Big Adventure with Young Family

["Someday" Came]

Howdy all. I'm in process of planning my next great adventure. I'm a father of two young kids with a wife. I've always been into grand adventures and looking for my next one.

Love Adventure
I find I am most happy when I am pushing myself to get out there and explore. Pre family I would travel around a bunch solo travel around the world. Logged tens of thousands of miles on motorcycles exploring Baja, Western United States, BC, Yukon, and Alaska. Spent a bit of time traveling around surfing in Central/South America, Australia, South Pacific. Got into flying a few years ago, got my pilots license and have seen alot by air as well. Was able to build a business over the last couple of decades- so it hasn't been all play by any means- success of that business has afforded me possibility of doing something like this.

I'm looking to plan my next great adventure. Lots of my adventures of the past aren't super conducive to including the family (try getting a family of four on a motorcyle.) I have two kids under five currently, and a wife and am looking to plan our family's great adventure. Could just go live here for a bit or live here for a bit- but need something more than that- plus I love being on the water

Experience on the Water
I grew up on/around boats. Father always had a river boats and some of my fondest memories were with my dad sleeping out on our 24 foot Villian III together. My dad still loves the water and boats. Moved to San Diego 20 years ago and spent most of my time in the water- surfing, diving, etc. Got into sailing in my 20's and spent many nights and weekends crewing on boats- anything from Beer Can races on 30 footers, to crewing on charters of retired America's Cup boats, and even the 110 foot shcooner America which is based there. None of this is to say I am an expert (I'm not) but I am not a complete newb to the water either.

Years ago I had a dream of doing some long distance cruising. Didn't come to fruition- but a part of me always found it interesting.

Tying it all together

Fast forward to today and the cruising thing has resurfaced- in my head it would be an amazing adventure I could take my family on and give my family a lifetime adventure of epic proportions.

I am in the initial stages of planning this adventure. Could kick it off as soon as next winter, or as far as two years out. This winter would be nice because I relocated from SD to somewhere with actual winters, and I am just not a fan of the winter. 2 years from now has appeal because both of my kids should be good swimmers by then. I'm just in the process of coming up with a vision.

I would love to start the adventure by exploring the Western Americas- from Alaska down through Baja/Sea of Cortez. Who knows where it goes from there but you have to start somewhere. Wife is on board and we have the means to do it.

It will be alot to learn but I love the learning curve.

Figuring out a boat

First things is to figure out a boat. (Don't laugh at me here.) I'm in the data gathering phase but have spent a couple of months looking at options- I really like the Nordhavn's (yes, I realize this is kind of cream of the crop/overkill, but yolo, and I don't really want outgrow the boat after a few seasons.) Was looking at N51 but really don't want new plus Nordhavn rep said it would tight for family- so I think the 55 or 60 would be better. Probably the 60 as I like the extra space and the option of a boat that is less than 18 years old. I'm chartering a 55 in the San Juan's this summer for a week to see how I like it. I am well aware they are spendy.

Would start with a full winter season (e.g. cruise warmer climates when it is cold home) but possibly/likely go full time. The plan is to be full time- but should probably get a few months under our belt before committing to that.

Why now?

Interestingly I read that the best time to do an adventure like this with kids is between they are between 3-10- seemed young to me at first but on thinking about it makes sense. Guess its because kids really enjoy being around parents at this age, and aren't gravitating as much to just hanging out with friends. In any case- that means my window is basically starting now and time stands still for no man so away we go.

What I am looking for from group

I'm here for advice on the following:

1. Boat selection- size, make model, features, for a young family of four. Details matter as far as features. Used seems to make most sense hopefully it will already be dialed and I won't have to set it up. Also, don't want to have a heart attack when my kids inevitably screw something up. Reliability of boat and systems paramount- I have spent many hours turning wrenches but I am by no means super mechanical. I want to spend our time adventuring, and while I know things will break, I will pay to limit that possiblity as much as possible. Would rather pay more upfront to mitigate that
2. Itinerary- we are in PNW. I think doing something in warmer waters would be best for kids initially. More fun if they can play in the water. Sea of Cortez for a winter- then maybe migrate to San Juans for summer- or just go elsewhere- but Baja seems like an easy entry as it's semi protected in Sea of Cortez. Plus I have spent alot of time in Baja anyways
3. Tips for long term cruising with a young family

Anyways- that's about it. I want to seize the moment with my family to have some amazing memories together in the finite time period they our kids still think it's cool hanging out with mom and dad. Time goes fast. Want my kids to look back and say "that was awesome." I want my wife and I to be able to look back and not feel like we missed an opportunity to doing something truly amazing together.

