Anchor for a rocky bottom

[SteveK]

My takeaway is the type of anchor mattered less than the fact I did not drop an anchor pennent from the eye on the forward shank. Would have been invaluable had I not been rescued by the food hearted fellow cruiser.

Peter

Peter, you missed a golden opportunity. You had a chance to test the idea of a pennant with two 6 packs. First ask the diver to tie on onto the stuck anchor and see if you can get it out.
I have wondered about this, never done it, but what size rope must be tied on that will not break if the chain with chain circled around could not dislodge the anchor. Anyone retrieve an anchor with a pennant? Theory sounds good. I used to think a pennant was to mark the spot for the return visit with a diver.

 

[mvweebles]

Peter, you missed a golden opportunity. You had a chance to test the idea of a pennant with two 6 packs. First ask the diver to tie on onto the stuck anchor and see if you can get it out.
I have wondered about this, never done it, but what size rope must be tied on that will not break if the chain with chain circled around could not dislodge the anchor. Anyone retrieve an anchor with a pennant? Theory sounds good. I used to think a pennant was to mark the spot for the return visit with a diver.

Never thought of a teachable moment. But I have little doubt a pennant would have saved the day. The anchor was in 12-feet of clear water and easily seen - was a bit frustrating to be honest. The diver freed it with ease with a reverse pull so a pennant would have worked in that situation.

When I backed down to set the anchor the day before, it snatched hard with a jerk unlike any I've felt before. BTW - because of the sunlight, I was not able to see the bottom when I dropped anchor.

I suspect the days of swapping anchors to match a bottom are in the rear view mirror. Boats (and their anchors) have become bigger and anchors have become much better and more universal. I agree with @guy with a boat, It's impractical and largely unnecessary to swap anchors for a specific anchorage.

Personally, I'll pay closer attention to notes in cruising guides.

Peter

 

[Donald Tyson]

I've anchored all over Maine and Canada, and have never had an issue finding mud or sand to anchor in. A good depth sounder gives insight into bottom conditions, and even in hard rock areas there are almost always patches of sediment to be found.

The only time I've had issues with my Rocna was in the Bahamas and keys when anchoring in thin sand over limestone. Maybe a different anchor would give better service in those conditions, but more times than not it's easier to try a different spot than it is to swap anchors.

ETA: I can think of one occasion when I had genuine need for a kedging anchor. I ran up on a pile of rocks in Georgian Bay and tried to use my Fortress to kedge off. That anchor came up seriously bent out of shape.

Your experience in the Bahamas must be one of the toughest to beat in a sizable boat. Someone Else mentioned a packed smooth slippery clay. I could see that as bad also. I can see Maine hiding secrets in places.

 

[Donald Tyson]

I may have missed it, but what boat and anchor size are we talking about? Do you mean an anchor size small enough to deploy by hand and with rode already attached?

I was envisioning an anchor on a windlass with chain and rode. I wouldn’t want to be on the bow wrestling with an anchor change while drifting into the “bad anchorage, no engine, lee shore” scenario. You just have to go with what you have rigged and make the best of it. That’s why I’m a believer in one competent anchor.

If we are talking about an alternative anchor that is hand deployed and already rigged with rode and stored for easy access, then sure, that is a possible option. Changing a heavy anchor on a bow pulpit in bad conditions is probably not going to be your best option.

Sound advice for sure. In the end we can't always pick our battles. That is what this post is about.

My boat is a small C-Dory Cruiser, 22' long and maybe 4500lbs loaded. I am the Human windlass, lol. So any anchor can easily be dropped overboard or kept on the bow pulpit permanently. I have the ever handy Bruce up there permanently. I'm just thinking to store a second anchor, one for a Rocky/rubeley/boulderstrewn bottom. It would be stored ready to hand deploy with rode on it. Might even install a set of chocks for this up there.

I just don't have the experience you folks have. I'm greatful you all helped. I was a summer "sun and sand" boater for years. I didn't realize how much I got away with.

 

[Jeff F]

Fair enough. But I'd suggest a Fortress is a great #2 anchor, especially if Bruce is #1. Note that it's a *lot* easier to stow away than any other anchor, and if you're in sand or mud it'll save your butt every time. Then a fisherman as #3.

You'll stand out with one on your bow all the time!

 

[Jeff F]

Your experience in the Bahamas must be one of the toughest to beat in a sizable boat.

