Battery question

[gonesailing13]

Getting ready to replace the batteries on our boat. Right now we have Trojan 105’s as our house bank. Looking online and see that Duracell makes a battery with close to the same specs as Trojan with a lower price. Anyone have any experience with Duracell ?

 

[tiltrider1]

Have you searched “converting to LiFePo4” on Trawler Forum? You want to research this on this forum before making a battery decision.

 

[Don L]

I have used the Duracell (made by East Penn) and the Trojan T105 GC2 batteries. I my opinion there wasn't any difference and each lasted the same amount of time.

With that said I moved away for both those to carbon foam, which turned out to be bullshit, ad then to LFP.

 

[kchace]

My house bank is made up of the Duracell GC batteries. These are just a rebrand of Deka batteries which are all made by East Penn. IMO they are great batteries.

Ken

 

[mvweebles]

Costco sells a 6V Golf Cart battery made by Interstate. I cannot comment on quality but I felt they didn't last as long as expected but I have to admit I wasn't the best at maintaining them as I wasn't at the boat often back then.

As others have said, might want to consider LFP.

Peter

 

[luna]

Despite what most people think, Interstate does not actually make batteries. They are very successful in marketing and selling batteries, but make none.

I agree, if you are going to replace your lead based batteries today, you would be well served to at least look at LFP.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Yes, the perfect time to go with LiFePO4 is when your house LA are dead.

 

[mvweebles]

BTW - a quick Google gas Duracell 6V at around $150, or $0.115/watt ($0.23 per usable watt). A 300ah WattCycle can be had for $400 --- $0.11/watt ($0.11 per usable watt). Numbers may change based on availability and sales, but suffice to say there is parity in the market.

A simple conversion to LFP is to add a DC-DC charger. Your alternator likely already goes to your start battery with some sort of isolation switch between the start and house banks. Replace that charge isolation with a DC-DC charger and your done (example of $325 one here ).

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

Getting ready to replace the batteries on our boat. Right now we have Trojan 105’s as our house bank. Looking online and see that Duracell makes a battery with close to the same specs as Trojan with a lower price. Anyone have any experience with Duracell ?

As others have said, and especially if your house batteries are isolated from starting/thruster functions... LFP could well be your best way forward.

OTOH, if your house and starting/thruster and house functions are combined... or if you want to stay with lead-acid but maintenance or off-gassing are issues... Lifeline makes AGM versions of 6V deep cycle batteries. Probably more expensive than either Trojan or East Penn/Duracell wet batteries, but the trade-offs might be worth it to you.

Otherwise, reading suggests Trojan has a slightly better rep than East Penn/Deka, but I think only slightly...

-Chris

 

[Bacchus]

Costco sells a 6V Golf Cart battery made by Interstate. I cannot comment on quality but I felt they didn't last as long as expected but I have to admit I wasn't the best at maintaining them as I wasn't at the boat often back then.

As others have said, might want to consider LFP.

Peter

Agree...
I have used East Penn FLA and AGM battys in boats snd motorhomes and been very satisfied. I'm looking to replace my 2 house 8D AGMs after 11 seasons (still usable but loosing capacity and ability to hold V over extended time). EP makes many batty brands that are well regarded.
Sams Club sells EP Duracell at attractive prices.

 

[CharlieO.]

BTW - a quick Google gas Duracell 6V at around $150, or $0.115/watt ($0.23 per usable watt). A 300ah WattCycle can be had for $400 --- $0.11/watt ($0.11 per usable watt). Numbers may change based on availability and sales, but suffice to say there is parity in the market.

A simple conversion to LFP is to add a DC-DC charger. Your alternator likely already goes to your start battery with some sort of isolation switch between the start and house banks. Replace that charge isolation with a DC-DC charger and your done (example of $325 one here ).

Peter

I did pretty much what you describe but went with the 18a Victron DC-DC charger because my alternator on my Lehman is only 51a, so I had to be sure not to run the alternator at or near max output for prolonged periods.

 

[gknoepfler]

Getting ready to replace the batteries on our boat. Right now we have Trojan 105’s as our house bank. Looking online and see that Duracell makes a battery with close to the same specs as Trojan with a lower price. Anyone have any experience with Duracell ?

I just replaced T105’s with US Battery 6V’s. About half the price, same specs and American made.

 

[Boatcrazy]

Very enlightening discussion. We've used 6 T-105s, connected as 3 "12v batteries" since 2003...we're on our 4th set now. Always thought they were the "gold standard", but it's great to hear about some other, valid competitors. Have looked at LiFePO4, but between all the fusing, BMS, alternator issues, and special charging requirements...and the runaway/fire issue... we've stayed away for now. KISS!

 

[mvweebles]

Very enlightening discussion. We've used 6 T-105s, connected as 3 "12v batteries" since 2003...we're on our 4th set now. Always thought they were the "gold standard", but it's great to hear about some other, valid competitors. Have looked at LiFePO4, but between all the fusing, BMS, alternator issues, and special charging requirements...and the runaway/fire issue... we've stayed away for now. KISS!

You have around 300-400 AH (usable) with your current setup. You could replace it with a pair of LiFePO4 of almost any size and get more usable. Or you could just go with a single 280-300ah battery and be done with it.