Looking forward to tapping into the cognoscenti on here. Thanks for having me.

 

[bshanafelt]

water temp in Desolation sound is warmer than Sea of Cortez during the summer. We have found up to 82 degrees in August

 

[fgarriso]

Welcome Aboard !

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard.

 

[READY]

Welcome. My advice would be to keep options open as you look for a boat. Plenty of good brands out there. Size is always a tough one to address. Sounds like budget (initial cost and ongoing operational) is not much concern to you. Still size can create other issues, Good and bad. Draft is good for heavy weather but could limit cruising options (not so much west coast but more East/tropical). Have you explored/confirmed insurance? Underwriters are getting pretty picky. Also with a family I would suspect you will not anchor out as much and for sure in SoCal slips area harder to get as LOA and beam increase.

Another thought is whatever boat you purchase I would plan to spend 12-18 months preparing. With a family you will want to limit the surprises that might derail or disrupt their early experience.

Final thought is living aboard as a family is a giant change and unlikely one can be sure whether everyone will be happy. So a charter is a great intro but nothing like full time. I don't have that experience but as much as I love boats, adventure and cruising I am 99% sure that would not have worked for our family. Perhaps getting a smaller boat and limiting trips to a month or two to test the waters? Clearly this is a personal decision but a 55+ Nord ready to cruise could be well north of $1mil. With taxes, refit, updates you could add 20%. If it doesn't pan out that is a lot at risk and depending upon timing could be a significant loss. I think you could be fine in something in sub 50ft and without the brand markup of N. Maybe none of this is important to you and if so that's great. Not trying to be negative but realistic. Having raised 3 kids and now grandkids I see why few families beyond elementary grades keep cruising. Go out and enjoy whatever you decide to do and keep posting!

 

[mvweebles]

Boats are a great way to raise kids because there is a very visible cause and effect: if the kids don't pitch-in and do their part, the rest of the family picks up the slack. No relief valve.

First, advice about the boat. #1 is......it's not about the boat. Doesn't really make that much difference what boat you choose. It does need adequate storage space so size matters. I met a family in Panama with three boys ages 6-12 cruising a Hatteras 58 who had started in PNW. I watched the wife make a provisioning run: cases of juice, flats of eggs, all sorts of food products. I'm sure stowing it was a day long job. In the heat. The boys were having a blast. Husband loved chit chatting on the dock. The wife? Honestly she didn't look very happy. Note to self: make it symmetric.

One thing about the boat style: ability to get on/off the boat is important . Getting dinghy on/off boat is important. Nordhavn and pilothouse style boats have a lower aft deck that's easy to board from dock or dinghy (the Hatt 58 LRC mentioned above does not though the Hatt 48 LRC is a "sedan" style aft deck).

Dinghy. You'll want a pretty large dinghy. Unfortunately, the vast majority of pilothouse style boats like Nordhavn stow the dinghy on the upper deck vs on dual arms off the transom. A large dinghy can weigh up to a half ton - a single point lift crane can be pretty unwieldy. If a crane is the only practical option, It needs a very solid crane lift with power in/out and power rotation. Don't underestimate crane and dinghy - starting from scratch for a larger dinghy and robust crane on a new boat is well north of $40k.

When I read your adventure bio, I immediately thought of Bumfuzzle - a blogger family who are serial adventurers. Boats (multiple), travel trailers, every conveyance under the sun. And they've raised a couple children along the way. 5-years ago they were on a Grand Banks 42 bopping around the Caribbean. Looks like they're back to a sailboat and currently in Thailand. A LOT of content over the years so you can see how they've dealt with kids at different ages Bumfuzzle Blog Posts

The other example that comes to mind is a family of 4-1/2 on a Nordhavn 55 "Mermaid Monster." Personally I find their "look at me" style videos difficult to watch but given your situation, you will probably find good information, especially about the kids part. They've had their YouTube channel for several years so good trend information. I believe they just sold their boat and are rumored to be considering a larger one.

