Airmar DST800 - another one bites the dust

[twistedtree]

Boy these things are junk. In my case it's a DT800 (Depth and Temp, but no Speed) This is the third one I've owed, and the third one to fail within a few years. So a 100% failure rate. And I know I'm not along. The temp reading seems to be the first thing to fail, and mine is now reading 10-15 deg high.

Has anyone used the NMEA 01830 version and had it last longer? The transducer for my fish finder is fine, as have been all the other fish finder transducers I have ever owned. So it's not generically Airmar, but seems to be specifically the DTS800 family.

 

[rslifkin]

Is there a reason you specifically need a transducer that directly speaks NMEA2000 or 0183? Being that basic non-smart transducers seem to be more reliable I'd rather just have 2 hooked up to different MFDs (or one to one of the black box network sonar modules to avoid needing an MFD on for a depth reading) if you want redundant transducers.

 

[heysteve]

Has anyone used the NMEA 01830 version and had it last longer?

I've had one for a few years and so far so good! It's hooked up to a Raymarine ITC-5 to get NMEA 2000.

 

[twistedtree]

Is there a reason you specifically need a transducer that directly speaks NMEA2000 or 0183? Being that basic non-smart transducers seem to be more reliable I'd rather just have 2 hooked up to different MFDs (or one to one of the black box network sonar modules to avoid needing an MFD on for a depth reading) if you want redundant transducers.

I'm considering ways to move in that direction. I have the N2K "smartducer" for a few reasons. One is just for redundancy in case my stand-alone fishfinder fails. Two is to have temp and depth without having to have additional electronics turned on. Three is that it's located in the laz at the aft of the boat to give depth when backing into a shallow area. But it doesn't work so I think it's unlikely I will ever replace it or buy another one. Fool me three times and I'm the idiot.

I could install another fish finder, but that's probably the most expensive fix, and also takes up panel space. I don't have an MFD and have not bought into any of the proprietary networks, so that eliminates most of the black boxes that I know of. Plus they are probably more $ than a stand alone fishfinder. In many ways an old-school depth sounder that also has N2K or 0183 output could work, but those seem to have gone the way of the Dodo bird. I did see what is effectively a simple black box depth sounder I think from Actisense, so I'll check that out again. All this is from older research so things have probably changed at least a little bit.

If anyone knows of a blackbox that works with a standard transducer for depth and temp, and puts out either N2K or 0183, I'd be very interested.

 

[twistedtree]

I've had one for a few years and so far so good! It's hooked up to a Raymarine ITC-5 to get NMEA 2000.

That's a very different beast, and in my experience the type of setup you have works very well. Your transducer is analog, and the ITC-5 interprets it and produces depth, etc. in N2K format.

The DST800 is a so-called "Smartducer" and plugs directly into the N2K network. It's only these Smartducers that seem to fail in 5 seconds. The one before this only lasted a couple of months.

But I'll take a closer look at the ITC-5. If it outputs standard N2K data as opposed to proprietary SeaTalk stuff, it might be what I'm looking for.

 

[rslifkin]

I'm considering ways to move in that direction. I have the N2K "smartducer" for a few reasons. One is just for redundancy in case my stand-alone fishfinder fails. Two is to have temp and depth without having to have additional electronics turned on. Three is that it's located in the laz at the aft of the boat to give depth when backing into a shallow area. But it doesn't work so I think it's unlikely I will ever replace it or buy another one. Fool me three times and I'm the idiot.

I could install another fish finder, but that's probably the most expensive fix, and also takes up panel space. I don't have an MFD and have not bought into any of the proprietary networks, so that eliminates most of the black boxes that I know of. Plus they are probably more $ than a stand alone fishfinder. In many ways an old-school depth sounder that also has N2K or 0183 output could work, but those seem to have gone the way of the Dodo bird. I did see what is effectively a simple black box depth sounder I think from Actisense, so I'll check that out again. All this is from older research so things have probably changed at least a little bit.

If anyone knows of a blackbox that works with a standard transducer for depth and temp, and puts out either N2K or 0183, I'd be very interested.

I guess that begs the question of what nav software you're using, as I assume it's something PC based. Knowing what software you're using will likely give an idea of what equipment would integrate easily.

