Beautiful Engine Room on Cruising Boat (PICTURES)

[mvweebles]

Seeing how engine room pictures are a passion to some TF'ers, I thought I'd post some of this 20-year old Nordhavn 55. It has about 3300 hours on her, over 500 (and almost 4000 nms) since she was last hauled in San Diego 2-years ago. I love the installations on Nordhavns but like all boats, you have to stay after it to keep it looking good - which is 100% on the owner.

Enjoy -

Looking aftward as you enter the ER.

Fuel return management system. Vessel has four fuel tanks plus a calibrated day tank that doubles as the supply manifold (not shown)

Peeking over the wing engine. Note how the owner has organized in stainless trays - I believe he purchased from Summit Racing.

Facing forward - wing engine on the right (stbd) and back of Deere in front. Note dry-stack.

Looking aftward towards lazarette (doorway from ER to Laz). Note the dual cylinders and heavy rudder stock.

Rudder support beam in foreground - steering control valves in background. Everything is well marked from the factory.

Heavy DC connections and switches (all behind a plexiglass cover). This looks super clean and easy. I can tell you from experience that getting this stuff laid out and labeled like this is an incredibly slow (and expensive) process. For those who think $1m boats are over-priced, might want to try doing stuff like this. It ain't easy. Also note how well everything is strapped down - credit a knowledgeable owner with years of experience.

 

[ofer]

not sure i approve his choice of sandals otherwise perfect

 

[O C Diver]

I can't tell you how much I hate them routing hoses and cables behind walls! It all looks really nice until there's a problem and you can't trace hoses and cables.

A good friend of mine had a 2 or 3 year old Grand Banks with that nonsense. He had a battery charger that wasn't charging. First you have to figure out which of 5 different battery banks wasn't charging. Then figure out which battery charger wasn't working. And finally figure out the problem. Tracing cables that go behind walls and under floors was a total PIA!

Much rather have things bundled where you can identify the battery bank and easily follow the positive cable to the battery charger.

Ted

 

[mvweebles]

I can't tell you how much I hate them routing hoses and cables behind walls! It all looks really nice until there's a problem and you can't trace hoses and cables.

A good friend of mine had a 2 or 3 year old Grand Banks with that nonsense. He had a battery charger that wasn't charging. First you have to figure out which of 5 different battery banks wasn't charging. Then figure out which battery charger wasn't working. And finally figure out the problem. Tracing cables that go behind walls and under floors was a total PIA!

Much rather have things bundled where you can identify the battery bank and easily follow the positive cable to the battery charger.

Ted

I don't disagree with you . I will say Nordhavn does a reasonably good job of making panels accessible. But the real issue is complexity - there is a ton of systems to provide home - like accomodations. Even my tiny Willard 36 has too much crap - if I were to do it again, I'd tone down some of the bling.

Peter

Peter

 

[Mac2]

Thanks for the pictures! They gave me some great ideas. The trays and crate with matching and marked storage bins is beautiful!

 

[Ithaka7]

I fully agree that modern cruising boats have become very complex. I wish everything was simple, backed up and quickly replaceable. For example, the complexity of having two fresh water pumps with many valves to make them redundant. It is so much simpler to just have a spare pump next to it and you just re-route the two hoses and electrical connections. A spare pump is what, $150, while just the valves and the instructions how to do it costs more than that.

Similarly for the wiring (just look at how many switches there are, each costing $150, with the fuses, the cables). Then think about operating them when you are under stress, without power or the boat maybe sinking or closer to the rocks. What is the point of having centralized switching? No point. Two battery banks, one house, one starting, bridgeable. If you have electric bow thrusters, put the batteries next to them and the switches next to them. I think Nordhavn is definitely going over the top, appealing to super risk averse buyers without actually adding any meaningful redundancy. Another example, if you want to have a get home engine, forget about another diesel (how many do you need?), one main, one generator and an electric motor driven by the generator would be enough. Cheaper, simpler, easier to maintain.

 

[KnotYet]

I fully agree that modern cruising boats have become very complex. I wish everything was simple, backed up and quickly replaceable. For example, the complexity of having two fresh water pumps with many valves to make them redundant. It is so much simpler to just have a spare pump next to it and you just re-route the two hoses and electrical connections. A spare pump is what, $150, while just the valves and the instructions how to do it costs more than that.

Similarly for the wiring (just look at how many switches there are, each costing $150, with the fuses, the cables). Then think about operating them when you are under stress, without power or the boat maybe sinking or closer to the rocks. What is the point of having centralized switching? No point. Two battery banks, one house, one starting, bridgeable. If you have electric bow thrusters, put the batteries next to them and the switches next to them. I think Nordhavn is definitely going over the top, appealing to super risk averse buyers without actually adding any meaningful redundancy. Another example, if you want to have a get home engine, forget about another diesel (how many do you need?), one main, one generator and an electric motor driven by the generator would be enough. Cheaper, simpler, easier to maintain.

While I understand your concern about adding another diesel engine to the mix,
this 62T boat's wing engine is 70 HP! An electric alternative would no doubt cost a
lot more after adding the required controls and likely high voltage generating stuff.

