Advice Needed Please

[Not_Lost]

I am very new to the boat buying process and power boats in general. I have had extensive experience with sailboats (up to 45 ft). I have read, read, read and watch lots of YouTube videos but I wanted to ask the 'experts' in trawler boats and buying from a private seller. I am looking at the following boat and wondered if anyone has any experience with this boat and/or any specific questions. I have a 3 page document that I created of questions to make sure to ask. I know that I should have a survey and sea trial but I don't want to spend the money if there is something blatant that I am missing because I don't know what to look for. I hope that make more sense than how it sounds. Here is what is in the advertisement.

1973 GB Alaskan 52 - Asking price $39,500. Refitted and upgraded Grand Banks Alaskan 49. 2-cabins, 2-heads layout.

Some spects that were listed:
• Mahongany planking on Yacal frames
• Hard-top above aft deck
• 2-cabin, 2-heads layout
• Onan 60 generator
• Inverter Waeco Perfect power
• Air conditioning system

ENGINES:
Engine 1-Make: Ford Lehman Model: 120
Inboard Year: 1973
Fuel: Diesel
Hours: 6200
Drive Type: Direct

Engine 2-Make: Ford Lehman Model: 120
Type: Inboard
Year: 1973
Fuel: Diesel
Hours: 6280
Drive Type:*Direct Transmission:*
Ratio: 2:1 Ratio: 2:1

In the last three years:
• Wooden structure refitted
• Engine discharge
• All new through hulls, glassed, with new sea-strainers and seacocks*
• New shore power electric wires, and inverter
• Overhauled engines and cooling system
• Extensive woodwork removing any wood rot*
• Raymarine navigation instruments + VHF with AIS installed 2021

According to the advertisement the boat needs exterior painting and some varnish. (Also according to the pictures )

I have looked at the pictures extensively and even blown them up looking for any signs of water intrusion, etc. I know that boat has been up for sale for awhile.

I would like to go see the boat but it is a 7.5 hour drive each way for me.

Any advise at all would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you all for the wonderful reading and I absolutely love 'Trawler Forum'
All my best,
April

 

[Art]

Hi N L - Welcome! Can you provide photos on inside/outside?

50 year age on wood boat my have produced several troubles... and, may not have. All has to do with care taken by previous owners. Hope you truly understand wooden boats

I recommend really good marine and mechanical survey.

Best luck! - Art

 

[amdavis]

What wooden structure was "refitted" ,new thru hulls glassed (?)

 

[BruceK]

If it`s the POP Yachts one, it shows as sold.
I`d be very nervous about a wooden boat that age at that price. The required painting work, as much for preservation and protection as appearance, would exceed the purchase price.
Owning a boat like that is a huge commitment. The level of maintenance required is substantial. The("overhauled") 6000 hr+ hour engines have a long life behind them.
If you are serious, do the drive and inspect. The time and expense spent will be modest in the circumstances. If it`s too much of a commitment, so may be the boat.

 

[Comodave]

Well, first it is an old wooden boat. I would expect it will need extensive work. I would have a survey done by an experienced wooden boat surveyor. Then a mechanical survey done on the Lehmans. But before you proceed in making an offer, find out if you can obtain insurance and a slip in a marina. There are a lot of marinas that will not allow wooden boats to be stored or hauled. And a lot of insurance companies will not write insurance on either wooden boats or boats of that age. When we were looking for our current boat we drove 13.5 hours each way to look at a boat and then 9.5 hours each way to see another one. Neither of which did we buy. That is what it sometimes takes when looking at boats.

 

[CharlieO.]

You can always hire a surveyor to do a pre survey inspection (walkthrough) to decide if the boat is worth pursuing.

There is also a good chance that someone here has already taken a look at it or has some knowledge about it.

Post a link to the ad to get more information and feedback.

Good Luck!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. Several things come to mind reading the information you have provided. As mentioned by Mr. a (post #3), what does "refitted" mean AND there should be NO FRP (glass) used in a wooden hull. One other question is why were the engines "overhauled" with only ~6000 hrs? Lehman's, with average care, should go 10,000hrs+, at least, without any major work.
Please post any pictures or the listing so we can advise further. Thanks.
As also mentioned, 7.5 hours drive is really nothing.


Edit: $35K? Sounds too good to be true and you know what they say...

 

[mvweebles]

Purchase is the cheap part. Here's a picture of a 1982 McQueen built in British Columbia. These ribs are beneath the fuel tanks and were not visible during the survey -they became 'visible' when the boat was hauled and the chines logs crushed. Approximately 15-ribs on each side needed to be sistered. Frankly, the work is a 15-year repair, not a total rebuild which would require removal of all planking and ribs. Very labor intensive work which adds-up at US yard rates in the $100/hr range. I'd guess the boat in the attached pictures will have 400-500 hours in repairs plus materials at $12/board-foot and $3/fastener.

