Awful first attempt to buy a boat - lessons learned

[SteveK]

............................................ So we set up a date, owner was cc'd and we booked our tickets, rental car and hotel. They sent the address and owners contact info. We had to juggle a couple things to make it work, so we weren't able to fly out for a few weeks. A week before the trip, guy emails me and tells me sorry, boats been sold. .......................................

Do not do this again. you basically made the other buyer 'buy' the boat. You gave the seller and other buyer time to complete a sale. You gave them weeks to decide with the knowledge you were on the way. Hope you understand.

 

[Jklotz]

Do not do this again. you basically made the other buyer 'buy' the boat. You gave the seller and other buyer time to complete a sale. You gave them weeks to decide with the knowledge you were on the way. Hope you understand.

Yea, I got it now. Hard, painful lesson learned. Dealer used me to hedge his bets, at my expense. I was naive enough to not see it coming. 3 days later and I'm still fuming mad about it. But to your point, this absolutely will not happen again. Honestly, I'm as mad at myself as I am the dealer. I should have known better.

 

[leeman]

Not a boat owner yet, but business is business. I have yet to make a penny by resorting to treating a potential customer in the above fashion. This should not have happened...period. The seller, realizing the expense the buyer was going to incur and the distance he was travelling should have made it very clear that the boat would be sold to the first person that came in with cash. Pretty easy thing to do. What he did sounds pretty mercenary to me. No wonder you are pissed. Buy somewhere else.

Leeman

 

[Jklotz]

What he did sounds pretty mercenary to me. No wonder you are pissed. Buy somewhere else.

Leeman

I agree with you. Pissed is a little mild, I feel absolutely gutted. The amount time I spent working on the logistics of how we were going to get the boat back to GA, getting insurance quotes, looking into training captains in the area, investigating marina options, planning routes, watching training videos for the gear onboard, talking to other owners of the brand, the list goes on and on. Makes me sick. That's not on the company owner, he never asked me to do that. That's on me. I thought I was doing my due diligence. How could I have been so stupid? Hopefully some of that effort will come in handy down the line when we do get our boat. And I can assure you it will not be one of his.

To your point, there was no mention, whatsoever, about the possibility of the boat not being available or other interested parties over the course of many emails regarding the boat and the trip. Matter of fact, last Thursday 1:21pm, I received a response from him regarding a question I had asked about the fuel manifold, as if things were moving forward as planned. At 2:28pm, he emailed to told me the boat was sold. That was the first time I was even aware other parties were involved. I couldn't believe it!

 

[Portage_Bay]

That's not on the company owner, he never asked me to do that. That's on me. I thought I was doing my due diligence. How could I have been so stupid?

Don't beat yourself up for being stupid. You were ignorant of how boat sales are conducted. I use the word ignorant lacking knowledge or awareness, not rude or discourteous. Now you're better prepared.

 

[ksanders]

so the first thing you have to understand is that any boat you look at at any time someone can walk in the door falling in love and make an offer. Yes you might be looking at the boat. There might be 100 people looking at the boat, but it's the person who makes the offer that gets the boat.

Your challenge seems to me to be in the timing. You're looking at a boat online you want to go see it so you start making arrangements. A few weeks go by and someone else looks at the boat and says sure I'll take it.

What you need to do if you want to go see a boat is get on plane that day or the next day at the very most that weekend.

 

[Jerbro]

Yea, I got it now. Hard, painful lesson learned. Dealer used me to hedge his bets, at my expense. I was naive enough to not see it coming. 3 days later and I'm still fuming mad about it. But to your point, this absolutely will not happen again. Honestly, I'm as mad at myself as I am the dealer. I should have known better.

All the pain will be a distant memory when you finally get the right boat. It’s out there somewhere, you just haven’t found it yet. I had several painful attempts over 3 years to get what we wanted.. and I’m glad the other attempts failed.. we ended up with a great deal in the end. Good luck.

