Autopilot control head- upper helm or lower?

[Barking Sands]

Sorry for the most basic of questions but I just wanted to pick the brain of the guys that have lots of miles under their belt with autopilots and an upper/lower helm. I currently have everything in the boxes and after doing some additional clean up/out and modification of my existing wiring I will be installing all new electronics. For now I will have one dedicated autopilot control head.

Put the AP control head in the upper or lower helm and why?

Will have upper and lower chart plotters that I believe can control the AP but probably not as conveniently as the dedicated controller.

I am currently leaning on keeping it inside the boat at the lower helm. My thinking is that If I am at the lower helm its probably due to weather. Workload may be higher and a dedicated control head will free up screen space for navigation or radar etc on the not so big 9 inch screen of the chart plotter?

But in Florida we spend the vast majority of time on the upper helm.

Or maybe I am just over thinking the entire thing?

appreciate any insight...

 

[Gdavid]

I would place the control head where every you plan to use it most, does your control head tie directly to the AP computer or does it tie into the NMEA network? If it is the same brand as your MFD, you will have full control of the AP.

I just finished the install of my Simrad system AP, I don't have a control head for either station but have full control through my MFDs at both stations. My MFDs have buttons and a a knob and are used very intuitively with the AP, if I had only touchscreens, I wouldn't like it as much. There are also controllers without the screen that are smaller and less expensive which tie into the NMEA network. I did install one of these. Navico (parent company of Simrad) calls them OP12, mine is the previous version, the OP10. They are convenient for saving space.

 

[psneeld]

I had mine at the lower for reasons you stated and I didn't use the upper helm all that much...but I did like to wander around so I went on ebay and found a remote for the AP that worked great for just a couple hundred.

 

[Barking Sands]

Gdavid. Thanks for the insight. The entire system is new and all the same brand. The control head will be hooked into the NMEA 2000 network. The two MFD's are touch screens but will control AP. How intuitive that control is with the MFD I probably wont be able to tell until its being used.

Garmin:

923XSV X 2
Reactor 40 AP with GHC20 controller, shadow drive, GRF-10 rudder feedback, 2.0 pump
GMR™ 18 HD+ Radome
GMS™ 10 Network Port Expander
GC™ 100 Wireless Camera

 

[Barking Sands]

I had mine at the lower for reasons you stated and I didn't use the upper helm all that much...but I did like to wander around so I went on ebay and found a remote for the AP that worked great for just a couple hundred.

They do make a remote. That could come in handy. I actually met a guy with a 34 Marine Trader who said he only steered with the remote in manual mode and never touched the wheel...lol.

 

[mvweebles]

Like Gdavid, I recently upgraded with Simrad. I opted for a dedicated control head at both upper and lower stations. If I recall correctly, was about $600 so not horribly expensive (funny how boats warp your sensibilities). I considered just using thr MFD as Gdavid did but didn't want to clutter the display screens as I am a bit restricted in real estate.

Good luck.

Peter

 

[Barking Sands]

Thanks Peter. I can spring for another controller but at some point I am trying to reign myself in...lol. Its likely I will not be successful.

I just checked on the remote. I can get it for $175 and it actually has some neat features. Such as just pointing the remote in the direction you want to go.

"Gesture control for heading hold and course corrections lets you simply point the remote where you want to go"

Could be a gimmick, but if it works it could also be quite useful.

 

[mvweebles]

Since moving to Florida from San Francisco in 2005, I have noticed a remarkable increase of remotes being destroyed by leaking and bulging batteries. Presumably, hotter and more humid weather is the culprit. I now avoid remotes like the plague - not just on the boat but everywhere. I'm alone in this thinking though as remotes are pretty popular.

Congrats on getting new electronics. Pretty exciting.

Peter.

 

[Barking Sands]

Peter- you're not wrong about the remotes. I lived in St Pete most of my life and now I am just north of you in New Port Richey/Tarpon. I have had to buy quite a few replacement remotes from eBay over the years

Now if its a remote that I don't use often I just don't put batteries in them.

 

[psneeld]

Peter- you're not wrong about the remotes. I lived in St Pete most of my life and now I am just north of you in New Port Richey/Tarpon. I have had to buy quite a few replacement remotes from eBay over the years

Now if its a remote that I don't use often I just don't put batteries in them.

I have had a few issues with batteries but like you things that sit, batteries are removed.... things that get used a lot and the batteries switched a couple times a year have not been an issue for me.

The remote for my Raymarine AP ate batteries pretty fast...then again I used it for most of the driving from Jersey to Florida and back for a decade or so.

