 and a 12 power stabilized Nikons. Last year the stabilized Nikons were the most valuable tool on board during our trip home from Virginia, with the possible exception of the auto pilot. At first we took both sets of binoculars up to the flybridge. After 2 days we only took up the Nikons. We were not cruising at night so light gathering was simply not an issue. I wonder how many people actually go out at night. We do for the CG Aux, but we have the 7X50s if needed. We used the stabilized to pick up crab pots in the Chesapeak and they were great for reading bouys. I would never go back...

 

[psneeld]

The light gathering is helpful at anchor to check on other boats and shorelines for ranges.

Sure you can run radar all night .....I prefer not to...

And then there are those times where you dont plan on being out at night but delays can put you coming in when light gathering is a help.

I would love a pair of stabilized, but just havent felt the need. I have experience with them going back all the way to the early 80s. Fujinon sent USCG Air Station Miami a couple prototype sets for use and review during the Mariel Boatlift.

While handy, I guess I have enough workarounds to get by without stabilization, but they are great if you want to spend the bucks.

 

[ranger58sb]

But weren't 7x50 the staple simply because that was the maximum magnification you could hold by hand ? If stabilization was available decades ago, I imagine the "staple" would have been higher powered.

Is the 8x42 a good compromise between mag & light gathering?

Aside from physical size and weight... another reason 7x50 became a standard of sorts is that the (young) human eyeball pupil maxes out at about 7mm in full drakness... and the ocular lens on 7x50s is... you guessed it 7mm.

That could mean that 7x50s will "gather"more light (allow more light to flow through)... but then all of that can also be affected by lens quality, the quality of the coatings, design (porro or roof prism), eye relief, etc. Comparing equals, 7x50 usually wins (technically) at night. But a high-end 8x42 could well be better than a low-end 7x50.

And then 8x42s usually don't weigh as much, aren't as bulky, etc.

-Chris

 

[bgillroy]

Steiner navigator w/integral ilum sighting compass

 

[OldDan1943]

Steiner navigator w/integral ilum sighting compass

I have a set and discovered, one can get more light if one removes the lens covers.

 

[BrotherDave]

Aside from physical size and weight... another reason 7x50 became a standard of sorts is that the (young) human eyeball pupil maxes out at about 7mm in full drakness... and the ocular lens on 7x50s is... you guessed it 7mm.

That could mean that 7x50s will "gather"more light (allow more light to flow through)... but then all of that can also be affected by lens quality, the quality of the coatings, design (porro or roof prism), eye relief, etc. Comparing equals, 7x50 usually wins (technically) at night. But a high-end 8x42 could well be better than a low-end 7x50.

And then 8x42s usually don't weigh as much, aren't as bulky, etc.

-Chris

It sounds like you are referencing exit pupil which is really the point when discussing the amount of light which reaches your eye through a pair of binoculars. Exit pupil is calculated by objective lens / ocular lens measurements, thus your example of 7x50 = 7.1mm exit pupil. 8x42 has an exit pupil of 5.25mm, much smaller than 7x50, which can make a huge difference...only if the person's eyes are capable of making use of the extra light.

A healthy (and likely young) human eye pupil can dilate to 7mm or higher but as we age that changes. If you eye can only dilate to 5mm you won't notice the difference in 'brightness' between the two.

It's not just the size of the ocular lens that is at the heart of the issue.

 

[ranger58sb]

It sounds like you are referencing exit pupil which is really the point when discussing the amount of light which reaches your eye through a pair of binoculars. Exit pupil is calculated by objective lens / ocular lens measurements, thus your example of 7x50 = 7.1mm exit pupil. 8x42 has an exit pupil of 5.25mm, much smaller than 7x50, which can make a huge difference...only if the person's eyes are capable of making use of the extra light.

A healthy (and likely young) human eye pupil can dilate to 7mm or higher but as we age that changes. If you eye can only dilate to 5mm you won't notice the difference in 'brightness' between the two.

It's not just the size of the ocular lens that is at the heart of the issue.

Yep, I mis-spoke, meant exit pupil, not ocular lens... thanks for correction.

-Chris

 

[Seevee]

After reading this post again....
I've come up with two good offerings from BH Photo.

Canon 10x30 IS II Image Stab
Price: $549.99 list You Pay: $469.99
Fujinon 12x32 Techno-Stabi JR Image Stabilized
Price: $799.95 You Pay: $499.95

Both pretty close, Fujinon seems a tad better quality with a tad less in the customer service area, and it's a bit heavier.

I'm leaning toward better CS, with a bit less performance and less of a discount. Thoughts?

Specs below:

 

[Sabre602]

I have a big, heavy Fujinon marine binoc that gathers light like there's no tomorrow. When SabreWife uses them she always marvels at how bright everything looks.

But they're huge.

