Balmar Alternator and 618 regulator

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Vehevala

Vehevala

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Joined
Nov 2, 2020
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25
Need help with our Balmar Alternator and Regulator.

We have brand new 250 amp Balmar alternator on our single screw trawler, connected to 618 regulator, 600amp Fdl battery bank. We have the s200 monitor on instrument panel.

The batteries 4 years old, were just load tested, and will reach full charge with shore power, geny with battery charger and solar.

I was able to speak with Tim Balmar tech support a few days ago, but since then he has not answered his phone. He had me reprogram the regulator Fba to 45 as well as the FFL to 45. It has not resolved the problem. The other tech guy, Chris, suggested raising the temp limit to 50c, haven’t done that yet.

Here is the scenario…
When we begin our cruise the we charge 13.5-13.6 v for 20 min. I’m assuming bulk charge. Then we drop from 12.8-12.4 for the remainder of the time….like up to 6-7 hours. It never goes back to absorb. We are drawing -24 to -31 amps.

At one point we unplugged the harness to the regulator, and rest it. It bumped up to 13.3v for 45 min and then sat at 12.6 again.

The regulator itself is saying bv 12.8 and cv12.9, but the batteries are reading 12.6.

When it reached 12.4 I turned on the solar and we immediately ramp up to 13.4.

I have called Balmar multiple, multiple times and left messages. Any ideas? We can’t get a mechanic on the boat until Monday or Tuesday, and really need to be moving north.
 
I just have more questions at this point.

What are the settings for:
bv
b1c
Av
A1c
Fv
F1c
FbA
FFL

Also, what are your battery manufacturer's settings for Bulk/Absorb, and Float?
 
First some basic info needed:
Did you de-rate the alternator output, or is it still set to provide 250 amps?
Also, have you figured out what RPM the alternator is turning at cruise RPM (a function of driven pulley size on engine vs pulley on alternator)
Also, are you using flat belt, or twin V belts?
 
You have almost an identical equipment list as I do. Do you have the Bluetooth adapter? If not, go buy one. And download the app.
You can get to all the advanced settings on the app and load them on the fly. You can also look at the regulator and see what stage it’s in, set the belt load, see the field current, etc…
I’m on the boat this weekend, so I could take a few minutes to check my settings if that helps. I thought it stored my settings too, but I can’t seem to find them. Maybe because the regulator is powered down at the moment.
The app can be a little crashy on startup sometimes, but it always works once it’s open.
 
Sorry about your problem. I have a 618 as backup but use a Wakespeed as it is much easier to configure and troubleshoot. I will pull up the doc on the 618 and see if I can offer some suggestions. Responses to @twistedtree questions would be helpful.


Your voltage of 13.5-13.6 seems like the first area to look at. Default for should be above 14 (I think). I think you need to review all the settings. I would start by returning it back to the default factory set up for flooded Lead Acid (I think that is what you have?).
 
slowgoesit said:
First some basic info needed:
Did you de-rate the alternator output, or is it still set to provide 250 amps?
Also, have you figured out what RPM the alternator is turning at cruise RPM (a function of driven pulley size on engine vs pulley on alternator)
Also, are you using flat belt, or twin V belts.
Click to expand...
No we did not have the alternator de-rated. It has twin belts. And I don’t know how to figure out the rpm of the alternator.
 
Ok this sounds simple, someone need to program their regulator. Download the manual.
 
So the battery manufacturer says:
Bulk 30A per 100Ah
Absorb 2.3-2.35v/cell
Float 2.25v/cell
I really don’t know what that tells me, can you explain?
 
READY said:
Sorry about your problem. I have a 618 as backup but use a Wakespeed as it is much easier to configure and troubleshoot. I will pull up the doc on the 618 and see if I can offer some suggestions. Responses to @twistedtree questions would be helpful.


Your voltage of 13.5-13.6 seems like the first area to look at. Default for should be above 14 (I think). I think you need to review all the settings. I would start by returning it back to the default factory set up for flooded Lead Acid (I think that is what you have?).
Click to expand...
Yes, we did return it to Flooded Lead Acid. The only change we made was suggested by Tim at Balmar, the Fba and FFL to 45
 
Bmarler said:
You have almost an identical equipment list as I do. Do you have the Bluetooth adapter? If not, go buy one. And download the app.
You can get to all the advanced settings on the app and load them on the fly. You can also look at the regulator and see what stage it’s in, set the belt load, see the field current, etc…
I’m on the boat this weekend, so I could take a few minutes to check my settings if that helps. I thought it stored my settings too, but I can’t seem to find them. Maybe because the regulator is powered down at the moment.
The app can be a little crashy on startup sometimes, but it always works once it’s open.
Click to expand...
I sure wish we had the Bluetooth adapter, but sadly, no. That will be purchased! If you could send me that info I would appreciate it.
 