 

[twistedtree]

I see now that Airmar has two different products with the same name, or nearly the same name. A DT800 could be a traditional analog transducer used with a black box or other converter, or it could be a "Smart" transducer that outpute NMEA 2000 or 0183 directly. The "smart" designation is the key, and indicates the transducers that I and others have had so much trouble with.

 

[twistedtree]

I guess that begs the question of what nav software you're using, as I assume it's something PC based. Knowing what software you're using will likely give an idea of what equipment would integrate easily.

My charting software is Coastal Explorer in conjunction with a RosePoint Nemo interface. Through that I can display most any N2K or NMEA 0183 data. I also use Maretron's N2KView, and through that can display at least some N2K data. I would like to end up with my laz depth data on N2K since that let's me display it in the most locations. That made the Smart DT800 very attractive. If the data is 0183 I can convert it, but that possibly complicates the config and adds cost. What I can't use is something like a Furuno DFF since it outputs data in a proprietary format. Same with a Raymarine equivalent, the model of which escapes me at the moment.

I found the Actisense black box, and it only outputs 0183. So I would need to run power to the Actisense device, and also have an 0183 to N2K converter. That makes for a complicated install. That said, the Actisense device has a CAN port on it, so I'm guessing that someday they will add N2K support. That would be great because it could presumably grab power off the N2K bus as well. But it doesn't currently exist.

 

[rslifkin]

My charting software is Coastal Explorer in conjunction with a RosePoint Nemo interface.

Ah. From some quick searching it doesn't look like there's a sonar solution that works with Coastal Explorer. I was kinda hoping you were going to say you were using TimeZero, as that would work with the Furuno network sonar units.

 

[boomerang]

Just curious if you leave your DST on more than the rest of the electronics?
I was toying with adding a Garmin nmea2000 intelliducer to run solely on the nmea2000 buss ,mainly so I can have the depth on our anchoring app while all of the other electronics are off (except for the Cortex AIS ,which is where the app gets its ship and anchor position from). Instead, I have a Furuno RD30 and a 235 kHz thru-hull transducer that is in essence a nmea 0183 smart 'ducer. I interfaced the RD30 0183 out to the 0183 in of the Cortex which acts as a multiplexer so I get depth on my anchor app as long as the RD30 remains on. Not a big deal because it isn't that much of an added draw. That transducer has lasted gosh knows how many years...it was on the boat when we got it and is still pinging away.

 

[Mambo42]

I have a DST810 and also that one failed, so got another one, which I will try in about a week. When we were in Turkey in 2023 we heard there was a complete recall of all DST800's as well as DST810. After that they told me everything was functioning again, so I bought the DST810. Everything fine until the depth meter started working intermittently. All of a sudden the depth would start to variate rapidly and that is not a problem when you are out at sea, but you don't want to see this when you are coming into an anchorage or port.
Must say that they were more than helpful, I handed in my old one and they did not even test it, just gave me a new one. That one I did test before taking along, it worked fine, so now I hope it will function in the boat.

 

[boomerang]

I just looked at Furuno's 235DT-PSE transducer and darn if it isn't an Airmar DSM re branded. Huh. Now watch , mine will crap out next time I turn it on.

 

[twistedtree]

Just curious if you leave your DST on more than the rest of the electronics?
I was toying with adding a Garmin nmea2000 intelliducer to run solely on the nmea2000 buss ,mainly so I can have the depth on our anchoring app while all of the other electronics are off (except for the Cortex AIS ,which is where the app gets its ship and anchor position from). Instead, I have a Furuno RD30 and a 235 kHz thru-hull transducer that is in essence a nmea 0183 smart 'ducer. I interfaced the RD30 0183 out to the 0183 in of the Cortex which acts as a multiplexer so I get depth on my anchor app as long as the RD30 remains on. Not a big deal because it isn't that much of an added draw. That transducer has lasted gosh knows how many years...it was on the boat when we got it and is still pinging away.

The DST directly connects to the NMEA network, so is on 100% of the time.

It sounds like you have a "Smartducer", but the 0183 version rather than the N2K version.

 

[twistedtree]

I have a DST810 and also that one failed, so got another one, which I will try in about a week. When we were in Turkey in 2023 we heard there was a complete recall of all DST800's as well as DST810. After that they told me everything was functioning again, so I bought the DST810. Everything fine until the depth meter started working intermittently. All of a sudden the depth would start to variate rapidly and that is not a problem when you are out at sea, but you don't want to see this when you are coming into an anchorage or port.
Must say that they were more than helpful, I handed in my old one and they did not even test it, just gave me a new one. That one I did test before taking along, it worked fine, so now I hope it will function in the boat.