So, after much research, I got her a pair of Nikon Monarch 5 that are 8x42. They're waterproof, too. What she primarily uses them for is to look at birds and other wildlife, so the bit of extra magnification is welcome. She very much appreciates the size and weight, both a fraction of the clunky Fujinon, so that means that she can carry them when out on walks and therefore uses them a lot more than she would if they were bigger.

Stabilization would be nice, but it comes at a price (weight as well as $$). She doesn't tend to use them when the seas are lumpy, so I don't think it would be worth the penalty to get a stabilized pair.

YMMV.

 

[Hamrow]

Seevee,
I cannot say i've tried the Canon so I'll just try to add as much as I can in case any of it helps in your decision.
That Fuji 12 x 32 is exactly the one we bought. Note that we've had it only about 5 months so its not a lot of time and we've had no reason to call customer service yet so i can't speak to that aspect.
The only slight complaint i might mention on the Fuji: The eye width adjustment- when a new person picks them up and needs to adjust the width to their eyes, requires that you hold the two opticals firmly and move them laterally in or out. This movement is very stiff on the Fujis. My eyes are quite a bit different width than the admiral so we have to firmly make this adjustment anytime the other person has used them.
We also have a pair of non-stabilized 7x50s and really 90% of the time I just use them and let her use the Fujis.
One issue is you're comparing a 10x vs a 12x. Personally since my existing pair were a 7x, i wanted to jump up to 12x in order to see a significant gain in magnification.
Again i'm not trying to talk you one way or the other, obviously Canon is a well known brand and probably makes a good product.
What would be really nice is if you could handle these two, or at least something very close to these two models to see if the feel of them makes a difference in your decision, perhaps the Westmarine in your city has one or two of these to just try before you order on line...?

 

[Seevee]

Well, for my need, stabilization is a must. I already have a pair of non stab, that are ok, but not the best.

I just want the stab for things that the non just won't do, and the admiral agrees.

Hamrow,

Great thoughts, but I've tried to find someone that has them anywhere close, no luck...even West. I might call B&H and see if they will ship both with the intent of sending one back.

 

[Tootles]

The answer is yes if that's how one chooses to spend his money for that extra bit of utility. Value is in the eye of the beholder. We have a pair of Fujinon 7 x 50's and a pair of Fuji Tecnho Stabi 14x. We like them both depending on the situation. Sure, one could get along just fine with 7 x 50's but why do so if one sees value in having both and is willing to pay the price?

I agree we have a pair of the Fujinon 14x Stabilised. The extra power and image stabilization makes them invaluable to us in almost all situations.
Jim

 

[OldDan1943]

I have a set of Steiner 7X50 Marine II with lighted compass.
They seem to fill my needs.
I bought them from West Marine approx. 3 years ago. I am pretty sure I paid more than what one can find them on the internet.

 

[ranger58sb]

Canon 10x30 IS II Image Stab
Price: $549.99 list You Pay: $469.99
Fujinon 12x32 Techno-Stabi JR Image Stabilized
Price: $799.95 You Pay: $499.95

Eye relief, field of view, exit pupil diameter all seem to favor the Canon. Don't see weight... I'm a bit ambivalent about the magnifications; can't say whether I'd find 10x enough better than our 7x standard binocs... but then I'd probably be mentally balancing magnification against weight, too...

I think still on of those times when hands-on -- and eyes-on -- comparison would suit me best. If B&H will ship both, that'd be pretty slick.

Stabilization would be nice, but it comes at a price (weight as well as $$). She doesn't tend to use them when the seas are lumpy, so I don't think it would be worth the penalty to get a stabilized pair.

For us, that'd be exactly when we'd likely use them most.

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

Decided to do a little market survey of my own... especially after reading Dave's comment about Canon vs. Fuji degrees of stabilization and effectiveness on boats...

Hmph.

Don't see a perfect answer, on paper.

Neither Fuji nor Canon are "always in focus" and I really hate yutzing around with a focus knob. (Spoiled by our Steiners, I guess.)

Fuji's 5° of stabilization vs. Canon's 1° (at best) makes Fuji a clear (on paper) winner on that criterion, but that's offset by having the shortest eye relief (Technostabi, 13mm) which usually sucks for eyeglass wearers.

Canon apparently does have some gyro-stabilized models using what they call a "lens shift" technology -- 14x32 IS, 12x32 IS, 10x32 IS -- and those may be a bit better for working from a boat compared to the 15x50 and 10x42 models. Better eye relief, but not great. Still only 1° of stabilization, though.

The Fujinon Technostabi is the heaviest, but I see only a few ounces heavier than my 7x50s with compass, so not horrible, at least for me. Might be a bit much for our primary user; have to see about that with in-person evaluation. Interpupillary range might also be an issue to be considered in-person.

Fuji's Technostabi are waterproof, good. No mention of waterproofing on the Canon "lens shift" models, so I assume they're not. Their 10x42 L models are waterproof (.8° stabilization), and the 15x50s (.7°) are called "all weather." Our bridge is fairly dry, though, so not a huge issue.

