The manual tells you what those initials mean!!!!! It also tells you the default settings for each program. But I am just going to get out and let other tell the answers that are in the manual.
Balmar Alternator and 618 regulator
- Thread starter Vehevala
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Vehevala
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Ok, good to know. Reading the instructions, I learned that when you reset the battery type it wipes out any changes you made previously in the advanced setting. So, when I reset the fdc setting it wiped out the changes Tim had suggested for FBA and FFL. I just went in and fixed those, I should have the Bluetooth adapter on Monday or Tuesday, that way I can go into the advanced program and see what all the settings are. I believe the temp settings may be too low, which is causing the alternator to go to “sleep”. The way the regulator is installed makes it super difficult to do the little magnetic thing.
Thanks for all your info and help, I really appreciate it!
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Vehevala
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I know what the manual says, but I don’t know how or what to change. I would have never known to change Fba to 45. The manual doesn’t explain that. Yes it says, the field threshold for bulk, but as a newly I really don’t know what that should be changed to.
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This is a little tangent to your question, but: (Fair Warning, if you aren't a Gearhead, skip this post!)
Recommend you de-rate your alternator a minimum of 20%. They are NOT rated to run all out indefinitely.
Ours has twin vee belts as well. Recommended that you change both belts at the same time with like belts.
To figure out rpm of the alternator, measure the circumference of the engine driven pulley (use a seamstress tape is easiest), or you can measure the diameter of the pulley and multiply x 3.14 (PI).
Now measure the circumference of the alternator pulley by either method above.
Real World Example: our engine pulley is 12 1/4". Multiply that by Pi, and you get roughly 38.5" circumference
Our Balmar 95 series, 210 amp alternator 2 vee pulley is 2 3/4" diameter, x Pi = 8.64"
Divide the engine pulley circumference (38.5) by alternator pulley circumference (8.64) you get 4.46.
This is the ratio of engine to alternator. So, for every 1 RPM of our engine, our alternator turns 4.46 RPM.
Now here is why this is important. Your alternator is rated at XXX amps at XXX RPM. Your alternator also has a MAXIMUM RPM. In our 95 series, 210 amp alternator's case, the never exceed RPM is 6,000 RPM.
We typically cruise between 1,050 and 1,100 RPM
So at 1,050 engine RPM (1,050 x 4.46), we get 4,683 RPM at 1,050
At 1,100 engine RPM (1,100 x 4.46), we get 4,906 RPM at 1,100
So, what is the max safe engine RPM we can use to ensure that we remain below the 6,000 Max RPM of the alternator?
Divide 6,000 by 4.46, and we find that an engine RPM of 1,345 RPM will give us an alternator RPM of 6,000.
So we know we should never exceed 1,345 engine RPM.
Given that our engine maxes out at 1,500 RPM (it's a Gardner 8LXB medium speed engine, coupled to a Hundested CPP) we will likely seldom exceed 1,200 or so RPM. In the even we wanted to exceed 1,200 engine RPM, I would turn off the field current with a switch in the pilothouse.
We routinely pull about 100 amps at 12vdc out of our alternator, at about 1,100 RPM.
Below is a chart showing 95 series alternator output, cold and hot at varying RPM's for those who are interested.
Note: The 95 series Balmar alternators were discontinued in 2024
Marler, is there a workaround for connecting the bluetooth adapter? I already have (an older version) of Victron gauge and shunt installed. What I understand is that the Balmar adapter plugs into their smart gauge, of which I have heard less than stellar reports. And I hate ripping out perfectly functional equipment.
The installation instructions also mention it can be connected to any point on the Smart Link network, like I'm running low on networks on the boat. I am getting close to wanting to abandon the whole thing and go to Wakespeed or Zeus, or LFP but I don't think I have enough boating years left to figure all THAT out. I know enough to get close on the Balmar magnetic screwdriver. I purposely mounted the regulator adjacent to the steps into the vee-berth so it can be programmed from a reasonably comfortable position.
To Vahevala, homeward sailor, Lwerder: Now that you have read, understood and mastered all of MarineHowTo (there will be a quiz, ha!), read also Rod's articles about calibrating the Smart Gauge. It's a moving target as your batts age, and the fact that they are not perfectly recharged most of the time.
The other way to power it would be through a smart shunt. You could add the shunt before or after the Victron shunt you have. You also need the network adapter for the regulator, and a network cable to connect the shunt and regulator.
I have the regulator, shunt, and gauge. But I hardly look at the gauge at all. I use the phone app instead. It gives you all the information the gauge does and more. I find the gauge to be reasonably accurate. I follow the regulator as it goes through the stages, or follow my Victron mppt controllers as they charge, and everything seems to be synced up pretty well.