Also, make sure wherever you're located doesn't have biases against wood boats. In California, finding yards that will haul one is getting increasingly difficult. Large wood boats really should be hauled on marine railways which are rare, not travel-lifts (see above). Many marinas want nothing to do with wooden boats.

The net is that buying a $200k GRP boat may be a less expensive ownership experience.

Good luck -

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

I’ll bet you would have $200k into that boat within a couple of years. Then will be trying to sell it for $40k.

 

[Benthic2]

2 rebuilt engines and a new suite of electronics would be worth the asking price of the boat. If everything was legit the boat would have sold very quickly. There is a reason it hasn't sold. If, because of emotional attatchment, you can't just move on, hire a surveyor near the boat to do a 2 hour walk through and report back to you. Paying a surveyor for 2 hours will probably save you the 15 hours of drive time. The only way this makes sense is if you are smarter than all the people that have already looked at this boat and passed.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

You have certainly done your due diligence but your expectations are unreasonable. Three pages of questions on a Fifty year old wooden boat can all be answered with the same answer. "It's a fifty year old wooden boat"

Have a friend or surveyor look it over but go into it with your eyes open. It's a fifty year old wooden boat!

pete

 

[Chuck34]

1. Stay away from old wooden boats. I speak from experience
2. When buying ANY older boats, absolutely, positively, spend the money on a complete pre-purchase survey, including sea trial. My current boat was 17 years old when I bought it and it was/is in very good shape. Between the repairs I asked the seller to make and a renegotiated price, the survey saved me double the amount I spent on the survey.
7-8 years ago, my brother found a very nice boat to buy that looked in very good condition. Serious issues were found during survey that the seller was unwilling to address. My brother walked.

Also, do not buy or offer to buy any boat that you have not personally looked at. If it looks good, offer to buy with sea trial/survey contingencies written into the offer to buy contract.

 

[Iggy]

Personally, I would not own a wooded boat. My uncle had one years ago and I remember what that was like.

Best of luck to you!!

 

[Shrew]

You're paying the owner money to dispose of what they will otherwise have to pay to dispose of themselves.

Slips and haul outs will be challenging. Insurance will be difficult as well.

 

[Chuck34]

Slips and haul outs will be challenging. Insurance will be difficult as well.

This is very important. A lot of marinas won’t allow wooden boats and very few insurance companies will write a policy, at least not an affordable one.

 

[Not_Lost]

Well...Damn. Thank you everyone for all of the information but now I am really, really worried. A couple more questions, many have said that marinas do not like wood boats. Why? What is the reasoning behind insurance companies not wanting to insure them? Age? The possibility of hull damage? I am definitely going to take a big step back from this boat. I have compiled some main questions from the information everyone has given me and I will email the owner. I will definitely have a 2 hour walk through survey before I waste 15 hours driving. I am definitely looking at this with a new perspective. I am going to post some of the pictures as soon as I figure out how. Thank you.

 

[Not_Lost]

Photos

Here are some photos of the boat in question. Thanks to everyone for all of the great advise.

 

[Art]

N L - Good... I'm glad you listened to input

Bout 10 years ago there was a 42' GB woodie estate sale. I went and looked a it. I've much experience form the 50s, 60's 70's with wood boats. Few months later, after no sale, the family tried to give it to me. I said thanks, but... no thanks.

All I can say - is - you'll be better off not getting trapped.

Those photos recent or years ago?

 

[Chuck34]

No question, it is a nice looking boat that could potentially serve you well for a reasonable number of years.
However, the facts of life are, most marinas don't want old wooden boats and finding affordable insurance can be an issue.
If you want to pursue this boat, first, find a marina that will take it and then call some insurance agents to get a ballpark figure to insure. If those 2 can be worked out and you still want to pursue the boat, ABSOLUTELY get a full pre-purchase survey with sea trial. Chances are 99%, if you find insurance, they will insist on a survey and whatever deficiencies are found, the insurance company will also insist they be remedied.
100%...deficiencies will be found.
One of the questions you must ask the seller, when was the last time the bottom was re-fastened

 

[Comodave]

The risks are higher with a wooden boat of sinking due to rot, etc. Also marinas don’t want to deal with them if the owner walks away. Lifting with a travel lift is more risky of the boat becoming crushed, etc. If a plank comes loose the boat can sink suddenly and quickly. There are less and less experienced wooden boat repairmen around. And the list goes on…. And the purchase price on wooden boats makes them look attractive but then the maintenance costs eats some people alive. They get into a big boat on a budget and don’t have the financial depth to do the maintenance and required repairs.

