Bilge Pumps: Rule vs The Rest

[gettaway]

Interesting topic and conversation. I would take from comments of how many bilge pumps or switches fail and so quickly, they must also be dealing with a fairly substantial amount of water intrusion into their bilges.
I have rule B-pumps throughout my boat, only one is used consistently because it is in a grey water collection box that pumps overboard the head & wet bar sinks & the showers. (very dumb design by Carver) The pump has not failed, but the float switch gums up with hair, soap and conditioner and causes an occasional problem.
That said, to those who seem to be changing pumps yearly- do you have water intrusion problems? seems that would be the concern.

 

[READY]

Commercial grade bilge pump form Imtra - very well made, but expensive. Product Search | Marine Products & Accessories | Imtra

Yes $1800 is pricey! But compared to the damage from a failed pump is suppose a case could be made to have one in the most critical location. I have 6 rule pumps on my boat. Have not had many issues with Rule. I think 1 failed switch and 1 pump.

 

[Celestialsailor]

This very well may be the reason Rule pumps fail now, where in the past, they were reliable…

 

[Celestialsailor]

This very well may be the reason Rule pumps fail now, where in the past, they were reliable…

Posted too soon…Rule was bought about 15 years ago.

 

[Andiamo2018]

I have installed dozens and dozens of bilge pumps and they all seem to be a crap shoot. Now I use seaflo and it makes it very easy to replace them. I also connect them to a block with sealed connectors and that makes it easy to replace the float switches which also seem to be lousy. I had very bad luck with Johnson pumps with their own float switch.

 

[kirkll]

I’m really surprised nobody has used these water witch sensor switches. I had this highly recommended by a good marine mechanic 5 years ago, and they work excellent. Still functioning fine , and work in fresh water as well as salt.

https://defender.com/en_us/water-witch-submersible-electronic-bilge-pump-switch-101?utm_id=143783458262&utm_campaign=19735474067&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid&utm_content=649599978904&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19735474067&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8vvABhCcARIsAOCfwwrFUvy7YQQTnlaTVBbJ9uaOHuYzWcQBsQylax-WJqsSP29dOOtrIg0aApCBEALw_wcB#493=19515

 

[ranger58sb]

I’m really surprised nobody has used these water witch sensor switches. I had this highly recommended by a good marine mechanic 5 years ago, and they work excellent. Still functioning fine , and work in fresh water as well as salt.

https://defender.com/en_us/water-witch-submersible-electronic-bilge-pump-switch-101?utm_id=143783458262&utm_campaign=19735474067&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid&utm_content=649599978904&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19735474067&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8vvABhCcARIsAOCfwwrFUvy7YQQTnlaTVBbJ9uaOHuYzWcQBsQylax-WJqsSP29dOOtrIg0aApCBEALw_wcB#493=19515

How does it work? Periodic sensing, switch ON if water discovered? Or switch ON when water reaches a certain level? Or...?

-Chris

 

[kirkll]

How does it work? Periodic sensing, switch ON if water discovered? Or switch ON when water reaches a certain level? Or...?

-Chris

It comes on when the water level reaches the sensor. So you want it mounted low in the bilge. I test mine just running fresh water into the bilge a couple times a year. Its worked flawlessly for 5 years. I do have a manual override switch i can just turn on the pump too, and it has a light that comes on at the helm when the pump comes on. i'm in the process of putting a second pump in for emergency protocol and i'll raise the sensor up a bit higher on this pump so if the first one fails, the second one kicks in. i'll have a second manual switch set up for that one too.

 

[Andiamo2018]

Read the installation instructions that come with the sensor. Water needs to make contact between the metal mounting bracket and the sensor. The water needs some level of minerals that would NOT be present from clean rainwater but regular fresh water from a lake or river is fine. All that is from the PDF information with the sensor you can see from the Defender listing.

These switches do sound very promising. I will use one the next time I need to replace a float switch. Ideally ONLY the bilges pumps would have power directly from the battery and they would be fused of course. If I'm installing these more or less from scratch I pick up the power at the battery switch (not the switched side of course) and all of the bilge pump fuses are right there in one place. Then the power goes to the switches. If you really want to know what is going on then a bilge pump cycle counter is great. That way you can tell if the pump is coming on when you aren't around to notice it.