Oddly, my xantrex inverter/charger will pump more into the batteries when I arrive home at the dock. It’s interface is almost worthless. It could be doing almost nothing, but the fans roar like it’s at full output. I haven’t really looked at that issue yet.
Ok, finally under way so I grabbed some screen shots of my settings. We were charging with solar all morning and the house was at 95% when we fired up at 2pm. Anyway, here they are.
Attachments
Yes, unfortunately
The screen shots I posted were in the advanced settings on the app. You can see when you get the Bluetooth adapter set up.
If the setup has a temp sensor on the alternator, it will derate by itself as it reaches the set temperature limit.
That said, if you actually log a few charge cycles, it becomes apparent that it is better to derate the max field to, or just above the typical fully heat soaked value that the system achieves. The reason for that is that (particularly the Balmar) cuts the field as it approaches the limit, and cuts it radically if the approach to the limit is at a steep slope. The Wakespeed is better at this but the same effect is there. On my boat, I ended up setting the field current limit to 82%. The result of that is the approach to the temp limit is close to asymptotic, yes there are field cutbacks but they are limited. It's a bit of a tossup if that actually reduces charge time (less current on startup until temp limit is reached, but fewer radical cutbacks, which reduce current). But everything is better behaved.
The Balmar was actually confusing itself with these, it appeared. What appeared to be happening was it would cut the field way back in response to the temp rise slope, charge current would drop way back, and it would interpret that as the gate to go to float. Can't say for sure, but that is what seemed to happen time after time.
l00smarble
Veteran Member
"CV" is I believe target voltage. Cv = 12.9v means that it is programmed to only charge to 12.9v so that isn't right. Programming is messed up.
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Vehevala
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I need the remedial class before I take the quiz!
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Vehevala
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ARGH, so I got the Bluetooth gateway, but have discovered that when the tech installed the 618 and SG200, we never actually had them talking to each other because we don’t have the connection from the shunt to the 618. So my SG 200 is only giving me reading from the battery bank itself, voltage and amps. Even with the gateway, I can’t get to advanced programming without that connection the Balmar SG2-0404. I guess my original purchase did not include that. And the tech who installed it had never done one before, so he didn’t know. So….when we arrive, finally, at our summer home port I will order that last piece of the puzzle.
In the meantime, the mechanic today discovered the alt temp wire was disconnected, and the battery voltage wire was loose. In addition the ground for the regulator was on the alternator ground, but when it is change to the main bus ground it pumps out more voltage. Why? IDK. Maybe my “Howto” class will help me understand that! We got 14.3 with a fully charged battery.
We also discovered that batteries are running pretty hot, and we found a fan switch for the battery compartment which we will use in the future. Finally talked to Balmar guru Tim and he thinks the battery temp being 42c is causing the regulator to tell the alternator to time out. Not sure why they are so hot, but honestly it’s been 88* and very humid on the Chesapeake.
We’re also going to remount the regulator so it is not directly in contact with the heat of the stainless reservoir, and move it lower so more accessible. It is super difficult to work on.
We will have more info when we get off the dock and unplugged for a few days. For now, fingers crossed these small tweaks make a difference.
Thanks Trawler Forum gurus for all of your help! Much appreciated.
twistedtree
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The batteries are 42C? That’s really hot. Where are they located? Are the hot only when charging?
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Vehevala
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The batteries are in the engine room, inside a cabinet. We just discovered the fan that we will turn on when underway tomorrow and see how that affects temps. They are only hot when charging. Tim from Balmar was also concerned about that, and feels that the regulator is shutting the alternator down when the battery temp is too high to protect them. IDK how we can cool them, except to put on the fan. Tomorrow we will be underway and get more info.
Vahevala
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Update: after 2 days cruising we are charging much better. The mechanic rerouted the ground from the regulator that was causing issues. We discovered a fan with an unlabeled switch for the battery bank, which is making a difference in temp. Still don’t have the Bluetooth capability as we need to purchase the attachment from shunt to regulator that was not included with our purchase. We’re on the move north now, so that will have to wait until we sit still for a while.
From anchor this morning, began at 12.5v. we bulk charged for an hour at 14-14.2v, got to 100% SoC. After 3 hours we are holding at 12.9v at 100% SoC. No drop in voltage on the longer runs. Batteries are maintain at about 33c. We believe the battery sensor on the regulator needs replacing, or rewiring, as it reads 38c,but actual temp is 33c. So, a few problems identified. The ground wire has made a big difference. Once I have Bluetooth I can adjust the advanced settings.
Hopefully, we have an uneventful cruise to Lake Ontario for the summer. Thanks to all who offered excellent help, gotta love TF.