Lwerder said:
I sure wish we had the Bluetooth adapter, but sadly, no. That will be purchased! If you could send me that info I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...
I feel like someone inadvertently set something wrong. Here’s a good starting point. Set the regulator for a different chemistry and save it. Then, go in and set for lead acid and save that.
That will return you to factory spec for lead acid. If balmar only recommended a couple of small changes, go ahead and input them.
I will be running my engine tomorrow and will copy my settings down and post them for you. I’m running agm though, so will be slightly different.
If you don’t have temp sensing for the batteries and alternator I highly recommend you get the sensors coming. I can bump up against the heat setting for the alternator if I’m charging heavily for a long time.
I also use the belt load manager to limit output so my belts don’t dust up the front of the engine.
 
You said this is a new 250A alternator.

- What did it replace, and what gauge is the cable from the alternator to the battery?

- Is there a dedicated negative cable from the alternator to the battery? With a 250A alternator, it is almost certainly isolated ground.

- Where is the MC618 battery sense wire connected?
 
Bmarler, are you running Lifelines? I eagerly await your settings. My system is tiny with 2 12v 125s in parallel, with 100A alternator. I could go on and on. I just want to compare, I think I may have it set a little hot. There is at least a tenth of a volt difference between settings and Victron voltmeter readings. The Victron matches my Fluke.

To the OP, the learning curve with the Balmars is a bit steep. I highly recommend MarineHowTo. But bring sturdy shoes. Steep, I tell you.
 
WillieC2 said:
Bmarler, are you running Lifelines? I eagerly await your settings. My system is tiny with 2 12v 125s in parallel, with 100A alternator. I could go on and on. I just want to compare, I think I may have it set a little hot. There is at least a tenth of a volt difference between settings and Victron voltmeter readings. The Victron matches my Fluke.

To the OP, the learning curve with the Balmars is a bit steep. I highly recommend MarineHowTo. But bring sturdy shoes. Steep, I tell you.
Click to expand...
No, I’m running full rivers. 6 on the start/stern thruster bank and 10 on the house/bow thruster/windlass bank.
You say a tenth of a volt different, is that the setpoint you programmed, or maybe the calculated voltage? The calculated voltage can be a surprising amount different due to temperature of the alternator and batteries.
Full river was good at supplying the information on that.
 
Lwerder said:
So the battery manufacturer says:
Bulk 30A per 100Ah
Absorb 2.3-2.35v/cell
Float 2.25v/cell
I really don’t know what that tells me, can you explain?
Click to expand...
1.Flooded lead acid batteries have a recommended max charge rate. So the 30A per 100Ah means 30 amps for each 100 Amp hour battery bank rating which for you would be 30 x 6 = 180 amps max charging
2. Flooded lead acid batteries are comprised of nominal 2 volt cells, so there are 6 to make up a 12 volt battery. Absorb rate then is 2.3 to 2.35 x 6 volts = 13.8 to 14.1 volts for your battery bank.
3. So Float would be 2.25 x 6 = 13.5
 
Lwerder said:
Need help with our Balmar Alternator and Regulator.

We have brand new 250 amp Balmar alternator on our single screw trawler, connected to 618 regulator, 600amp Fdl battery bank. We have the s200 monitor on instrument panel.

The batteries 4 years old, were just load tested, and will reach full charge with shore power, geny with battery charger and solar.

I was able to speak with Tim Balmar tech support a few days ago, but since then he has not answered his phone. He had me reprogram the regulator Fba to 45 as well as the FFL to 45. It has not resolved the problem. The other tech guy, Chris, suggested raising the temp limit to 50c, haven’t done that yet.

Here is the scenario…
When we begin our cruise the we charge 13.5-13.6 v for 20 min. I’m assuming bulk charge. Then we drop from 12.8-12.4 for the remainder of the time….like up to 6-7 hours. It never goes back to absorb. We are drawing -24 to -31 amps.

At one point we unplugged the harness to the regulator, and rest it. It bumped up to 13.3v for 45 min and then sat at 12.6 again.

The regulator itself is saying bv 12.8 and cv12.9, but the batteries are reading 12.6.

When it reached 12.4 I turned on the solar and we immediately ramp up to 13.4.

I have called Balmar multiple, multiple times and left messages. Any ideas? We can’t get a mechanic on the boat until Monday or Tuesday, and really need to be moving north.
Click to expand...
I have a Balmar with external regulator. Here’s how mine behaves. It has a charging routine that charges initially at the float voltage of around 13.5 for 20 minutes IF the batteries are fully charged. IF the batteries are in a discharged state, then the bulk rate is applied. IF the batteries are fully charged after the 20 minute period, the regulator only provides nominal charging around 12.7 volts to prevent overcharging battery. And occasionally, it disconnects the field of the alternator to stop charging all together for a short time - when this happens my tach stops working since it has an alternator input.

So I think what you are describing matches my experience. When you leave the dock, your batteries are fully charged. Don’t think any thing is wrong.
 
WillieC2 said:
Bmarler, are you running Lifelines? I eagerly await your settings. My system is tiny with 2 12v 125s in parallel, with 100A alternator. I could go on and on. I just want to compare, I think I may have it set a little hot. There is at least a tenth of a volt difference between settings and Victron voltmeter readings. The Victron matches my Fluke.

To the OP, the learning curve with the Balmars is a bit steep. I highly recommend MarineHowTo. But bring sturdy shoes. Steep, I tell you.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'm giving it my best effort!
 
twistedtree said:
You said this is a new 250A alternator.