 

[Jklotz]

Thanks, I appreciate that. I'm so sick about this I need a few days off from boats to cool down, but I'll be back at it soon enough.

Still, I feel cheated by the dealer. All this could have been easily avoided with one simple sentence in an email. I was very open with him and he knew exactly what he was doing. He watched me make a big rookie mistake that he could have easily reversed and instead choose to profit from it. Makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[Jklotz]

A courtesy warning: "We are talking seriously with someone else", to an interested party who has been in contact and booked their trip to inspect sounds the decent thing to do.

That would have been nice, but I don't think it was his responsibility or obligation to tell me who he had been talking to. That's none of my business. I was thinking something more along the lines of "Before you book your trip, be aware I can't guarantee the boat will be available without an offer and money in escrow". If he had said that one sentence, this entire mess could have been avoided. From my perspective, that would have been the honest and reasonable thing to do. It's what I'd have done had I been in his position.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I agree. Instead he just used you to pressure the other guy. Amazing.

Lot's of nice used boats out there so don't give up. But yeah, the good ones go fast so when you see one don't delay.

 

[Jklotz]

Thanks so much guys, I really appreciate you hearing me out and offering encouragement and advice. Amazing really. I'm truly grateful to have this community as a resource.

 

[oguidry]

Like many others, I am sympathetic to your plight and, as others have suggested, there are other boats that may meet your wishes. I have owned a Back Cove and now a Sabre. American made by the same company. Both new and used are sold by competent dealers such as Demillos and Coastal Carolina Yacht Sales. A Sabre 38 or Back Cove 37 or 41 may be right for you and you would be dealing with honest and competent brokers.

 

[Jklotz]

Thanks, I'll look into it.

BTW - some slightly better news. I was able to change the flight dates for March Trawlerfest. There was a fee, of course, but at least I'll get something out of this, beyond an education that is.

 

[Nick14]

FWIW and as others have opined, I think you got caught in an unfortunate 'business as usual' situation in the boat selling world.

I empathize with how frustrating it feels. When I was searching for a used boat a few years ago I had many similar experiences, some of which I chronicled in this post -

Boat buying nightmares

I’ve had a lot of frustrating experiences trying to buy a boat over the past two years (in the $400k-$600k range). I thought it might be amusing to start a thread to share stories (at least it might be cathartic commiseration for anyone else who might be in a similar situation). Here are just a...

www.trawlerforum.com

There were a number of boats I tried to buy only to find out they were sold to someone else. I had multiple instances of being told another buyer made a higher offer than I did (even when I offered the full asking price) and being asked if I wanted to bid against myself in an 'auction.'

As frustrating as it is, that's the way it works. As others have said, until a deposit is received, a boat is for sale and available to the first person who puts the money on the table. From the perspective of whoever bought the boat, the broker may have been giving them the courtesy of letting them know another buyer was out there.

I'm not condoning a seller's behavior, but from their perspective most of the people who ask about a boat for sale are lookie-loos (tire kickers, fender kickers, whatever you want to call them). The majority of people purportedly interested in a boat aren't really serious and never follow through. I'm not a broker but just from my own personal experiences selling boats have experienced this first-hand. One person came 5 (five) times to see my boat, wanted a free sea trial, endless questions, etc., and of course didn't follow through.

Again, from the perspective of a non-broker just individual, I've observed some 'tells' that sometimes (but of course not always) suggest a less than serious buyer. From my own experiences, more novices than experienced boaters seem to end up being lookie-loos and don't actually end up buying a boat. Likewise, the longer the conversations drag on, the greater the likelihood of a sale never happening. Experienced boaters seem to more often know what they want and whether or not a boat is for them, and either buy it or not. It's not to excuse any potentially impolite behavoir, but from a seller's perspective you may have seemed like a less serious prospect than whoever it was that bought the boat.