Perhaps I'll get ahold of Gemeco (US distribution and support arm of Airmar) and complain. But in the past is has been a waste of time. They say to send the transducer in for testing and they will send a new one if defective. OK, great, but what about the hole in my boat in the mean time? And they can't offer a fast enough turn around to do it during a haul out.

 

[twistedtree]

I just looked at Furuno's 235DT-PSE transducer and darn if it isn't an Airmar DSM re branded. Huh. Now watch , mine will crap out next time I turn it on.

I think all of Furuno's, Garmin's, Raymarine', and Simrad's transducers are Airmar. It seems they have the entire market.

Your 235DT-PSE looks to be an analog transducer, and not one of the Smart transducers that connects directly to N2K or 0183. In my experience the type you have work forever.

 

[twistedtree]

Ah. From some quick searching it doesn't look like there's a sonar solution that works with Coastal Explorer. I was kinda hoping you were going to say you were using TimeZero, as that would work with the Furuno network sonar units.

Right, I'm looking for something that is industry standard N2K (preferred) or 0183 since that's what all my interfaces are. Also, the Furuno network sounder black boxes (and other vendors too) and pretty expensive for what I need.

I need to check further, but a Raymarine i50 looks like it might work.

 

[boomerang]

I think all of Furuno's, Garmin's, Raymarine', and Simrad's transducers are Airmar. It seems they have the entire market.

Your 235DT-PSE looks to be an analog transducer, and not one of the Smart transducers that connects directly to N2K or 0183. In my experience the type you have work forever.

Garmin's Intelliducer doesn't look like anything Airmar offers but I might be mistaken. The 235DT is a Smartducer with 12v in & 0183 out. In your original post, you were wondering if anyone was successfully using a 0183 DST800. After 3 DST's, I'd stick a 235DT in the hole this time...even if I had to add a multiplexer of some sort!

 

[ranger58sb]

They say to send the transducer in for testing and they will send a new one if defective. OK, great, but what about the hole in my boat in the mean time? And they can't offer a fast enough turn around to do it during a haul out.

They would mean just the insert and cable, yes? So you could replace the insert with a blanking plug in the meantime?

That can be done while still in the water... although not without it's potential comedy, of course.

And doesn't speak to turn-around time...

We have a Garmin version of Airmar's DST800, I think. Identifies itself as DST200 on the network. Only rarely see speeds or temps (but only rarely look, since we can get that from a different (Furuno/Airmar) 'ducer anyway).

-Chris

 

[twistedtree]

They would mean just the insert and cable, yes? So you could replace the insert with a blanking plug in the meantime?

That can be done while still in the water... although not without it's potential comedy, of course.

And doesn't speak to turn-around time...

That's the theory, but it gets more complicated on some boats. I have the "long" version because there is a fairing block. The long tube doesn't have the internal flapper dam that the short tube has. The flapper dam greatly reduces water inflow when you do an in-water change of the transducer. Without it, you get a lot more water. And on my last boat it was at a depth of 4-5', so it would have been a real gusher. And you have to do it twice, once to remove the transducer and install the plug, and again to remove the plug and install the new transducer. I looked around my nice dry and clean engine room and decided keeping it dry and free from a salt water shower was more important than the transducer.

The same is true today. The transducer isn't as deep in the water (maybe 2'), but it's located right in between a watermaker, diesel furnace, and HVAC chillers. I really don't want salt water sprayed all over that stuff.

 

[ranger58sb]

That's the theory, but it gets more complicated on some boats. I have the "long" version because there is a fairing block. The long tube doesn't have the internal flapper dam that the short tube has. The flapper dam greatly reduces water inflow when you do an in-water change of the transducer. Without it, you get a lot more water. And on my last boat it was at a depth of 4-5', so it would have been a real gusher. And you have to do it twice, once to remove the transducer and install the plug, and again to remove the plug and install the new transducer. I looked around my nice dry and clean engine room and decided keeping it dry and free from a salt water shower was more important than the transducer.