I have also skipped the 3 way switch and just had ON and AUTO. That means that I have to remove the fuse or disconnect the power from the batteries when working on the pumps. It seems to me that the 'OFF' isn't a good idea as it is too easy to flip that switch and forget it. I always install terminal blocks somewhere near the pump so I can disconnect the power there if I'm working on the pump.

 

[kirkll]

Well I must have enough minerals in my well water at home because it works just fine filling the bilge with the hose to test it. I’m a bit anal about keeping my bilge clean, so I always test the bilge pump sensor when I’m scrubbing out the bilge under the motor. I want that area spotless so if I get an oil leak or hydronic leak I can see it upon inspection.

As far as wiring goes, those should always have a hot wire directly to your battery and properly fused so it comes on automatically as soon as the sensor or float is activated. The on/ Auto switch is what I was taking about when I said manual override. There are two separate power lines running to the bilge pump one from the sensor that connects directly to the battery, and the second power line bypasses the sensor and is activated with a switch. There should never be a switch between a sensor and battery… it defeats the purpose if you could shut it off completely.

 

[ranger58sb]

It comes on when the water level reaches the sensor. So you want it mounted low in the bilge.

Thanks! I was reading on another forum about pump switches that check for water every 2 minutes (or some such), and that didn't sound like attractive. Might be the Rule-Mate pumps that do it that way, not sure.

The way the Water Witch can mount right to a pump hose might mean I could use those -- instead of floats like Rule's Super Switch -- to clear up some clutter...

-Chris

 

[kirkll]

Thanks! I was reading on another forum about pump switches that check for water every 2 minutes (or some such), and that didn't sound like attractive. Might be the Rule-Mate pumps that do it that way, not sure.

The way the Water Witch can mount right to a pump hose might mean I could use those -- instead of floats like Rule's Super Switch -- to clear up some clutter...

-Chris

These things don’t take up much room and are very light weight. I never thought about hooking it to the pump hose. I just used a couple screws and put it against the port stringer.

 

[ranger58sb]

These things don’t take up much room and are very light weight. I never thought about hooking it to the pump hose. I just used a couple screws and put it against the port stringer.

I just followed links to eventually get this: https://defender.com/assets/pdf/water-witch/502734.pdf

And it shows the switches mounted like that. In our case, I'm just thinking about the pairs of two separate obstacles we've got mounted in various places now... which could maybe be reduced to single obstacles by mounting that way...

-Chris

 

[kirkll]

Looking at their wiring diagram showing a two way switch , and a 3 way hook up, I don’t think I’d want either option for mooring. I think it’s best to have a fused hot wire going directly from the battery to the water witch switch that cannot be turned off. But I do like the option of having a separate power line on a switch going directly to the bilge pump that bypasses the water witch. It makes it very easy to test your bilge pump, and if there is still a bit of water below the water witch sensor, you can pump it out dry.

Btw… these switches do not pull any power when not in use. Kirk

 

[Bmarler]

I don’t have any issue with the three way switch. If it made you nervous you could have it be a two position on/auto. Personally I like the off position for when I’m servicing the pumps.

 

[ranger58sb]

But I do like the option of having a separate power line on a switch going directly to the bilge pump that bypasses the water witch. It makes it very easy to test your bilge pump

Looks like there's a "wet rag" method for testing...

-Chris

 

[more]

My question is this - since the rule pumps are awfully expensive and there are quite a few name brands (Seaflo, Oasis, etc) that are less than half the price, I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on them. I don't trust online reviews anymore and would rather hear positive or negative experiences here. I dont like the idea of cheaping out on such a critical piece of gear but installing a second backup pump may make me feel better about it.

Rule is owned by USA corp Xylem. made in italy is good quality made in China,mexico is iece of s---t. like all stuff made big usa corporation. Seaflo is chinese brand very good quality 100-200% better vs usa rule.
simply china make best magnet motor,new technology.
50% more chepaer from Seaflo is vevor bilge pump quality identical to rule.

 

[ronobrien]

Ultra Pump switches are by far the best switches out there, but the are a bit spendy. The work and are easy to install. they can't get jammed. The electronic ones can be prone to getting splashed with water, etc and sticking on, however I do use one for my high water pump as it is well away from bilge water.

TEF-GEL - Ultra safety systems - Home page

Installed the Ultra switches on my boat. Impressed with the operation and overall design and construction. and yes they are bit pricey but what is the boat worth?