Bilge Pumps: Rule vs The Rest

[slowbutsteady]

I just had a 1.5 year old rule 2000 GPH pump fail on my boat. I installed this pump to replace my previous one (same exact make and model) which was working flawlessly but was getting up in age. Thankfully I check my bilge pump every time I'm on the boat and noticed this when I had an hour to swap it out with my spare onboard at the dock and not while I was out cruising. I tested the line voltage, resistance, and all wiring connections and they are good. No voltage drop, fuses were fine, etc. Old pump worked fine when I installed it.

My question is this - since the rule pumps are awfully expensive and there are quite a few name brands (Seaflo, Oasis, etc) that are less than half the price, I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on them. I don't trust online reviews anymore and would rather hear positive or negative experiences here. I dont like the idea of cheaping out on such a critical piece of gear but installing a second backup pump may make me feel better about it.

 

[Mac2]

Are using the UL listed bilge pumps? There is a difference. UL is commercial rated and comes with the longer (around 6 feet) leads.

 

[fgarriso]

I changed everything to Johnson Pumps 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[Comodave]

I like Johnson pumps too.

 

[SteveK]

I changed everything to Johnson Pumps 4 or 5 years ago.

I like Johnson pumps too.

May I ask why?

 

[Comodave]

I saw a review on the old John Grisviscus TV show, Ship Shape TV, and liked how they were built.

 

[Phil Fill]

Lately I been replacing with Marine West with auto floats built in. About 15 years ago I installed back up pumps in each area. I sleep a little better.

 

[motion30]

In my experience..... I don't particularly like the rule pumps, I have been transiting to the Johnson pumps when one of my existing ones go back
But I found that the role floatswitches are really the problem. No other way to say they suck. Mine have always stuck on the on position and then burn out the pump.

 

[SteveK]

In my experience..... I don't particularly like the rule pumps, I have been transiting to the Johnson pumps when one of my existing ones go back
But I found that the role float switches are really the problem. No other way to say they suck. Mine have always stuck on the on position and then burn out the pump.

Float switches are usually the problem, that is why I asked why people are switching pumps. No matter what you choose, just curious if I missed something about rule pumps. I know I have thought about raising the float switch so it does not sit in water, but still on back burner.

 

[rslifkin]

For the float switch issues, I've switched to using pumps with built in electronic sensors for the lowest level pumps. Stuff like the Whale supersub and newer Rule mate pumps.

Then I use floats on the higher level pumps. The higher end Rule floats seem to hold up fine in that use as they're rarely cycled and they normally stay dry.

 

[JackConnick]

Ultra Pump switches are by far the best switches out there, but the are a bit spendy. The work and are easy to install. they can't get jammed. The electronic ones can be prone to getting splashed with water, etc and sticking on, however I do use one for my high water pump as it is well away from bilge water.

TEF-GEL - Ultra safety systems - Home page

 

[Delta Riverat]

Rule has even gone to a better solution. Yeah Ultra or the air pressure switch, don't bet your boat with floats.

 

[twistedtree]

I changed everything to Johnson Pumps 4 or 5 years ago.

Me too. After a string of Rule pump failures, I stopped using them

 

[Wtrguy]

A friend of mine changed his out with this type of float and is really happy with them.

50010330 Float Switch | Seattle Marine

Usable with any submersible 12-volt pump. Ball type switch is mercury-free. Includes stainless steel mounting hardware.

www.seamar.com

 

[Nordlund Xpress]

Commercial grade bilge pump form Imtra - very well made, but expensive. Product Search | Marine Products & Accessories | Imtra

 

[ranger58sb]

For the float switch issues, I've switched to using pumps with built in electronic sensors for the lowest level pumps. Stuff like the Whale supersub and newer Rule mate pumps.

Then I use floats on the higher level pumps. The higher end Rule floats seem to hold up fine in that use as they're rarely cycled and they normally stay dry.

I just happened to have been asking Rule about the Rule-Mate version... only because a combined pump/switch might clear up some clutter I was thinking to maybe address. All this while I've been planning to swap to Ultra switches as our in-place Rule float-arm switches fail. (I switched -- get it? -- to Ultra on the previous boat; nifty.)

Xylem says the Rule-Mate switch mechanism is activated by a field effect sensor. (Dunno what that is.) And there's a test button on the outside of the unit.

A member in another forum said he hasn't had any good luck with Rule-Mate pumps. FWIW. I aksed what failed, the pump, the sensor, or the switch... but he said he hadn't bothered to try forensics.

-Chris

 

[Bmarler]

A field effect sensor has no moving parts. Probably no point in explaining the way they function, suffice to say it’s a transistor that turns on when it senses water. They are used in countless everyday devices to detect water level.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Yeah. And reports have said they kill a battery with constant on off on off. I use a rule with 2 float switches in parallel.

 

[rslifkin]

Yeah. And reports have said they kill a battery with constant on off on off. I use a rule with 2 float switches in parallel.

The field effect sensors don't do that although they do draw a tiny bit of power. Rule also makes "automatic" pumps that don't have sensors but are timed to just run every 2 minutes and use motor current / resistance to determine if there's water to pump or not (so it knows whether to keep running). In my opinion, those are pieces of crap that should be avoided.

 

[RickyD]

I have one that just has a water sensor like a stick. If I tap it or water touches it the pump goes. Right now I seems like it is stuck on and I need to replace it. Does anyone know this one? Sorry no pictures until I get back to the boat.

 

[SIBERNUT]

THAT'S the ones i was referring to, TKS!