I had about 8 remotes on my boat and none ever seemed to give me an issue so I have no clue why some remotes become hand grenades for batteries. Maybe brand of batteries?

 

[Taras]

If you're replacing the entire electronics suite, why not do it right and put a control head at the upper and lower helms? I have upper and lower helms on my boat and don't like the idea of running up and down the stairs every time I needed to change the heading so I have a control head at both locations. You'll be glad you spent the little extra for the convenience!!

 

[psneeld]

If you're replacing the entire electronics suite, why not do it right and put a control head at the upper and lower helms? I have upper and lower helms on my boat and don't like the idea of running up and down the stairs every time I needed to change the heading so I have a control head at both locations. You'll be glad you spent the little extra for the convenience!!

One control head and a remote increases flexibility and has been discussed.

Extra expense for no reason isn't necessarily "doing it right". Even without the remote, "doing it right" is a debatable view.

 

[Comodave]

We put in all new electronics last winter but I only have one helm so it was a fairly obvious choice. But I personally don’t like to control the autopilot with the MFD, I would much rather use the control head. But you can do it with the MFD and if you do it enough you will get adept at it.

 

[Barking Sands]

If you're replacing the entire electronics suite, why not do it right and put a control head at the upper and lower helms? I have upper and lower helms on my boat and don't like the idea of running up and down the stairs every time I needed to change the heading so I have a control head at both locations. You'll be glad you spent the little extra for the convenience!!

I understand. After spending thousands...what's another $600 to "complete" the system? I appreciate your opinion. Unless there is a knock down reason I am missing I think I will install the items I have and see how the dust settles. The upper helm MFD will control the AP. I just dont yet know what that looks like. I have to assume it cant be all that bad.

 

[mvweebles]

I am about to start sea trials to find all the bugs from new install. My wife and I were just talking last night that we need to work together to establish a display pattern - what gets displayed where on the various screens and small data repeaters. It's something we will do together as we plan on extended multi-day runs. For us, being able to quickly access "dodge" functions and know DTG to waypoint type information is helpful, thus we too opted for a dedicated display where the relevant data is located in rhe exact same place all the time. Same with depth.

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

I understand. After spending thousands...what's another $600 to "complete" the system? I appreciate your opinion. Unless there is a knock down reason I am missing I think I will install the items I have and see how the dust settles. The upper helm MFD will control the AP. I just dont yet know what that looks like. I have to assume it cant be all that bad.

Leave yourself a terminal block to get power for the control head (likely already there with all other stuff being installed). You can easily add the dedicated A/P later if desired. Not that difficult assuming you have space to physically mount it..

Peter

 

[Barking Sands]

Now that is a great point Peter. I have to incorporate my wife in the process. Simplifying things that are familiar to her is going to be fairly important. That may be the best argument yet for making upper and lower helms identical.

For the dodge function I did get the Shadow Drive, which allows you to just grab the wheel in a hurry. Once done hand steering for some time period it will automatically resume.

 

[mvweebles]

Now that is a great point Peter. I have to incorporate my wife in the process. Simplifying things that are familiar to her is going to be fairly important. That may be the best argument yet for making upper and lower helms identical.

For the dodge function I did get the Shadow Drive, which allows you to just grab the wheel in a hurry. Once done hand steering for some time period it will automatically resume.

You really have to think about how you will be using the boat. We are an outlier in that we do overnight runs. As a past delivery skipper who did mostly 3-7 day runs, having the crew understand the navigation system was important for a selfish reason. Allowed me to get some sleep.

In my opinion, women often make better route planners and navigators than men. Men tend to skip steps and be focused on the the end. Women worry about the stuff in the middle. Anything you can do to coax your wife to be involved, interested, and vested will pay dividends. It is so much more fun to have a partner along. My wife is pretty strong headed - I had to take her learning style into account and let her make [safe] mistakes. I also trust her implicitly. Her sense of smell and hearing are far greater than mine and I always take her concerns seriously.

I love cruising with my wife. She's a bit ambivalent about boats, but enjoys my company and the sense of adventure that comes with cruising.

Peter.

 

[jleonard]

I mounted mine on the flybridge as that’s where I did 99.99% of my running. It was a Sitex unit and the “control head” was a handheld type.
I also mounted/ wired a socket at the lower helm that I could plug the control head into if I needed to run from below.

 

[psneeld]

There are some very good articles on the web about the ergonomics of where to mount displays and controls.

I know most would think it's overkill on many boats, but simple things like "situational awareness" based on "scan" of information in some studies have determined that placing things like fishfinders above normal eye level in relation to primary nav instruments like old school plotters can be helpful.