 

[Diep]

Beautiful ER and excellent diligence in keeping it that way.

One of the positive tradeoffs to the molded floor pans is that there is good walking and working surfaces and the concealed items are protected from incidental damage. In this boat you can move through the ER or work on an item in a rough seaway without worrying about snagging a hose or wire loom. There are openable hatches everywhere you look so most things should be traceable.

In my boat "NO STEP" with sharpie protects all the items you need to crawl over to get places. The upside is you can see if you damage anything in the process!

 

[guy with a boat]

I can't tell you how much I hate them routing hoses and cables behind walls! It all looks really nice until there's a problem and you can't trace hoses and cables.

A good friend of mine had a 2 or 3 year old Grand Banks with that nonsense. He had a battery charger that wasn't charging. First you have to figure out which of 5 different battery banks wasn't charging. Then figure out which battery charger wasn't working. And finally figure out the problem. Tracing cables that go behind walls and under floors was a total PIA!

Much rather have things bundled where you can identify the battery bank and easily follow the positive cable to the battery charger.

Ted

99% of the problems you describe are eliminated by having cables and hoses labeled at each end. Seems like that should be standard regardless of the routing of the hoses/cables.

 

[O C Diver]

99% of the problems you describe are eliminated by having cables and hoses labeled at each end. Seems like that should be standard regardless of the routing of the hoses/cables.

I guess if you buy new boats and sell them in less than ten years, that's true. For the rest of us, replacing rubber fuel and hydraulic lines that are leaking or will be (past their life expectancy), is an absolute nightmare.

Ted

 

[guy with a boat]

I guess if you buy new boats and sell them in less than ten years, that's true. For the rest of us, replacing rubber fuel and hydraulic lines that are leaking or will be (past their life expectancy), is an absolute nightmare.

Ted

I thought we were talking about identifying and tracing cables and hoses that were run behind panels.
You make a fair point about difficulty of changing these things. The major pains I have seen is when there are inaccessible cable ties etc that makes it unecessarily tough. Routing behind panels and under floors doesn’t create the problem if done correctly, IMO. With some space and accessibility, they can still be swapped out without a big fight.
A recent GB is apparently an example of a nice boat that nonetheless presents some challenges due to routing, so I don’t argue that the problem exists.

 

[rslifkin]

I don't mind cables or hoses being run behind panels. However, some provision for access or replacement is important. Having stuff tied down in a hidden area that can't be accessed without major disassembly is a problem. But running something through conduit where it can be pulled out and a new one pulled in is different. Or having an access panel that can be removed.

I built a few conduits into my boat through the aft bilge to run fuel lines through, as the original routing required tearing a bunk apart, removing the fuel tanks and then tearing up a floor for access. Now replacement can be done in a couple of hours instead of multiple days (and pumping all of the fuel out of the boat).

 

[twistedtree]

On that boat you can access nearly all of the fuel hose and DC cable runs via various hatches.

 

[O C Diver]

I thought we were talking about identifying and tracing cables and hoses that were run behind panels.
You make a fair point about difficulty of changing these things. The major pains I have seen is when there are inaccessible cable ties etc that makes it unecessarily tough. Routing behind panels and under floors doesn’t create the problem if done correctly, IMO. With some space and accessibility, they can still be swapped out without a big fight.
A recent GB is apparently an example of a nice boat that nonetheless presents some challenges due to routing, so I don’t argue that the problem exists.

Well then let's call it preference.

I haven't come across a boat yet that hasn't had stuff changed either by repair or upgrade. While it looks pretty, I suppose most Nordhavn owners aren't doing much more than minor maintenance. They're probably not the ones adding new systems that didn't exist when the boat was built or doing a refit.

Ted

 

[slowgoesit]

Great setup, and I'm jealous of how everything is nicely laid out and labeled! Kudo's to the owners for continuing to maintain it to high standards of repair and cleanliness!

But . . . . I'll take a stand up engine room, with a work bench, vice, etc, any day! Simple and convenient to do hourly ER checks underway, better access for repairs and maintenance, and, . . . . well, I don't bend and crawl as easy as I used to!
Making access easy, at least for me, means that I get in there more often than I probably would if I had to pull up hatches, and crawl on my hands and knees . . .

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I have few complaints about my own engine room, though mine also has plenty of hoses and lines that disappear below deck.

 

[hollywood8118]

Nordhavn's definitely have well laid out and pretty E.R.'s. My favorite is still the N57 with great headroom at the engine ( I'm 6'2 and appreciate space) then has a open central "walkway" space with the generators on one side and the get home and pumps on the other. At the stern end is a water tight bulkhead with a door to the lazarette . When you open the Laz and the bulkhead door in combination with the ER door across from the galley it seems to create a wind tunnel effect that allowed for a breeze through the space when working in the space. The only space I liked better was the ER in the Northern Marine 80 which is cavernous and functioned similarly but was massive.
Hollywood

 

[mvweebles]

The vacuum gauge on the Racors came up a bit to 10 (inches? I forget the measurement units). So we changed the filter element underway this morning (rather I stood by and snapped a couple pics). The guy on the foreground is about 5'9" for scale and can work easily. One of the coolest design features Nordhavn came up with years ago was their "maintenance strakes " which are elingated bulbous indentations in the hull on either side of the engine. Allows standing headroom (or close).