Yeah, I don't try to beat it. Some things you just live with. If I'm aboard and have appropriate alerts/alarms in place I can live with more uncertainty.

I was with a buddy boat in the Bahamas sheltered on the bank side of a small cay riding out a bit of a blow. They started slowly dragging, and I was suggesting they get a better anchor until I started dragging as well. We both dragged probably 1/4 mile over the 36 hours we were there. But the wind direction was such that it didn't matter.

 

[rslifkin]

When I say Rocky Bottom I mean anything that a plow type or Danforth type won't hook well on. A good example would be my beloved Delaware River during Shad season. Its a riprap bottom that is all cemented in with sand and gravel. With the above types they grab a bit....they can't be backed down on or they pull out. I'd be fishing away and all the sudden another boat wake or a shift in stability and the anchor lets loose. The old style Navy anchors don't work either.

Realistically, with a bottom that bad, it may just not be possible to anchor safely there at all. Also keep in mind that in some bottom types (like cobblestone) a physically larger / heavier anchor is at an advantage, as it's larger relative to the stuff on the bottom and also heavier to help work its way into the bottom. Because of that, a larger boat with a correspondingly larger anchor will have a better chance in certain poor bottoms.

 

[Donald Tyson]

Basically correct (below). But remember, this thread is for a boat that Is without power. And that may make it tough. You had better be sure your anchor is up to it.


"Because of that, a larger boat with a correspondingly larger anchor will have a better chance in certain poor bottoms."

 

[psneeld]

Basically correct (below). But remember, this thread is for a boat that Is without power. And that may make it tough. You had better be sure your anchor is up to it.


"Because of that, a larger boat with a correspondingly larger anchor will have a better chance in certain poor bottoms."

It is somewhat true whether the boat is under power or not.

Reports of anchoring failures with Danforth styles generally surround failure to dig or something wedging the fluke (like a clamshell). These don't seem to scale up to larger Danforths say over 75 lbs or ones with larger fluke clearances. Another factor is the sharpness of their fluke points. After sharpening tips on some of my early Danforths, the success increased dramatically on grass and shell bottoms. Most of the common failures seem pretty independent of whether the boat has power or not.

Other failures such as the dragging of smaller Bruces and plow types again seem to be just anchor design and come after the anchor is supposedly set, so not sure that's a power/no power situation either.

I haven't heard of as many issues just arising from not power setting the anchor, other than just wondering whether the anchor of any type set initially.

 

[rslifkin]

I agree, in a no power emergency situation you're going to know if the anchor grabbed because you're probably moving enough that the boat stopping will be noticeable. In a normal anchoring scenario I power set to make sure it will set and hold acceptably on the available bottom and that I didn't drop the anchor on a stray tarp or something. But for an emergency, if it stops the boat, that's about all I can expect to know.

 

[Donald Tyson]

Yes and it may be a once in a lifetime event.
See you all on the water.

 

[psneeld]

Yes and it may be a once in a lifetime event.
See you all on the water.

If you think emergency anchoring is a once in a lifetime event, I can only hope that would be true for everyone.

Unfortunately as an assistance tower.. I know many long distance cruisers and pro captains that aren't that lucky.

Only time will tell.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. D. "...it may be a once in a lifetime event." Or it may not. We've had to deploy an "emergency anchor" on at least 2 occasions.

Fist time I recall was experiencing an engine overheat alarm in a busy and fairly narrow channel. As circumstances would have it, there was a spot very close at hand. Pulled off to the side and dropped our 50lb Bruce then proceeded to change the blown fan belt. (Lehman and yes, I DID have spare belts in place). Took all of 10 minutes and we were on our way.

Second time I picked up a sea strainer full of weeds leaving a harbour. Lots of room so dropped our lunch hook (no wind or current to contend with BUT other boat traffic) and cleaned out the strainer. Again about 10 minutes and gone.

So I doubt the "...it may be a once in a lifetime event."

 

[Donald Tyson]

Great example.

 

[Mako]

Reports of anchoring failures with Danforth styles generally surround failure to dig or something wedging the fluke (like a clamshell). These don't seem to scale up to larger Danforths say over 75 lbs or ones with larger fluke clearances. Another factor is the sharpness of their fluke points. After sharpening tips on some of my early Danforths, the success increased dramatically on grass and shell bottoms. Most of the common failures seem pretty independent of whether the boat has power or not.