- What did it replace, and what gauge is the cable from the alternator to the battery?

- Is there a dedicated negative cable from the alternator to the battery? With a 250A alternator, it is almost certainly isolated ground.

- Where is the MC618 battery sense wire connected?
Click to expand...
The old alternator was a Balmar200amp. The cable is hefty,IDK what size maybe as thick as my finger, and it attaches to the red nut on the 2nd battery. Same with the sensor wire. I'm attaching a photo.
IDK about a dedicated negative cable. I only see the big red cable going from the alternator to the battery.
Sorry I am not fully knowledgeable about this stuff! I appreciate your help and patience.
 
Jc180 said:
I have a Balmar with external regulator. Here’s how mine behaves. It has a charging routine that charges initially at the float voltage of around 13.5 for 20 minutes IF the batteries are fully charged. IF the batteries are in a discharged state, then the bulk rate is applied. IF the batteries are fully charged after the 20 minute period, the regulator only provides nominal charging around 12.7 volts to prevent overcharging battery. And occasionally, it disconnects the field of the alternator to stop charging all together for a short time - when this happens my tach stops working since it has an alternator input.

So I think what you are describing matches my experience. When you leave the dock, your batteries are fully charged. Don’t think any thing is wrong.
Click to expand...
A balmar 618 charge routine for fla or agm should be something like this.
Start delay. I set mine at 20 seconds or so. Gives time for the engine to stabilize before loading it up.
Bulk charge. This will be the max amps you can make till you reach absorption voltage.
Calculated bulk. Has some parameters to hit before going to absorb. Volts will be near the same as bulk charge.
Absorb. Voltage will be constant and amps will start to drop as the batteries charge.
Calculated absorb. Same extra set points to hit like calculated bulk has. You can set the current for when you want to shift to float. So when the amp output drops to that point, you’ll ramp the voltage down to float. Then the regulator will only provide the amps required to keep the volts at that setpoint, and provide whatever power the boat needs.
There might be a re-bulk timer but I can’t remember right now.
 
Vahevala said:
The old alternator was a Balmar200amp. The cable is hefty,IDK what size maybe as thick as my finger, and it attaches to the red nut on the 2nd battery. Same with the sensor wire. I'm attaching a photo.
IDK about a dedicated negative cable. I only see the big red cable going from the alternator to the battery.
Sorry I am not fully knowledgeable about this stuff! I appreciate your help and patience.
Click to expand...
I was hoping to get the info from the OP, but your situation matters too. What I'm looking for are possible sources of large voltage drops from alternator to battery. This can easily happen when a stock alternator that is maybe 50-100A is replaced with a 200-250A alternator without also upgrading the cabling. The result will be a potentially significant voltage drop between the alternator and the battery. Remote voltage sensing will compensate for the loss in the positive cable, but Balmar only has a single wire sense so it doesn't compensate for the loss in the negative current path.

Smaller alternators are also typically case-grounded, meaning the negative current path is through the alternator case, engine block, and whatever negative cabling is between the engine and battery. This can create problems when you try to push a lot more current through it. Most large alternators have isolated grounds which means the negative current bath is not through the case, but through a dedicated negative terminal and dedicated negative cable back to the battery.

The OP's alternator/regulator doesn't appear to be reaching the bulk/absorb voltage that it should, which either means the regulator isn't seeing the correct voltage, or the regulator isn't programmed correctly.
 
Lwerder said:
I sure wish we had the Bluetooth adapter, but sadly, no. That will be purchased! If you could send me that info I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...
I forgot you requested info regarding the Bluetooth adapter. Here’s a link to the 618 manual. On page 11 it explains the connections. Since you have the sg200 already hooked to the regulator, all you need is the Bluetooth adapter. It can plug into the back of the sg200 in the empty port.

Shop around for the adapter. Lots of vendors for it. Even Amazon sells it if you need it fast.
 
20250614_133515.jpg
20250614_133515.jpg

twistedtree said:
I was hoping to get the info from the OP, but your situation matters too. What I'm looking for are possible sources of large voltage drops from alternator to battery. This can easily happen when a stock alternator that is maybe 50-100A is replaced with a 200-250A alternator without also upgrading the cabling. The result will be a potentially significant voltage drop between the alternator and the battery. Remote voltage sensing will compensate for the loss in the positive cable, but Balmar only has a single wire sense so it doesn't compensate for the loss in the negative current path.

Smaller alternators are also typically case-grounded, meaning the negative current path is through the alternator case, engine block, and whatever negative cabling is between the engine and battery. This can create problems when you try to push a lot more current through it. Most large alternators have isolated grounds which means the negative current bath is not through the case, but through a dedicated negative terminal and dedicated negative cable back to the battery.

The OP's alternator/regulator doesn't appear to be reaching the bulk/absorb voltage that it should, which either means the regulator isn't seeing the correct voltage, or the regulator isn't programmed correctly.
Click to expand...
Sorry that reply was from me, the OP as well. I have 2 logins on Trawler forum and didn't realize it had switched. Lwerder=Vahevala!
 
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