1. Risk of thermal runaway with LiFePO4 (vs NMC) chemistry is near zero. It's been forced to happen by putting the battery in an oven to 500-degrees and driving a spike through the cells.

2. Instead of replacing the alternator with an externally regulated one designed for LFP, you could install a simple 50a DC-DC charger from your engine start to the house LFP. You'd give up the very fast charge that a hi-output alternator gives you, but I'd guess charging would be at least as fast as your current setup (probably faster).

3. You should have over current protection already (fusing).

Something to think about....

Peter

 

[gknoepfler]

Very enlightening discussion. We've used 6 T-105s, connected as 3 "12v batteries" since 2003...we're on our 4th set now. Always thought they were the "gold standard", but it's great to hear about some other, valid competitors. Have looked at LiFePO4, but between all the fusing, BMS, alternator issues, and special charging requirements...and the runaway/fire issue... we've stayed away for now. KISS!

Agree completely. My T105’s were 8 years old, still holding full charge. I just thought it was time. The key is a good charger. I use Victron

 

[Boatcrazy]

gknoepfler-which Victron do you use? We just got rid of a Promariner 3-50 (max 50 amps total) and installed a Victron Multiplus, using it as both a charger(limited to 90amps, per Trogen, C13) and an inverter(3000w).

 

[gknoepfler]

I have a 32’ Island Gypsy with 3 battery banks, all lead acid, no inverter. Pretty simple. I bought the Victron IP43 charger. I met all of my needs with the 3 battery banks I have. Again, KISS!

 

[tiltrider1]

Very enlightening discussion. We've used 6 T-105s, connected as 3 "12v batteries" since 2003...we're on our 4th set now. Always thought they were the "gold standard", but it's great to hear about some other, valid competitors. Have looked at LiFePO4, but between all the fusing, BMS, alternator issues, and special charging requirements...and the runaway/fire issue... we've stayed away for now. KISS!

Talking about tossing all the false myths into one post.

Fusing requirements are really no different between Lead Acid and LFP. As banks get bigger more safety is required regardless of chemistry. A BMS provides a level of safety that is not seen in a FLA battery.

All battery chemistries require a charging profile. All but the oldest chargers have profiles built into them. While most charger have the FLA profile by default, AGM, Gel, and LFP all have their own profiles and usually its just a flip of a switch to change profiles.

Runaway fire, here the risk is almost greater from FLA than from LFP. FLA's can explode. LFP do not explode and we have yet to document a case of fire while in normal use.

Is the alternator an issue or is it just theoretically an issue. We don't have enough data so we default to the safe side which is running the alternator through the start batter, But, you either run the alternator to the house and then DC to DC to the start or your run the alternator to the Start bank and DC to DC to the house. Really no difference. Sticking with similar chemistry and using an ACR is not really a good practice.

 

[IWAB]

Luna, Then who makes Interstate’s batteries? I’ve had very good experience with Lifeline batteries by Interstate. Are you saying their Lifeline battery is not made by them, or at their specs?

Alex

 

[ranger58sb]

Luna, Then who makes Interstate’s batteries? I’ve had very good experience with Lifeline batteries by Interstate. Are you saying their Lifeline battery is not made by them, or at their specs?

Alex

Lifeline/Concorde make their own batteries. There aren't "Lifeline batteries by Interstate."

Interstate batteries I think are made by others, maybe Johnson... or other others.

-Chris

 

[luna]

If you read through Interstate's Website they do not claim that they actually make batteries, because they don't. No pictures of large battery manufacturing plants exist.
They market, promote, distribute and recycle batteries, and do it well.

As to who makes their batteries, you would have to ask Interstate.

About Us | Interstate Batteries

Through superior customer service and industry leading expertise, Interstate Batteries has become technician’s choice for 9 years and counting.

www.interstatebatteries.com

 

[SeaGator]

Getting ready to replace the batteries on our boat. Right now we have Trojan 105’s as our house bank. Looking online and see that Duracell makes a battery with close to the same specs as Trojan with a lower price. Anyone have any experience with Duracell ?

Duracell AGM batteries are the low-level East Penn line of batteries sold at Sam's Club. I got 7 years out of my Trojan group 31 batteries and thought I could save money by buying the Duracell units. Wrong! They were pieces of crap that didn't last 4 years. I had 8 for the house bank and three for the two drive engines and for the generator. All eleven failed using them for different purposes.

Now we are happy having converted to Li Time lithium batteries for the house bank and never looked back.

 

[mvweebles]

Duracell AGM batteries are the low-level East Penn line of batteries sold at Sam's Club. I got 7 years out of my Trojan group 31 batteries and thought I could save money by buying the Duracell units. Wrong! They were pieces of crap that didn't last 4 years. I had 8 for the house bank and three for the two drive engines and for the generator. All eleven failed using them for different purposes.

Now we are happy having converted to Li Time lithium batteries for the house bank and never looked back.

I had similarly disappointing experience with 6V golf carts from Costco. I have no idea what I was doing wrong but I never got more than about 4-5 years out of my house bank, and even then the batteries were pretty shot and seriously compromised. Had unstuck with lead acid, I'd have spent the extra money on Trojans. More expensive but better value.

Peter