For us, I'd lean toward the Technostabi on stabilization and most of the various optical criteria -- except for the eye relief, and I'd have to judge in-person/hands-on whether that can work. I still wouldn't like (detest is the real word, and I seldom use that in normal conversation) the manual focus thing. And then our likely primary user would get the real vote, likely based on whether the weight is manageable and whether they'll adjust so the eyepiece separation is narrow enough.

Given the (at least) 5x pricing for Fujinon's Stabiscope models... and their weight... I'm not considering those as viable within our budget. <sigh>

-Chris

 

[OldDan1943]

Which makes the most dramatic splash in the ocean, an $18,000 pair of binoculars or a $200 pair of binoculars?

 

[ranger58sb]

Which makes the most dramatic splash in the ocean, an $18,000 pair of binoculars or a $200 pair of binoculars?

Not all that relevant.

Which helps the navigator view the channel marker number that's 3/4 mile away in 2-3' seas?

THEN we can talk about cost. Anything Fraser and Fujinon's Stabiliscope are both out, but not because of the "splash" factor -- just because my wallet is always thin and competing priorities exacerbate that.

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

Fuji's 5° of stabilization vs. Canon's 1° (at best) makes Fuji a clear (on paper) winner on that criterion, but that's offset by having the shortest eye relief (Technostabi, 13mm) which usually sucks for eyeglass wearers.

I hadn't looked closely at the Fuji 12x32 that Seevee found at B&H....

It's not on the Fuji website, so maybe discontinued? Bits and pieces of info suggest it's plus/minus 3° stabilization, 12mm eye relied (even shorter than the 14x40s), and may or may not be made in China with or maybe without affordable service from Fuji if eventually needed. That's all just google-goop though...

-Chris

 

[Seevee]

I just compared the
Fujinon 12x32 Techno-Stabi with a
Canon 8x25 IS Image Stabilized Binocular

Both the Admiral and I tried them, adjusted them and played with them, and we both decided on the Fujinon, as it was much better, so we bought them on sale at B&H for $500 vs the Canon for about $30 less.

We've already used them a few times camping, boating and just looking at stuff out on the water. Yes they are heavy, so it works well if one can support them with their elbows on something hard. I'm sure we'll get good use on them on the boat.

 

[tadhana]

I just compared the
Fujinon 12x32 Techno-Stabi with a
Canon 8x25 IS Image Stabilized Binocular

These are quite different glasses so it is not apples to apples. 8x vs 12x is entirely different. For me on coastal cruisng, lightweight binocs are easier to use, and we have Canon 10x30 which have been terrific. Lightweight being the key. No need to rest your arm on anything. YRMV

 

[Seevee]

I just compared the
Fujinon 12x32 Techno-Stabi with a
Canon 8x25 IS Image Stabilized Binocular

These are quite different glasses so it is not apples to apples. 8x vs 12x is entirely different. For me on coastal cruisng, lightweight binocs are easier to use, and we have Canon 10x30 which have been terrific. Lightweight being the key. No need to rest your arm on anything. YRMV

Tad,

No requirement to rest the arm, but if one is just gazing at the countryside for a bit of time, it's easier with both binoculars. I have no problem holding the Fujinon for several minutes to see something, but the admiral can only go for a minute at most. Not a deal killer as the image is just super great and one doesn't need much time if only to ID a marker, boat or something in the water.

We have both, so we can choose.

 

[LongJohn]

Fujinon 12x32 Techno-Stabi JR

today at b&h for $380

 

[Seevee]

today at b&h for $380

Wow, that's a real steal. They should honor my recent purchase with the new price, we'll see how it goes.

 

[Spottsville]

today at b&h for $380

Thanks for the heads up on that price....had to order a set! Been waiting for a deal like B&Hs.

Norm

 

[Hamrow]

Darn I couldn't get that deal on the Fujis a few months ago when i needed them, but yes great deal now for those that can get it!

 

[angus99]

Thanks for the heads up on that price....had to order a set! Been waiting for a deal like B&Hs.

Norm

Ditto . . . thanks! I’ve wanted Fuji stabilized binocs and the price is unbeatable.

 

[dhmeissner]

Just ordered mine, free shipping, no tax, what a deal!

 

[TugYacht_33]

i bought a pair of 10x70 a few years back when i was up in New York city.... i dont remember the brand but those things were awesome........ they were a bit heavy, and no stabilization so when you were really "reaching out there" it was like trying to thread a needle while riding a galloping horse....... so would be totally useless on a boat in anything other then the calmest conditions
but you could read a bumper sticker from a mile away at dusk

 

[csugg]

Just received Fuji 12x32 Jr.

These have two levels of stabilization. There is a non stabilized mode. Then there is a low level mode of stabilization that lets one scan without the "swimming image". When you find your target, push the power button and full stabilization kicks in.

Haven't used them on boat yet but seems to work well on land.

Ches