ABOARD MERMAID MONSTER

Together with Brooke, Braden, 4 kids, and a lot of animals, we are a traveling family that lives both at sea and on a farm in Tennessee. Mermaid Monster is a 55ft Nordhavn blue water passage making yacht. Come follow along and enjoy our journalistic videos as we roam the world! Follow along over...

youtube.com

Good luck. You've found a good forum here - some very knowledgeable and helpful people here. I've learned a lot over the years.

Peter

 

[cafesport]

In 2017 at the behest of a trawler forum member I contacted another TF memeber by the name of jeff whose handle was bigpoppop, he did exactly what you are contemplating. If you search the archives you'll find loads of info which you might find helpful. You might even send him a pm.

 

[Judy at JWY]

Welcome to TF and as noted, lots of good info here. I fully support raising a family while cruising. From my own experiences, we spent 10 years 2 weeks per month, all school vacations, and all summer with our 3 children onboard cruising from Alaska to Maine and every island in-between. They learned far more about geography, weather, science, math et al than they missed in school. My children each had their assigned duties according to their age and skills (chartplotting, polishing stainless, dinghy care, etc.) My children learned independence, perseverance, patience, self-reliance and to be problem solvers. Now in their forties, their years of boating has carried them successfully through life. One is a construction engineer for a major hospital system, one graduated California Maritime Academy and is working as ships captain (tugs, ferry, crew...) for ngo at Gitmo, and my daughter spent 3 years in the Peace Corps in Nicaragua in a remote village without electricity or running water where they had never seen a caucasian. They each credit their boating experiences with guiding them into happy careers.

I have 2 strong recommendations: (1) Make sure your boat is stable as seasickness is a major deterrent and (2) Get whatever help you can for your wife. Whether it's day help for housecleaning or sending laundry out when docked. I'm sure you have help at home so provide whatever you can while onboard.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard.
FUN!!!

 

[Bacchus]

Mark...
A BIG DREAM for sure but you sound like the type person that can / will make things happen if the trial turns out to be enjoyable.
I'd recommend chartering but you are ahead of me already. The additional thought would be to consider including a training Capt for part / all of the trial cruise. If the concept is a go a big hurdle will be getting insurance for a boat that size w/o extensive experience on progressively larger vessels.
Above will likely be a requirement so if you are relatively confident the concept will be a go doing the training sooner vs later might help expedite your plan... and I'll bet you & the crew will learn a lot. Maybe challenge the crew that in order for the plan to fly everyone will need to learn and demonstrate some nautical skills and the ability / interest in learning.

 

[Gdavid]

Welcome to the site and good luck on your planned adventure. There is plenty of well-rounded advice on here to soak up.

I realize this is a trawler site and we focus on power boats, but in the small world of long distance and extended time cruising, powerboats are very much in the minority for a reason, is there a reason you aren't considering a sailboat?

 

[READY]

A boat you may want to consider
Thread '2003 Selene 47' $679K, Seattle WA' 2003 Selene 47' $679K, Seattle WA

 

[ranger58sb]

First things is to figure out a boat. (Don't laugh at me here.) I'm in the data gathering phase but have spent a couple of months looking at options- I really like the Nordhavn's (yes, I realize this is kind of cream of the crop/overkill, but yolo, and I don't really want outgrow the boat after a few seasons.) Was looking at N51 but really don't want new plus Nordhavn rep said it would tight for family- so I think the 55 or 60 would be better. Probably the 60 as I like the extra space and the option of a boat that is less than 18 years old. I'm chartering a 55 in the San Juan's this summer for a week to see how I like it. I am well aware they are spendy.

A boat you may want to consider
Thread '2003 Selene 47' $679K, Seattle WA' 2003 Selene 47' $679K, Seattle WA

I'd reckon most Nordhavn models with sufficient volume and decent layout could be viable. Maybe with stabilizers (added, if necessary) to deal with big water.

