Abandoning sailboat for a Trawler.

[Cubancrisis]

Hello all. I’m new to the Trawler world and am eager to glean the knowledge and experience contained on this Forum. I own an Amel 50 sailing yacht (currently in Montenegro) and am in the market to jump ship to the other side, as they say. Been looking at class A ocean going trawlers and am circling around the Nordhavn and Selene. Somewhere between 50 and 60’. Still have lots of learning to do. I’ll be at the Baltimore Trawler fest this September 2024. Cheers.

 

[Mac2]

Welcome aboard. Robert Beebe’s “voyaging under power” is the trawler bible and a good knowledge base. I like the Selenes but don’t think the 50-60 foot range is designed to cross oceans.

 

[Cubancrisis]

Welcome aboard. Robert Beebe’s “voyaging under power” is the trawler bible and a good knowledge base. I like the Selenes but don’t think the 50-60 foot range is designed to cross oceans.

Thanks, just ordered the book and looking forward to reading it. Could you give me your reasons for why a 50-60' Trawler is not suited to cross oceans? I was going to cross the Atlantic in my Amel 50' last year but changed plans. Of the 100 or so sailboats I'm familiar with which crossed without issue the average size was around 45'. In years past the average size was quite a bit smaller. Are their considerations about crossing with a Trawler different than a sailboat other than mode of primary power and fuel considerations?

 

[Stabi]

Here are some Passage Maker Magazine articles about Selenes that you might find interesting

https://www.passagemaker.com/author/capt-mark-tilden

 

[Bacchus]

Welcome aboard TF.
Your ambitions are beyond ours I'm sure you will find others on TF with applicable experience and some that have made crossings with boats in your target range with appropriate planning.

 

[psneeld]

Sailboat versus power survivability of severe weather has always been a debate when discussing ocean crossing safety.... usually based on how well the boat is designed or modified to survive large breaking seas.

As weather forecasting and underway communication of weather danger has gotten better, many ocean crossers report never really experience "survival weather" because they simply cruise around it.

Not many production power vessels are designed for top tier survivability, but as size goes up, even lesser "designed for survivability" vessels are a more acceptable compromise.

 

[DavidM]

Are their considerations about crossing with a Trawler different than a sailboat other than mode of primary power and fuel considerations?

Yes, absolutely. Many, if not most sailboats can cross oceans as is. Not so with trawlers.

1. Sailboats have low coach roofs so blue water hitting the windows is not a problem. Not so with trawlers. A big slug of blue water would cave in most trawler pilot house windows.

2. Trawlers are much more susceptible to seawater down flow. Both because trawlers have more surface area in the air vents because they produce more hp and because the engine is the only source of power.

3. A related issue is that the angle of vanishing stability is at least 120 degrees and as much as 150 for some sailboats. For most trawlers it is less than 90, although for many Nordhavn’s it is about 120.

When a trawler goes over, it stays over. A sailboat will eventually right itself if it hasn’t taken on too much water.

Most sailboats can be upgraded for blue water passages. Not so for most trawlers.

A sure indicator of a potential blue water trawler is ballast. If it doesn’t have about 10% of its weight in ballast and a displacement hull, it isn’t going to be a safe blue water passagemaker.

The list of trawlers that meet that criteria is pretty small.

David

 

[tiltrider1]

Op was considering Nordhavn and Salene 50 to 60 foot. The Nordhavn 62’ is a very serious ocean crosser. The only thing you need be concerned with the smaller Norhavn’s is if they have the range you need.

I personally do not put Salene in the same class as a Nordhavn. With a Salene I would recommend you do a lot of research on quality and capability of the specific model that interests you.

Lots of sailboat cross oceans but an Amel is at the top of the class. I am assuming your trawler interest is similar.

 

[Cubancrisis]

Yes, absolutely. Many, if not most sailboats can cross oceans as is. Not so with trawlers.

1. Sailboats have low coach roofs so blue water hitting the windows is not a problem. Not so with trawlers. A big slug of blue water would cave in most trawler pilot house windows.

2. Trawlers are much more susceptible to seawater down flow. Both because trawlers have more surface area in the air vents because they produce more hp and because the engine is the only source of power.

3. A related issue is that the angle of vanishing stability is at least 120 degrees and as much as 150 for some sailboats. For most trawlers it is less than 90, although for many Nordhavn’s it is about 120.

When a trawler goes over, it stays over. A sailboat will eventually right itself if it hasn’t taken on too much water.

Most sailboats can be upgraded for blue water passages. Not so for most trawlers.

David

Thank you for your input! Good to see a specific (angle of VS) for why Nordhavn's are touted to be among the better builders of Class A yachts.

 

[Cubancrisis]

Op was considering Nordhavn and Salene 50 to 60 foot. The Nordhavn 62’ is a very serious ocean crosser. The only thing you need be concerned with the smaller Norhavn’s is if they have the range you need.