 

[cafesport]

Looks like a 10 micron by the color. That's normally what is used to transfer fuel to the day tank. Also looks like quite a bit of schmutz is coming from somewhere. Might want to test it with some acetone and start running from the day tank via hourly transfers.

 

[twistedtree]

Did you notice what the vacuum reduced to after switching filters?

 

[mvweebles]

Looks like a 10 micron by the color. That's normally what is used to transfer fuel to the day tank. Also looks like quite a bit of schmutz is coming from somewhere. Might want to test it with some acetone and start running from the day tank via hourly transfers.

Talk to me about the acetone test. What does that show?

 

[cafesport]

Acetone will dissolve asphaltene but it won't do anything to algae. You need to figure out what this contaminant is. Also seems like the drag needle went past mid level suggesting lots more of whatever the filter caught in whichever tank you are drawing from. How many hours/gallons have been run through this filter?

Once you know what/where the contaminant is you can better deal with it. The great thing about this nordy's fuel system is that you can pre filter the fuel into the day tank and forget about any more fuel problems for a long time.

 

[mvweebles]

Acetone will dissolve asphaltene but it won't do anything to algae. You need to figure out what this contaminant is. Also seems like the drag needle went past mid level suggesting lots more of whatever the filter caught in whichever tank you are drawing from. How many hours/gallons have been run through this filter?

Once you know what/where the contaminant is you can better deal with it. The great thing about this nordy's fuel system is that you can pre filter the fuel into the day tank and forget about any more fuel problems for a long time.

Thanks for this info. Filter has 220 engine hours and 1250 gals through it. I think the two tanks has been empty for a while so might be some crud. Sounds like I need to do some study on prefiltering the day tank. Right now it's just a pass through. We have plenty of filters aboard so not a huge concern.

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

On my Nordhavn 60, which is the same as the 55 except more length in the caboose, I dedicated to two forward fuel tanks to use as a big day tank. You might discuss this approach with the owner.

You would want to be sure the tanks are clean to begin with before using them as a day tank. They are 150 gal each, and I just left them both valved open to the "supply" tank all the time, so really all three made up the day tank. And I left the two main supply tanks (1000 gal each) always valved off so they were isolated storage tanks. The only way fuel ever got into the forward tanks was via filtered transfer.

 

[cafesport]

So i just finished changing out our primary fuel filters and I thought i would post a filter photo here for reference.

So what you are looking at is a 10 micron filter that has passed around 4700 gallons of fuel through it for our day tank. This tank is used for two engines and two generators.


The 2 filters in the bags are 30 micron. The darker filter ran 425 hours of fuel roughly 1300 gallons the other around 125 hours or less than 400 gallons. Additionally no vacuum pressure difference indicated.

 

[twistedtree]

So i just finished changing out our primary fuel filters and I thought i would post a filter photo here for reference.

So what you are looking at is a 10 micron filter that has passed around 4700 gallons of fuel through it for our day tank. This tank is used for two engines and two generators.


The 2 filters in the bags are 30 micron. The darker filter ran 425 hours of fuel roughly 1300 gallons the other around 125 hours or less than 400 gallons. Additionally no vacuum pressure difference indicated.

I’m not sure what your point is? The filters with more fuel through them are darker with debris, which is to be expected. With the really dark filter, you can’t really say whether it collected more because it’s 10 micron rather than 30, vs it has had 3x the fuel run through it. So inconclusive WRT micron rating.

 

[rgano]

Love engine room porn photos. Thanks.

 

[cafesport]

Peter, It’s about preventing problems and not creating them.

Actually now that I think about it, over the last year I transferred 500 gallons to the forward tanks on two occasions when taking on new fuel. This week I moved 500 gallons of old fuel (8 months) forward in prep for refueling. That might explain the unusual amount of asphaltene on this filter.

According to the info weebles provided in post 23, a similar 10 micron filter became seriously fouled after only 1250 gallons when gravity fed from the main tanks. I commented that it appeared to be a pretty real issue for the filters to begin pulling high vacuum. Gravity feed valves are at the lowest point in the tank. Transfer pump draw is higher up.

Supply tanks can be drained into the day tank or into the supply manifold. Each has it’s own best uses.

I was helping an owner bring a 60 back from the Bahamas and he had his valves set to gravity feed to the day tank. Long story short, the day tank sump was full of water, the water alarm was faulty and the engine began to hiccup.

By pre filtering all fuel to the day tank (really more of a “watch tank”) the way the system was designed you prevent water and vacuum issues for your engine. Besides what else have you got to do on multi day trips?

 

[twistedtree]

Thanks, I should have read back a few posts to regain context. We are on the same page regarding fuel management and the risks associated with the various approaches.