 

[Chuck34]

Just to give you my background…
I bought a 1971, 37’ wood Egg Harbor (which is a well built boat) back in 1998. Spent about $10k in repairs the first year I had it. Sold it in 2002.
Boat went to the bottom sitting in its slip 10 years later.

 

[Art]

Go with a good fiberglass... may cost 2 to 3 times as much to purchase... but will likely save you way more than that in the long run. As well as much less headache! Good Luck!

Does look like a cared for GB in your photos... but again I ask... how old are those photos??

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. NL. IF the pictures ARE recent, it looks way too good to be true for $35K. Still, what has been posted previously still holds. Marina, insurance, GOOD wooden boat craftsman AND deep pockets.
You haven't told us yet but what is your budget and what do you plan to do with any boat you buy?

Perhaps this particular boat is too much boat for your anticipated usage. I'm sure you've read somewhere "buy the biggest boat you can afford" but that's much TOO broad a statement to cover all scenarios.

 

[Art]

Just to give you my background…
I bought a 1971, 37’ wood Egg Harbor (which is a well built boat) back in 1998. Spent about $10k in repairs the first year I had it. Sold it in 2002.
Boat went to the bottom sitting in its slip 10 years later.

Back in the day... 50's 60's 70's ... on LI NY, I worked in boat yards on plenty of woodies. We always has a woodie in our family... I was dad's helper; early grade school on. Loved those 37' Eggs! Sweet cruisers!!

 

[Iggy]

The risks are higher with a wooden boat of sinking due to rot, etc. Also marinas don’t want to deal with them if the owner walks away. Lifting with a travel lift is more risky of the boat becoming crushed, etc. If a plank comes loose the boat can sink suddenly and quickly. There are less and less experienced wooden boat repairmen around. And the list goes on…. And the purchase price on wooden boats makes them look attractive but then the maintenance costs eats some people alive. They get into a big boat on a budget and don’t have the financial depth to do the maintenance and required repairs.

Also, and some one correct me if I am wrong! My Uncle's boat goes back 50 years ago and I hope my memory is right on this.

My Uncle, in the spring would put the boat in the water after being on the hard all winter. The planks are dry so they would shrink. When the boat goes in, water was leaking into the bulge. He needed two or three pumps to keep up with it. In time the planks swelled up and the leaks stopped or slowed down. He also had to put some type of calking between the planks too.

It was a lot of work from what I could remember!

 

[Chuck34]

Back in the day... 50's 60's 70's ... on LI NY, I worked in boat yards on plenty of woodies. We always has a woodie in our family... I was dad's helper; early grade school on. Loved those 37' Eggs! Sweet cruisers!!

25 years ago, when we bought our Egg, there were 7 at our marina. During its day, it was one good looking, well built boat. Mine had twin Chrysler 460’s and would flat out fly when opened up…of course you could hear the gas being sucked up.

 

[Comodave]

Back in the day... 50's 60's 70's ... on LI NY, I worked in boat yards on plenty of woodies. We always has a woodie in our family... I was dad's helper; early grade school on. Loved those 37' Eggs! Sweet cruisers!!

And back then there were craftsmen that knew how to work on woodies, not so much now. Those guys are retired or dead…

 

[mvweebles]

Well...Damn. Thank you everyone for all of the information but now I am really, really worried. A couple more questions, many have said that marinas do not like wood boats. Why? What is the reasoning behind insurance companies not wanting to insure them? Age? The possibility of hull damage? I am definitely going to take a big step back from this boat. I have compiled some main questions from the information everyone has given me and I will email the owner. I will definitely have a 2 hour walk through survey before I waste 15 hours driving. I am definitely looking at this with a new perspective. I am going to post some of the pictures as soon as I figure out how. Thank you.

Maybe ask owner for all surveys he has. Pictures of bottom look interesting. You want as much info as you can get on the below waterline stuff - thru-hulls, pictures of ribs, etc. In pics, looks like she's on a railway cart which is a good thing. Where is this located? Does the yard have knowledge with wood boats, and perhaps experience with this vessel?

The pics of rotted ribs I posted upthread are of a boat equally as beautiful and luxurious as the ones you've posted. With wood, there are more places for damage to hide.

In closing, you really have to evaluate the risk, your tolerance, and your objectives. You really could spend a lot of time with repairs and maintenance. If you enjoy that type of thing, great. But if olan is cheap cruising, youre at risk.

Good luck.

Peter.

 

[danderer]

If you do have this (or any wooden) boat surveyed, I'd suggesting looking long and hard for a surveyor with specific expertise on wooden boats. Much like craftsman who can work on them, surveyors who understand them are becoming a rare breed.

I wouldn't put much value in the opinion on a wooden boat from a surveyor whose experience is mostly with fiberglass..

 

[SoWhat]

Read 'Surveying Wood Hulls' by David Pascoe.
https://www.yachtsurvey.com/Wood.htm