But... a 51 being tight for a family? Maybe. Or maybe that just means the 51 model, not that you need longer, could be 40 or 46 or whatever length and layout could be very well suited.

Length is not always the most important factor. Layout usually more important. Especially 'cause length doesn't take into account the various levels often included.

Check out that Selene, and see what it will (or will not) do for your family situation. And compare lots o' boats, not just Nordhavns and Selenes. KK or Fleming maybe, etc.

-Chris

 

[Sababa]

Sounds like you are trying to check a lot of the same boxes we were in this thread:

Thread 'Unicorn Boat?'
Unicorn Boat?

We wound up getting a Maritimo 52, which was not a brand or style that was on our radar, but which we absolutely love. Whether that’s your cup of tea or not, there are a lot of good suggestions for long-range three sleeping cabin boats in the 50-60 foot range in there.

You are probably aware of this, but you are going to have trouble insuring a boat that size out of the gate. You will need to spend a decent amount of time with a hired captain and then under your own command in inside waters before anybody is going to cover you for a run down to the Sea of Cortez.

If you want to run up the skill curve as quickly as possible both for the sake of insurance and the safety of your family, I highly recommend spending some time training and certifying with Captain Phyllis Woolwine at Shearwater University in Anacortes.

 

["Someday" Came]

Mark...
A BIG DREAM for sure but you sound like the type person that can / will make things happen if the trial turns out to be enjoyable.
I'd recommend chartering but you are ahead of me already. The additional thought would be to consider including a training Capt for part / all of the trial cruise. If the concept is a go a big hurdle will be getting insurance for a boat that size w/o extensive experience on progressively larger vessels.
Above will likely be a requirement so if you are relatively confident the concept will be a go doing the training sooner vs later might help expedite your plan... and I'll bet you & the crew will learn a lot. Maybe challenge the crew that in order for the plan to fly everyone will need to learn and demonstrate some nautical skills and the ability / interest in learning.

I hired a captain for the duration of the 7 day charter. They will train me. I was kind of suprised they said I only needed 3 days of training for a 55- but I realized I would enjoy it more with an expert on board. Also of note- I am taking my dad along on this trip and leaving the family at home. It's more of a "get out on a boat I am interested in, see how I like it, see San Juan area (haven't been there) and take my dad on a nice trip to spend some time together". If it makes sense I will probably do another charter this summer and take family- but I figure a week on a guided tour with someone who is an expert without worrying about kids would be a good first step.

 

[Sababa]

I hired a captain for the duration of the 7 day charter. They will train me. I was kind of suprised they said I only needed 3 days of training for a 55- but I realized I would enjoy it more with an expert on board. Also of note- I am taking my dad along on this trip and leaving the family at home. It's more of a "get out on a boat I am interested in, see how I like it, see San Juan area (haven't been there) and take my dad on a nice trip to spend some time together". If it makes sense I will probably do another charter this summer and take family- but I figure a week on a guided tour with someone who is an expert without worrying about kids would be a good first step.

If your wife is going to be your first mate you should take her along on your training cruises. Her skills and your marriage will benefit from having a third-party professional train her up.

Your three days with the captain on the charter boat will allow you to operate their boat in a limited geographical area—I expect just the San Juan Islands where their chase boat can reach you if something goes wrong. It is unlikely to make you insurable for your own boat of that size.

When you do get over that hump, you will find that your first policy will limit you to the Salish Sea—basically Puget Sound to Desolation Sound and the Discovery Islands at the North end of the Strait of Georgia. To go further or offshore, you will need limited duration rider on a per trip basis. You will need quite a bit more helm time and/or training before one will be forthcoming.

 

[Retriever]

I will pay to limit that possiblity as much as possible. Would rather pay more upfront to mitigate that

Be careful with this if you are truly interested in long-distance cruising. It can work okay when the boat has lots of downtime in ports with good service provides who you've already worked with and trust. Trying to find experts while traveling can be VERY difficult or impossible. If you're reliant on outside expertise, cruising may end up being getting to a port where experts can fly in, then waiting for them to arrive, then cursing when they forgot the critical part needed. New boats have just as many problems as used boats, just different problems.