Fair Winds from Vahevala
From anchor this morning, began at 12.5v. we bulk charged for an hour at 14-14.2v, got to 100% SoC. After 3 hours we are holding at 12.9v at 100% SoC. No drop in voltage on the longer runs. Batteries are maintain at about 33c. We believe the battery sensor on the regulator needs replacing, or rewiring, as it reads 38c,but actual temp is 33c. So, a few problems identified. The ground wire has made a big difference. Once I have Bluetooth I can adjust the advanced settings.
Hopefully, we have an uneventful cruise to Lake Ontario for the summer. Thanks to all who offered excellent help, gotta love TF.
Fair Winds from Vahevala
twistedtree
Guru
If moving the regulator ground connection made a big difference, then you have a significant voltage drop in the alternator wiring.
Also, what is the total capacity of your battery bank, and what is the net charge rate in bulk charge?
Also, what is the total capacity of your battery bank, and what is the net charge rate in bulk charge?
Vahevala
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So I finally got the Bluetooth connected to the MC618. What I found was that the bulk charge was set for 14.6 but 130 hours, which is outside of the parameters so I believe that voided it. In addition, the absorb was set for -0.0 v and 0 hours. So it was literally not on absorb at all. Float was the only one set correctly, which is 13.4 and .3 hours.
I have now set the bulk for 14.6 for .3 hours, absorb at 14 for .3 hours and float at 13.4 for .3 hours.
It is so easy with the app. So easy!
I will dig into the more advanced settings if need be, but for now I’m going to see how this works next cruise.
Thanks everyone for your patient and knowledgeable assistance.
I have now set the bulk for 14.6 for .3 hours, absorb at 14 for .3 hours and float at 13.4 for .3 hours.
It is so easy with the app. So easy!
I will dig into the more advanced settings if need be, but for now I’m going to see how this works next cruise.
Thanks everyone for your patient and knowledgeable assistance.
Vahevala
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What should we be looking for in the alternator wiring? The mechanic noticed this connection that he said was incorrect, but he didn’t want to fix it because it would “short something out”. It didn’t make sense to me. If the engine is off, the battery bank off, how you gonna short something out? Attaching a photo. Seems like easy to just move the bigger wire on first and smaller wire on top of it.
Our battery bank is 8 - 75 amp fdc batteries so 600 amp total.
You can see in the photo the small red wire is under the large red wire. Seems like we could just take them off and put the large one first.
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Delta Riverat
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Yup, no problem. Just be sure to remove the grounds from the batteries (be safe) first or be very careful and make sure those red wires don't touch anything (sparks)
mvweebles
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Going to be so much better. When you have all the parts to the system it works well. The app is so much better at setting parameters than the reed switch. You can reprogram the regulator as your cruising without leaving the helm.
I follow the charge profile changes and look at the amp hour meter to see how close everything tracks and it’s pretty darn accurate.
dqking
Member
To figure alternator RPM, measure/estimate OD of drive pulley (on crankshaft). Measure/estimate OD of alternator pully. Alternator RPM = Engine RPM * (Drive OD) / (Alternator OD). Should make sense because smaller pully turns faster than drive pully, yes?
I believe twisted tree and DDW are on the right track for you. I have a Balmar alternator and a Wakespeed regulator- properly configuring the regulator was the key for my installation. BTW, I’d be VERY hesitant to increase the alternator temperature. The Balmar has internal parts which will melt if the temp is too high. Unfortunately I know this from experience as I fried mine in Juneau, because the factory temp settings in the Wakespeed were too high for the Balmar.
It is also extremely important to get the appropriate cables and wiring so the entire system is consistently engineered.
In summary - the alternator is probably not the problem.
An issue with alternator temperature is where do you measure it? The bolt on sensors with the Balmar or Wakespeed have limited opportunities to install, and aren't going to measure an internal temperature of say, the diodes. When an alternator manufacturer rates the temperature limit where did they measure it? Most don't say.
twistedtree
Guru
This is indeed really annoying. Manufacturer’s rate for the ambient temp, but we also now all know that they also presume a certain output duty cycle based on recharging a start battery. But that duty cycle is unpublished.
Most external sensors bolt onto the pos or neg power post, and is a proxy the rectified temp, which is a proxy for the diode temps. 100C seems to be a common default limit, but I have never seen any alternator manufacturer specify that.
Another possible measurement point is the alternator case which is a proxy for the stator temp. The stator gets a lot hotter than the rectified, but it can also handle more. 300F seems to be a good limit for large frame alternators where you are sensing directly on the stator, but again, no published specs. Keep in mind that some alternators have an outer case with the stator inside. In these alternators the case temp will be a lot lower than 300F.
All crystal clear, right?
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