@psneeld I would say your comments about Danforths are accurate. Some of my experience:
* My 22lb Danforth copy on my panga in the Persian Gulf was horrible at cutting into the hard pan bottom. I ground the tips sharp and then had much higher success.
* On a previous boat of about 40+ tons the 35lb Danforth that came with it was worthless. I left it in the parking loft as a freebee but should have kept it for the rocks off Catalina. So I bought 2 other Danforths from a salvage yard. My “working” anchor was a 60 pounder, which was about my limit to lift over the handrail with chain. My storm was 100 pounder which needed the davit to launch/retrieve, but was an incredible anchor.

 

[Donald Tyson]

All of my boats have been very small boats compared to yours. That thing said one of my first Danforth anchors was sprung and I didn't know it. I thought it was something I was doing wrong, but it would often let loose at the most inconvenient time.. So I got another Danforth same size and everything and I compared them and I realize that the first one had been sprung somehow and would open so wide that it would just pop out once it dug in. They are great for sand, but I sure wouldn't trust them on a weedy bottom without sharpening them first. They're worthless on a packed ruble bottom. Too lite I believe. Once again, maybe if they were sharpened.
Should I sharpen the Bruce anchor?

 

[Jeff F]

Should I sharpen the Bruce anchor?

Replace it with a modern generation anchor.

 

[Donald Tyson]

I was thinking a Ronca.

I've never used a Bruce. I'm told it is acceptable for average conditions as it is slightly oversized on my new boat. But we're talking engine out conditions over rock bottom. Most all-purpose anchors would do poorly.

 

[BruceK]

I was thinking a Ronca.

I've never used a Bruce. I'm told it is acceptable for average conditions as it is slightly oversized on my new boat. But we're talking engine out conditions over rock bottom. Most all-purpose anchors would do poorly.

In post 34 ,when speaking of the bow of your boat, you said" I have the ever handy Bruce up there permanently". Did you mean "Rocna"? Or is it a Bruce, mounted, unused so far, while "ever handy".
If you`ve got a Bruce anchor, or a Rocna, at the ready, try it, see how it fares, report back, we can go from there.

 

[Donald Tyson]

In post 34 ,when speaking of the bow of your boat, you said" I have the ever handy Bruce up there permanently". Did you mean "Rocna"? Or is it a Bruce, mounted, unused so far, while "ever handy".
If you`ve got a Bruce anchor, or a Rocna, at the ready, try it, see how it fares, report back, we can go from there.

It’s a Bruce. I take possession of the boat next week though I know the seller and he loved this anchor. I will try it on the St John’s in two weeks. I personally want a Rocna Style eventually.

 

[SeaDogAK]

Halibut fishing last year we got our Bruce anchor stuck on a rocky bottom at about 150’. We circled the boat around the anchor and were able to back it off, but the anchor now has a bit of a bend in it.

 

[Donald Tyson]

You know why we all fish for that species?

 

[SeaDogAK]

Normally if I want to catch them and not rockfish I try to avoid rocky bottoms.

 

[Donald Tyson]

We fish for them “jus for th halibut.”

Sorry. PopPop joke. Had to tell it.

 

[SeaDogAK]

We fish for them “jus for th halibut.”

Sorry. PopPop joke. Had to tell it.

I knew that was coming.

 

[RT Firefly]

 

[Jeff F]

I was thinking a Ronca.

I've never used a Bruce. I'm told it is acceptable for average conditions as it is slightly oversized on my new boat. But we're talking engine out conditions over rock bottom. Most all-purpose anchors would do poorly.

I'd point out that if you're looping you'll spend no more that 1% of your time over rock bottom. The likelihood of engine out and not drifting over good holding is infinitesimally small.

The Bruce works well in all but weeds in my experience, and you'll definitely encounter weeds somewhere along the line.

 

[rslifkin]

I'd point out that if you're looping you'll spend no more that 1% of your time over rock bottom. The likelihood of engine out and not drifting over good holding is infinetissibly small.

The Bruce works well in all but weeds in my experience, and you'll definitely encounter weeds somewhere along the line.

It's even a more specific scenario than that. Loss of propulsion, drifting over a bad bottom, and also in a situation where you need to get the boat stopped NOW before you hit something, rather than having room to drift a bit.