Lots of people will take your money but will not have the skills they purport to have. Sometimes they make things worse rather than better.

Can you get your kids and wife on the water ASAP to see if they like it? Keep in mind, though, that long-distance cruising doesn't really resemble vacation cruising. It is a lot of work--grocery shopping, doctor visits, fixing the boat, dealing with government bureaucracy, getting mail--all these things are way harder when cruising to new places than at home or even cruising the same area year after year.

Lastly, I find cruising quite social, but my wife finds it isolating. You meet lots of people, then go your separate ways. It's not that there aren't people around, but they're not my wife's old/close/trusted friends from home, and they're constantly changing.

Insurance is a huge PITA. There's a pretty strong argument to be made for buying a boat you can afford to self-insure hull & machinery if you really want to embark on more adventurous cruising.

 

[PierreR]

Maybe I did not read enough but I did not see Someday Soon mention extensive off shore travel to exotic far away place that would require something like a Nordhavn. Cruising from the PNW to the Sea of Cortez is coastal cruising and far different from crossing long distance over open ocean.
If that is the case, then I would look for something more livable. We have members on here that do that trip in boats most TF folks would consider marginal. Livability tends to increase as the boat becomes more open and airy. That means a decrease in ultimate seaworthiness. Open and airy with wider open spaces inside the boat is more enjoyable at anchor and docks. Especially in the tropics or dry areas. More livable space also becomes greater within the same length as seaworthiness decreases. The number of boat choices also goes way up when considering limiting cruising to coastal cruising.
It's okay to dream big but when push comes to shove, the question of how you will actually use the boat. Choosing the right kind of boat can make a big difference in everyday life comforts and actual daily needs.
The most livable boat is a big pontoon houseboat, the worst is a submarine. Compromise is the name of the game in boats.
Bottom line is do you see yourself slugging along the fiords of Patagonia or anchored in a quiet cove enjoying the sun and a drink while the kids play on the beach with the dingy. The optimal boat would be different for each case. I use to think that buying for the worst possible scenario was the way to go. Now I think buying for what I will use the boat for most of the time is wiser and having the common sense to avoid the worst possible scenario is a higher possibility with far greater overall satisfaction.

 

[mvweebles]

Be careful with this if you are truly interested in long-distance cruising. It can work okay when the boat has lots of downtime in ports with good service provides who you've already worked with and trust. Trying to find experts while traveling can be VERY difficult or impossible. If you're reliant on outside expertise, cruising may end up being getting to a port where experts can fly in, then waiting for them to arrive, then cursing when they forgot the critical part needed. New boats have just as many problems as used boats, just different problems.

Lots of people will take your money but will not have the skills they purport to have. Sometimes they make things worse rather than better.

Can you get your kids and wife on the water ASAP to see if they like it? Keep in mind, though, that long-distance cruising doesn't really resemble vacation cruising. It is a lot of work--grocery shopping, doctor visits, fixing the boat, dealing with government bureaucracy, getting mail--all these things are way harder when cruising to new places than at home or even cruising the same area year after year.

Lastly, I find cruising quite social, but my wife finds it isolating. You meet lots of people, then go your separate ways. It's not that there aren't people around, but they're not my wife's old/close/trusted friends from home, and they're constantly changing.

Insurance is a huge PITA. There's a pretty strong argument to be made for buying a boat you can afford to self-insure hull & machinery if you really want to embark on more adventurous cruising.

This is a good post from @Retriever (as usual). A decent instructor can teach a reasonably talented person a lot in a few days - a great start for day trips and weekend trips. But the long distance cruising thing is a bit more complex - you simply don't know what you don't know.

I just finished a 7-day run from Panama to Florida with two other couples, one of whom is a dreamer with near zero relevant experience. It was a good experience for them but I don't think they really absorbed the full burden of responsibility and requisite knowledge. They walked into a pre-prepared boat with a knowledgeable owner experienced in weather, machinery, provisioning, passage planning, electronics, charting, logistics, and so many other things. It looks pretty easy from the outside: stand a watch, check engine, talk to weather router, pull a casserole from the freezer. Rinse/repeat 7x.