In an ideal world it would be nice to actually see and check out a boat before deciding whether or not to buy it. Unfortunately the real world is rarely ideal. Boats in this size range aren't commodities. Many are somewhat unique, and the supply of them is limited. If there's more than one serious person looking at it, it might sell out from under you.

If you want a boat don't let one unpleasant experience sour you on it. The most important thing is to find a boat that best fits your needs, use, and budget. Any unpleasantness in the buying experience will be quickly forgotten once you're out on the water having fun.

Good luck!

 

[Seevee]

Jklotz,

I'm sorry for your experience in not getting the boat, and you've learned a lot on this thread, I'm sure.
I won't condemn the seller for his actions. How do you know the other buyer didn't go thru the same thing, or that was more than one other potential buyer.
As a seller, I would normally not disclose other buyers. It's often thought of as a cheap trick to get you to buy quicker.
Did you tell the seller that you were very interested and serious about this boat? If so, there should have been some agreement laid out first.
As a buyer, I'd make an offer contingent on inspection, with a deposit held my my representative or attorney. As a seller I'd want a non refundable deposit to take the boat off the market while you looked at it, but would apply that to the purchase price. I would also accept a conditional deposit but with a strict deadline for performance.
The last thing a seller wants is to loose a sale with a good buyer because another, who did not purchase, held the boat off the market while they looked.
I've bought a number of boats (planes, houses, cars) with the intent of buying it on at the first look, unless there were something major wrong or misrepresentation, so I'd agree to a non refundable deposit to hold it until I could do my due diligence. Out of the 21 boats, 20 planes and almost 100 houses, I've never had a bad experience in buying or selling. Cars, not so much, but they are throw away items. Lucky, I guess.

 

[Jklotz]

I'm not condoning a seller's behavior, but from their perspective most of the people who ask about a boat for sale are lookie-loos (tire kickers, fender kickers, whatever you want to call them). The majority of people purportedly interested in a boat aren't really serious and never follow through. I'm not a broker but just from my own personal experiences selling boats have experienced this first-hand. One person came 5 (five) times to see my boat, wanted a free sea trial, endless questions, etc., and of course didn't follow through.

Thanks Nick, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. In this particular case, I seriously doubt he considered me a "tire kicker", but maybe I'm wrong? I'd have thought that going to the time and expense to book a trip, during peak season (do looky-lou's spend $1500 just to go kick tires?), to make an offer on the boat, after spending time with him at trawlerfest, driving hours to see one of his boats and asking specific questions about the financial aspect of the transaction, that'd have alleviated that sort of perception. But like I said, maybe I'm wrong?

Regardless, I'm already talking to a buyer's broker and beginning my search again. As upsetting as this experience has been, I have learned A LOT. I think the real problem was, being a builder, he didn't work with buyer's brokers so I went into this unrepresented. Even a bad broker would have told me don't book the trip unless you've got a signed offer on the table. Now I know.

At the end of the day, I suppose all education must be paid for. It's just not always in the form of tuition.

 

[more]

Thanks Nick, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. In this particular case, I seriously doubt he considered me a "tire kicker", but maybe I'm wrong? I'd have thought that going to the time and expense to book a trip, during peak season (do looky-lou's spend $1500 just to go kick tires?), to make an offer on the boat, after spending time with him at trawlerfest, driving hours to see one of his boats and asking specific questions about the financial aspect of the transaction, that'd have alleviated that sort of perception. But like I said, maybe I'm wrong?

Regardless, I'm already talking to a buyer's broker and beginning my search again. As upsetting as this experience has been, I have learned A LOT. I think the real problem was, being a builder, he didn't work with buyer's brokers so I went into this unrepresented. Even a bad broker would have told me don't book the trip unless you've got a signed offer on the table. Now I know.