The same is true today. The transducer isn't as deep in the water (maybe 2'), but it's located right in between a watermaker, diesel furnace, and HVAC chillers. I really don't want salt water sprayed all over that stuff.

Yep, all that.

If it were critical, perhaps a diver could temporarily block from the outside? Not sure leaping through all those hoops would gain much, though...

-Chris

 

[twistedtree]

Garmin's Intelliducer doesn't look like anything Airmar offers but I might be mistaken. The 235DT is a Smartducer with 12v in & 0183 out. In your original post, you were wondering if anyone was successfully using a 0183 DST800. After 3 DST's, I'd stick a 235DT in the hole this time...even if I had to add a multiplexer of some sort!

The naming on this stuff makes my head spin. You have Airmar's names, which aren't very consistent, then each OEM's names for the same products, and then the name that shows up on the N2K network which can be different yet again.

Is the 235DT designation a Furuno model number? That's what I find when searching. I see now that it's 0183 - I jumped to the conclusion that it was analog when I saw the 7 pin connector. As best I can tell it's a relabeled Airmar Smart transducer, albeit 0183 and not N2K. Does that sound right?

And how does the Garmin Intelliducer fit in? Have you used one? It looks pretty interesting. My guess is that it's an analog transducer, probably from Airmar, coupled with Garmin's black box. It looks like the transducer cable plugs into the box on top, and out of that comes either 0183 or N2K. I'd guess that box is Garmin's and that it's essentially the blackbox depth device that I'm looking for. Now to see if they have a long tube, bronze, 235khz version...... so far I only see short, plastic, and 160 khz.

 

[twistedtree]

Yep, all that.

If it were critical, perhaps a diver could temporarily block from the outside? Not sure leaping through all those hoops would gain much, though...

-Chris

Exactly. To many leaps for the value it brings. I won't change my current transducer until I haul next, but now's the time to figure out what to replace it with.

 

[rslifkin]

Is there a reason it needs to specifically be a 235khz transducer? I'd definitely want to stay up around 200khz or other higher frequencies for feeling your way into shallow spots, but I'm not sure the exact frequency matters much.

I have found that with my 50/200khz unit it over-reads depth in 50khz mode when in places with a layer of super soft silt on the bottom (the 50khz signal blows right through the silt and reads off the firmer mud below, the 200khz signal bounces off the silt and reads that as the bottom).

 

[ranger58sb]

Is there a reason it needs to specifically be a 235khz transducer? I'd definitely want to stay up around 200khz or other higher frequencies for feeling your way into shallow spots, but I'm not sure the exact frequency matters much.

In our case, the different frequency is so it doesn't interfere with the other 200/50 Hz transducer.

-Chris

 

[tiltrider1]

The only thing I can tell you is that I bought a Garmin Airmar Smart DST810 from Fisheries. It runs on my NMEA200 backbone and all my Raymarine equipment display the data. I have only had it for 6 months.

 

[heysteve]

Airmar has a terrific cross reference here. It contains OEM part numbers, wiring info and manuals.

 

[twistedtree]

Is there a reason it needs to specifically be a 235khz transducer? I'd definitely want to stay up around 200khz or other higher frequencies for feeling your way into shallow spots, but I'm not sure the exact frequency matters much.

I have found that with my 50/200khz unit it over-reads depth in 50khz mode when in places with a layer of super soft silt on the bottom (the 50khz signal blows right through the silt and reads off the firmer mud below, the 200khz signal bounces off the silt and reads that as the bottom).

It's mostly about keeping the various transducers separated in frequencies so they don't interfere with each other. My FCV fish finder is 50/200khz, and that's what originally motivated making the Smart transducer 235khz. I also have a search light sonar that is 150khz, so I think the 160khz Garmin Intelliducer might be problematic. 235khz seems like the best pick, and has been working fine for depth with all sounders running at the same time.

 

[boomerang]

The searchlight sonar transducer with it's horizontal beam won't interfere with a vertical beam transducer even if it's the same frequency.
I haven't heard of the Intelliducers having issues but then again I'm out of the biz and don't keep up with stuff like I used to. I thought it would be an inexpensive option and worth a try since you weren't having much luck with the DST's.
Agree 235 kHz is a good all-around frequency. It doesn't interfere with other onboard transducers using the more common 200kHz , it will read well in shallow water yet packs enough punch to read depths of 3-400'.