There are a ton of nuances. For example, about 2-days out we were in a crossing situation with a ship passing from our port side. The newbies reaction was to bear off to starboard under the "tonnage rule - might makes right" or something like that. To which I gently informed there is no tonnage rule and we are the stand-on vessel. If we take evasive actions we risk confusing the ship as it's his obligation to give way - he expects us to stay the course and speed. If we did make arrangements and give way, we should do so to port, not starboard because it's always preferable to pass astern to lessen possibility of collision. In the end, I contacted the ship and confirmed passing arrangements (no action necessary by either vessel).

My point being that while I encourage the OP to take the leap, it's with caution that training can get you started with some important basics (and three days is plenty as a start), but there is still a lot to know before you head out to a distant destination. It's very achievable, but it's a process. I'm still amazed at how much I learn.

Peter

 

["Someday" Came]

Welcome to the site and good luck on your planned adventure. There is plenty of well-rounded advice on here to soak up.

I realize this is a trawler site and we focus on power boats, but in the small world of long distance and extended time cruising, powerboats are very much in the minority for a reason, is there a reason you aren't considering a sailboat?

Why no sailboat? Think a powerboat will have more ameneties- also tending sails and watching kids seems like additional workload i don’t want to manage.

If I do it, I may just do few months in pnw and sea of cortez and see how it goes. I am not going to commit to year round

 

[KillinTime2022]

Sounds like you are trying to check a lot of the same boxes we were in this thread:

Thread 'Unicorn Boat?'
Unicorn Boat?

We wound up getting a Maritimo 52, which was not a brand or style that was on our radar, but which we absolutely love. Whether that’s your cup of tea or not, there are a lot of good suggestions for long-range three sleeping cabin boats in the 50-60 foot range in there.

You are probably aware of this, but you are going to have trouble insuring a boat that size out of the gate. You will need to spend a decent amount of time with a hired captain and then under your own command in inside waters before anybody is going to cover you for a run down to the Sea of Cortez.

If you want to run up the skill curve as quickly as possible both for the sake of insurance and the safety of your family, I highly recommend spending some time training and certifying with Captain Phyllis Woolwine at Shearwater University in Anacortes.

Do you have the Captains information in Anacortes?

 

[KillinTime2022]

Go on YouTube and follow Aboard Mermaid Monster. A family of 3 and now 4 all raised on a Nordhavn 55. Watch all their older videos as they are off the boat for a brief time while having their 4th baby and buying some property. They have gone everywhere and done it all with small children. They are now looking for a larger boat with more room for the bigger family. They provide the true side of boating with kids, hurricanes, food prep, engine issues, all of it.

 

[ktdtx]

I met the owner of a Nordhavn 55, "Lone Time Dead", in Alaska a couple times. He was cruising with 3 teenagers. IIRC..the plan was buy the boat in the PNW, do Alaska then down the West Coast, get around to the East Coast and sell the boat. Two years was allotted for the trip. They all seemed to be enjoying them selves immensely. Of course that was the early part of the two years on the boat together. But that boat seemed to be working for them

 

[Sababa]

Do you have the Captains information in Anacortes?

Home

Maritime education in the heart of the Salish Sea

shearwateruniversity.com

 

[Mako]

Boats are a great way to raise kids because there is a very visible cause and effect: if the kids don't pitch-in and do their part, the rest of the family picks up the slack. No relief valve.

First, advice about the boat. #1 is......it's not about the boat. Doesn't really make that much difference what boat you choose.

Boating is a wonderful family activity, and boating is certainly a bug that most of us on TF have.

I raised my kids in the Middle East and had a nice panga built for me which we used in the Persian Gulf. Weekends taking the kids and their friends amongst the mangroves, chasing beautiful flamingos in the flats, diving the "potato field" of limestone outcroppings, spearfishing for hammour (grouper), Friday morning coffee with my American friends on the sandbar, celebrating our anniversary in the dark of night out on the offshore island with the city lights of Doha illuminating the world.

@"Someday" Came if you want adventure in this next phase of life with your young kids, get a strong, protective boat, but make it a stabilized boat.