At the end of the day, I suppose all education must be paid for. It's just not always in the form of tuition.

sorry you are a classic "tire kicker".
in Setember 1 tire kicker 3 time visit my boat I sale. last 3 time be heavy rain. Hi coming from Pula to Split 3 time 6-7 hour driving. Day after coming guy from Germany after 1 hour on boat I find marina where is possible lift boat,we lift boat hi inspect pay lift in cash,leave boat on dry. next week he return,we make contract, he pay online boat, I receive money I give him contract, for 2 day I delete boat from register . finish story. and after 2 week this guy from Pula want 4 time visit boat, and when I say boat is sold he say I am not fer,hi spend money on trip blblblbla

 

[Taras]

What I have done in the past is do a FaceTime walk through with the broker before you even go look at the boat. Of course, you'll not see as much as if it were "live", but it'll give you a better idea if you love the boat or not. If you love the boat and want to "lock it up", then make an offer and agree on a price. Once you get an agreed, signed offer, THEN spend the money to fly to see the boat. Remember, you make the offer contingent on "your personal inspection" and of course a sea trial, survey, etc. Go see the boat, if you don't like it, cancel the contract.....

 

[MonarchBeacher]

Manufacturers, Dealers, and brokers are in business to sell the vessel, not store it. As a broker for 25+ years, I see this all of the time. Potentials want me to inform them "when someone else is interested". Why? If they are a committed buyer, then step up, now and write the purchase agreement with deposit.
Also, I let potentials know of the level of interest in a vessel and let them know "first money takes it", and they usually suspect a "hustle approach" akin to used cars. Yet when the call back a week later they are disappointed that the vessel in under contract.
If there is an offer in place, I encourage them to leave a back-up and few folks do. That's indicative of their level of purchasing commitment: if the first person backs out, seldom do those that claimed interest step up. They were not committed buyers in the first place. .

 

[MonarchBeacher]

I have been doing vessel sales long enough now that I am seeing folks I met when I first started in boat sales 25+ years ago who are bringing their grand kids to the boat shows. They are still looking for "their perfect boat". Looking is more desirable than owning. So until there is a commitment in place, with conditions of course, you are a "researcher". Get a good broker and they will make the whole process a lot easier.

Thanks, I'll look into it.

BTW - some slightly better news. I was able to change the flight dates for March Trawlerfest. There was a fee, of course, but at least I'll get something out of this, beyond an education that is.

Is that in Ft. Lauderdale?

 

[mvweebles]

Manufacturers, Dealers, and brokers are in business to sell the vessel, not store it. As a broker for 25+ years, I see this all of the time. Potentials want me to inform them "when someone else is interested". Why? If they are a committed buyer, then step up, now and write the purchase agreement with deposit.
Also, I let potentials know of the level of interest in a vessel and let them know "first money takes it", and they usually suspect a "hustle approach" akin to used cars. Yet when the call back a week later they are disappointed that the vessel in under contract.
If there is an offer in place, I encourage them to leave a back-up and few folks do. That's indicative of their level of purchasing commitment: if the first person backs out, seldom do those that claimed interest step up. They were not committed buyers in the first place. .

"First money takes it" describes a transactional sales approach where sales person segments their world into slivers of single items for sale. Works well for high volume products. At the buyers budget of >$700k where a sales cycle often extends to 2+ years and transaction volume is low, a successful broker would take pains to understand they have two buyers vs one boat - a more consultative approach.

Assuming the OPs description is roughly accurate, the broker missed an opportunity to preserve the relationship and make two sales instead of one. At that price point, a buyer often travels a considerable distance at expense - a knowledgeable broker in that segment will balance the chicken/egg situations that invariably arise when a boat goes under contract during that logistical window.

Peter

 

[Jklotz]

Also, I let potentials know of the level of interest in a vessel and let them know "first money takes it", and they usually suspect a "hustle approach" akin to used cars. Yet when the call back a week later they are disappointed that the vessel in under contract.