Any aviators out there probably know it's importance and the huge amount of research the aviation world has placed in it.

Anyway.... I have since lost my other links, but they are out there if one is interested....

Here's one that I was able to find quickly.....

https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/e...ergonomicstomarinesystems/ergo-gn_e-aug18.pdf

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I actually met a guy with a 34 Marine Trader who said he only steered with the remote in manual mode and never touched the wheel...lol.

That is apparently what my PO did. But his reason was that the old Wagner hydraulic steering system leaked when it was used. It had to be topped off after 20 hours whereas the Simrad didn't. Kind of odd steering a 30' boat with a 2" wheel, but that's what I've been doing until I get a chance to rebuild the Wagner. Actually, I just saw somebody post about Locktite hydraulic fitting sealant. Might try that first.

 

[Sleepy]

Barking Sands - I have the same Garmin equipment with main AP control head at Lower helm. Control AP through the MFD at upper. I can ALMOST fully control the AP from the upper. The one thing I cannot do, or haven't figured out how to do is this: while following a course where the AP follows the route and makes turns etc ( great feature) sometimes I have to veer off to avoid a Crab pot for example. I can easily add or subtract 1° to avoid the obstacle. But getting back to the original route is cumbersome. I have to go back to user data/routes etc to find and restart the route. It picks up wherever I am but it's several screen changes to do it. Wish I could find easier way. Other than that, I haven't seen a difference in what I can do from the AP control head or a MFD.

 

[Sleepy]

And count me as one who steers as much as possible with the AP not the wheel. It can hold a line much better than I can.

 

[koliver]

I am not familiar with the Gramin, as I have a Raymarine. Its remote allows a 10° course change by holding the button till it makes a second beep. A 1° change is a single beep. I find that useful and sometimes use the remote even when I am sitting at the lower helm, right in front of the base unit with its knob to change direction. I have noticed the high battery consumption in the remote, but that is manageable once you are aware of it.
Where to put the base depends on your boat, where you are, your boating style, so is really variable. Here in BC, lots of steering is done from below on a boat without an enclosed flybridge, but once you keep out the cold, that could be reversed.

 

[Barking Sands]

Barking Sands - I have the same Garmin equipment with main AP control head at Lower helm. Control AP through the MFD at upper. I can ALMOST fully control the AP from the upper. The one thing I cannot do, or haven't figured out how to do is this: while following a course where the AP follows the route and makes turns etc ( great feature) sometimes I have to veer off to avoid a Crab pot for example. I can easily add or subtract 1° to avoid the obstacle. But getting back to the original route is cumbersome. I have to go back to user data/routes etc to find and restart the route. It picks up wherever I am but it's several screen changes to do it. Wish I could find easier way. Other than that, I haven't seen a difference in what I can do from the AP control head or a MFD.

So with the dedicated control head in that scenario it is easy to "resume course"? I really appreciate the info. Very helpful.

 

[Barking Sands]

Koliver...thanks for the details. I have waivered back and forth on what to do. But thanks to the great feedback here I think I am going to get a dedicated upper and lower AP control AND get the remote...lol. So much for trying to reign in my spending. That lasted about 2 weeks.

I can blame all you TF'ers though.

 

[ttompkins]

Yes, you have to figure out what works for you the best. Here is what I came up with for me. Two years ago I replaced my non working auto pilot with a new Garmin Reactor 40 unit. Installed the controls at the upper helm. I do more than 95% of my driving at this station. If I am forced off the fly bridge to the lower station I have a dedicated wireless remote at the lower station to use. Works like a charm. Problem solved. Just don't over think things too much.

 

[Barking Sands]

Yes, you have to figure out what works for you the best. Here is what I came up with for me. Two years ago I replaced my non working auto pilot with a new Garmin Reactor 40 unit. Installed the controls at the upper helm. I do more than 95% of my driving at this station. If I am forced off the fly bridge to the lower station I have a dedicated wireless remote at the lower station to use. Works like a charm. Problem solved. Just don't over think things too much.

I hear you. Ill just spend more money so I can stop thinking altogether.

Adding a GHC50 and remote.

 

[jleonard]

You’ll like the remote. I had a wired one and we used it countless times while riding on the bow. Great place to enjoy a calm sea with little traffic.

 

[Barking Sands]

You’ll like the remote. I had a wired one and we used it countless times while riding on the bow. Great place to enjoy a calm sea with little traffic.

Everyone I have talked to that has a remote has been nearly unanimous when regarding the remote. The newer Garmin remotes you can hold a button and point the remote in the direction you want to go. Pretty neat. Thanks for the feedback.