 

[Bmarler]

I have one that just has a water sensor like a stick. If I tap it or water touches it the pump goes. Right now I seems like it is stuck on and I need to replace it. Does anyone know this one? Sorry no pictures until I get back to the boat.

That could be a capacitive sensor. Might just need cleaned up?

 

[BDofMSP]

The field effect sensors don't do that although they do draw a tiny bit of power. Rule also makes "automatic" pumps that don't have sensors but are timed to just run every 2 minutes and use motor current / resistance to determine if there's water to pump or not (so it knows whether to keep running). In my opinion, those are pieces of crap that should be avoided.

While I don't disagree with the "piece of crap" statement, one came with my boat in the forward bilge, and for the past 6 seasons it has had no noticeable effect on battery usage. I do like that there is no float to clog with bilge debris, but I don't have bilge debris so I wonder why I worry about that. It is annoying to hear the little "whirr" every couple minutes, just for an instant.

 

[BDofMSP]

Commercial grade bilge pump form Imtra - very well made, but expensive. Product Search | Marine Products & Accessories | Imtra

While that is undoubtedly an exceptional pump, it doesn't speak to the switch, which is really the common point of failure. How are you actuating that pump?

 

[Nick F]

Commercial grade bilge pump form Imtra - very well made, but expensive. Product Search | Marine Products & Accessories | Imtra

Before going to a pump like this I would consider an AC 110 volt submersible pump which would easily run off my inverter. If all you want is more reliability for a smaller volume pump, then do as I have done and install multiple pumps, each with its own float switch and fused circuit.

 

[Nordlund Xpress]

Well, not an inexpensive system but pretty bullet proof with Ultra Safety Systems bilge switches. Of course water damage is also not inexpensive. Here's an excellent article by Steve D'Antonio. Bilge Pump Systems; Design and Installation | Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting

 

[Frosty]

I've been wondering something about the sensor switches (the type I mean have two metal discs and when water spans them they activate).

In my case they are Water Witches. But I noticed they have a note on them that says if you are in clean freshwater (or clean rainwater) they might not work. I guess they need a certain amount of salt or dirt (?) to sense. Maybe minerals.

Has anyone used these longer term in only fresh- or rain-water? How have they worked out?

 

[Nordlund Xpress]

Great idea. We carry a Tsurumi LB800 submersible 110V, which pumps 82 GPM at 6' of head pressure as our backup system. Nordlund built our boat with 6 water tight compartments, each with its own bilge pump, 3 of which have a double bilge pump set up. Our previous boat came with a Honda WH15XT high pressure gas pump that put out 98 GPM - kids had fun with it and its fire hose. Great feeling to know you can likely buy some time if something happens.

 

[mncruiser]

I tried switching to Johnson Pumps, and have not had good luck with them. I am getting about a year out of a pump. The problem pump for me is inside the hollowed out swim platform of our Mainship 390, so it may run more than usual as the access hatch is a little bit leaky (on the list to fix). The pump does not have a physical switch, but the integrated electronic one. I think the problem is with the switch, the pump runs and runs, and the only way I'm able to get it to shut off is to pull the fuse. I'm also not impressed with how this pump performs, there is minimal lift for the outlet...maybe 3 feet and 6 feet of run.

I'm thinking of going to a Whale Bilge IC pump style setup, where the pickup is in the bilge, and the pump can be mounted nearby. The cost is a lot more, but spending $80 per year on a new pump each year adds up. And the trouble of changing it out is worth some $$$.

I've installed a Whale Gulper with a manifold to replace the stinky shower box setup, and have had really good luck with that taking care of the drains for a head sink, shower drain and A/C condensate drainage.

I feel the same about on-line reviews. I come to you all for advice as most of us use this stuff.

 

[Seabiscuit4]

I just had a 1.5 year old rule 2000 GPH pump fail on my boat. I installed this pump to replace my previous one (same exact make and model) which was working flawlessly but was getting up in age. Thankfully I check my bilge pump every time I'm on the boat and noticed this when I had an hour to swap it out with my spare onboard at the dock and not while I was out cruising. I tested the line voltage, resistance, and all wiring connections and they are good. No voltage drop, fuses were fine, etc. Old pump worked fine when I installed it.

My question is this - since the rule pumps are awfully expensive and there are quite a few name brands (Seaflo, Oasis, etc) that are less than half the price, I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on them. I don't trust online reviews anymore and would rather hear positive or negative experiences here. I dont like the idea of cheaping out on such a critical piece of gear but installing a second backup pump may make me feel better about it.

I just had a 1.5 year old rule 2000 GPH pump fail on my boat. I installed this pump to replace my previous one (same exact make and model) which was working flawlessly but was getting up in age. Thankfully I check my bilge pump every time I'm on the boat and noticed this when I had an hour to swap it out with my spare onboard at the dock and not while I was out cruising. I tested the line voltage, resistance, and all wiring connections and they are good. No voltage drop, fuses were fine, etc. Old pump worked fine when I installed it.

My question is this - since the rule pumps are awfully expensive and there are quite a few name brands (Seaflo, Oasis, etc) that are less than half the price, I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on them. I don't trust online reviews anymore and would rather hear positive or negative experiences here. I dont like the idea of cheaping out on such a critical piece of gear but installing a second backup pump may make me feel better about it.

Hi I have a 56ft timber motor sailer over the last 6 years I have used them all and find Seaflo as good as any but half the price Rule have not lasted any longer than other brands in my testing.