I hear what you are saying. I was naive, wasn't represented (builder doesn't work with brokers) and made a rookie mistake. I know better now. Still, can't help but think the outcome would have been different had the builder said "first money takes it", or probably more appropriately something to the effect of "Before you book your trip, be aware I can't guarantee the boat will be available without a contract and deposit". That's how I would have handled it. But he choose not to. Maybe he assumed I already knew that? Either way, doesn't exactly leave me with the warm fuzzies when I think of the brand now.

It's all good now though. I have a broker now, as far as I know he sold the boat, and I've got several others lined up to see in Ft. Lauderdale. Before all this, I was fixated on his brand. Maybe this is a good thing, it's made me look at a lot of other options I'm not sure I would have had this gone another way.

Fingers crossed we'll get to spend this season on the water!

 

[Nick14]

"first money takes it"....... "Before you book your trip, be aware I can't guarantee the boat will be available without a contract and deposit".

FWIW I think these understandings are a basic given to and among most people buying and selling boats.

Especially in the mid to high six figure price range, most people assume a fairly substantial level of prior knowledge and experience. There are very few 'rookies' buying boats in that price range.

It doesn't make it 'nice', it's just how it is.

 

[RedRascal]

During COVID I saw a couple boats come under contract from out of state buyers that would lock up a boat right away without seeing it. They would have the contingencies built in to the contract to pass on the boat if they didn't like it once they saw it in person. What I am still seeing now are boats <$50k being sold without a survey. This can definitely be an attractive situation for a seller if the buyer agrees to skip a haul out and survey.

 

[magna 6882]

I think the same thing you experienced is the same for for all things sold now. I sell surplus equipment and supply's from our business and its common for folks to travel. I do tell them the unit will be sold when someone writes a check. Most dont show up and surprisingly the ones who really want me to hold are the ones most likely to not get there.

 

[Jklotz]

I think the same thing you experienced is the same for for all things sold now. I sell surplus equipment and supply's from our business and its common for folks to travel. I do tell them the unit will be sold when someone writes a check. Most dont show up and surprisingly the ones who really want me to hold are the ones most likely to not get there.

So you tell them the meeting is conditional before they make arrangements. Works for me, that's all I wanted.

 

[psneeld]

It's painful, but we usually all have some great teaching moment in life and that is often a failure rather than success.

When I came across my last boat, I wanted a particular layout and hopped on a plane the next day from Jersey to Florida. Even just waiting a few days after seeing the ad, the owner took the ad off the internet and was going to call a broker the same day I told him I would be there tomorrow to look at the boat. I knew the trip was going to be hundreds of dollars for a boat sight unseen but the better deals never last long. Had I waited the price was going up (due to the broker) more than my trip cost.

A good thing is all that prep planning didn't go to waste, it all helped you make informed decisions throughout your boating life.

My advice now to you is better wrap your mind around the boating industry in general, if you think that buying experience was bad enough to make you take days off between boat searches. Wait till you deal with repair, insurance, docking and boat traffic in congested areas..... that's where you see the majority of "blowing off steam" threads here.

 

[Nick14]

Just purely as a little comic relief (and maybe you'll get a few laughs at my expense)(hey, we all need to be able to laugh, especially at ourselves), a while back I posted a thread telling about just some of my recent boat buying experiences. What you encountered with the boat you mentioned is nothing compared to some of the fun I had and the characters I dealt with -

Boat buying nightmares

I’ve had a lot of frustrating experiences trying to buy a boat over the past two years (in the $400k-$600k range). I thought it might be amusing to start a thread to share stories (at least it might be cathartic commiseration for anyone else who might be in a similar situation). Here are just a...

www.trawlerforum.com

FWIW over the course of my last search there were about 5-10 instances (I lost count) of boats I made appointments to see, confirmed the appointments the day before (or sometimes two days), then, after traveling, when I showed up at the marina or broker’s office was told ‘the boat is sold.’ When I’d press why I wasn’t told before making a multi-hour drive, the answer would invariably be ‘we just got the offer this morning.’

I wasted several thousand miles pointlessly driving. I suspect in many if not most of those cases my coming was used by the selling broker as a stalking horse to prompt an offer from another buyer, ‘a hot buyer is coming tomorrow, get your offer in now before it’s too late.’

Most of the time I never got called by brokers to tell me a boat had sold. I only discovered it when I showed up. It seemed to me once an offer is in hand, most brokers forget about other potential buyers. A call beforehand was a rare courtesy. Surprisingly, I found most didn’t care about keeping a relationship with a back-up buyer in case the deal fell through.

There were a small handful of brokers who were appreciated exceptions to this. They’re in the small group I personally would work with in the future.

Boats and buyers in the mid to high six figure price range might be an uncommon commodity. Not a ton of buyers, but also not a lot of boats. Bear in mind that for any boat you might be interested in, there are probably also other buyers out there who share your interest.

It’s all just ‘business as usual.’ As a wise teaching from the Buddhist Brahmavihara offers, "No matter how much I may wish things were otherwise, things are as they are."

 

[dannc]

The president should have informed you of the sale and what was happening. I would have a tough time buying a boat from them in the future. The OP might have not understood the boat buying process but I would have expected better communication from the company.

Even though the OP is talking about loosing the money for the flights, I suspect the OP is more upset with loosing the boat after all of the work he has done and lack of communication with the company.

Regarding money for plane flights. We have traveled across the US, once to China, two trips to the NL, and one to Ireland to see boats and talk to boat builders. Still don't have a boat but we know who we would have build a boat, and more importantly, who we don't want to build us a boat.

 

[Jklotz]

Just purely as a little comic relief (and maybe you'll get a few laughs at my expense)(hey, we all need to be able to laugh, especially at ourselves), a while back I posted a thread telling about just some of my recent boat buying experiences. What you encountered with the boat you mentioned is nothing compared to some of the fun I had and the characters I dealt with -

Boat buying nightmares

I’ve had a lot of frustrating experiences trying to buy a boat over the past two years (in the $400k-$600k range). I thought it might be amusing to start a thread to share stories (at least it might be cathartic commiseration for anyone else who might be in a similar situation). Here are just a...

www.trawlerforum.com

FWIW over the course of my last search there were about 5-10 instances (I lost count) of boats I made appointments to see, confirmed the appointments the day before (or sometimes two days), then, after traveling, when I showed up at the marina or broker’s office was told ‘the boat is sold.’ When I’d press why I wasn’t told before making a multi-hour drive, the answer would invariably be ‘we just got the offer this morning.’

I wasted several thousand miles pointlessly driving. I suspect in many if not most of those cases my coming was used by the selling broker as a stalking horse to prompt an offer from another buyer, ‘a hot buyer is coming tomorrow, get your offer in now before it’s too late.’

Most of the time I never got called by brokers to tell me a boat had sold. I only discovered it when I showed up. It seemed to me once an offer is in hand, most brokers forget about other potential buyers. A call beforehand was a rare courtesy. Surprisingly, I found most didn’t care about keeping a relationship with a back-up buyer in case the deal fell through.

There were a small handful of brokers who were appreciated exceptions to this. They’re in the small group I personally would work with in the future.

Boats and buyers in the mid to high six figure price range might be an uncommon commodity. Not a ton of buyers, but also not a lot of boats. Bear in mind that for any boat you might be interested in, there are probably also other buyers out there who share your interest.

It’s all just ‘business as usual.’ As a wise teaching from the Buddhist Brahmavihara offers, "No matter how much I may wish things were otherwise, things are as they are."

Hmmm, guess my experience wasn't a one off. Jeez, you got put through the ringer! Some of what you posted was downright shady! At least the owner, in my case, was decent enough to email as soon as he had a contract, which was several days before the travel date. Had I been in your shoes, I'd have been pissed off!

I've heard a similar quote - "Man plans, God laughs".