I personally do not put Salene in the same class as a Nordhavn. With a Salene I would recommend you do a lot of research on quality and capability of the specific model that interests you.

Lots of sailboat cross oceans but an Amel is at the top of the class. I am assuming your trawler interest is similar.

Yes, if data supports one builder over another then the decision is made for me. I was thinking of the 50-60' range because I will not routinely have much crew with me. I was able to single hand my Amel and often times had one "crew" on board with zero experience. I liked the Amel 60 but it was just a bit more boat than I'd comfortably handle. Not to mention the exponential price tag (both initial purchase and upkeep; another topic). I'm figuring a 50'+ Nordhavn with bow and stern thrusters plus its displacement would handle easier than my Amel.

 

[tiltrider1]

Maybe Retrever will see this thread. He purchased a Nordhavn 50 from my neighbors and has done some extensive cruising. He could give you his opinion on the range of a Nordhavn 50. I am not at all concerned with its capabilities.

 

[DavidM]

To support my view that most trawlers are not blue water capable, take a look at this pic of a downeaster after facing heavy breaking seas coming in at Oregon Inlet in NC. Downeasters are pretty tough boats, but not tough enough to take these conditions.

David

 

[Cubancrisis]

To support my view that most trawlers are not blue water capable, take a look at this pic of a downeaster after facing heavy breaking seas coming in at Oregon Inlet in NC. Downeasters are pretty tough boats, but not tough enough to take these conditions.

DavidView attachment 157185

Ouch! I wonder what the impact of boarding seas would be if the glass on the pilot house was leaning forward. Would the chances to stove-in the glass be reduced. Another consideration.

 

[tiltrider1]

First I want to point out that the polycarbonate did not fail. There was a failure in the structure. The structure is wood and it is unknown if there was wood rot issues. I find this picture tells us nothing without further context. Polycarbonate should be the weak link, not the structure.

 

[Iggy]

Welcome!

 

[psneeld]

True about structure versus the window damage. Though even normal without rot damaged cabins fail if the windows dont give first.

Doubt forward slants would have mattered, but just a guess on average conditions. Angle of wave may have made a difference between foreward/rear slant.

 

[mvweebles]

I've heard it said that at any given time there is a Nordhavn circumnavigating. I believe the first to do so was a N46 over 35-years ago. Around 2000, Nordhavn sponsored a marketing gig that sent a N40 round the world at fast pace.

A personal favorite of mine is the Nordhavn 57. Fast boat - easily does 200 nm/days and burns around 6 gph so relatively economical. It's a comfortable boat for a couple plus guests. Under $1m USD. Here's one - looks a bit tired but you get the idea. https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1999-nordhavn-57-8978624/.

Another interesting approach to long distance power is Dashew's transition to the FPB lineup. Not many out there, but they are fast and impressive. Here's an interesting YouTube showcasing the FPB in difficult conditions.

FPB Motor Yachts For Sale - Berthon International

www.berthoninternational.com

There are a number of other circumnavigatable boats out there - Delta, Northern Marine, etc. Size matters. Achilles Heel of any power boat is downflooding in very heavy weather. EDIT - might also consider a Diesel Duck. Notfor everyone - a bit of a submarine, but an option. Diesel Duck 46-2 - Capital City Yachts

I know it's obvious, but I'll say it anyway - The more accurately you are in specifying your use-case, the more satisfied you'll be with the overall experience. If you plan to cross oceans, really bumps you into a different league. If you plan to just do hardcore coastal passagemaking, may cross the Atlantic once or twice and will have the time to wait for favorable season, you may not want the big-ass Nordhavn.

One plus I'll mention on Nordhavn - like Amel, it's a well respected boat that is easier to sell when the time comes. Although expensive getting into one, resale is decent so overall cost of ownership isn't as bad as it might be.

Best success -

Peter

(BTW - if I were a sailor, would be an Amel - very thoughtfully put together. Honestly, there are no power equivilents - even the Nordhavns are over-complicated and not really the same philosophy as Amel).

 

[Mac2]

Thanks, just ordered the book and looking forward to reading it. Could you give me your reasons for why a 50-60' Trawler is not suited to cross oceans? I was going to cross the Atlantic in my Amel 50' last year but changed plans. Of the 100 or so sailboats I'm familiar with which crossed without issue the average size was around 45'. In years past the average size was quite a bit smaller. Are their considerations about crossing with a Trawler different than a sailboat other than mode of primary power and fuel considerations?

Most of your questions were answered above. The one thing I would add is that you will be able to handle a larger trawler in comparison to a sailboat (minus trying to fit in tight marinas). I have found that handling my current 65 foot trawler (after getting used to it’s movement) is exponentially easier than my previous 36 foot trawler.

 

[sledge]

Selene does make some nice boats; those and Nordys and Kadey Krogan are all full displacement trawlers. They often have some kind of stabilization. I'd say you're on the right track visiting TrawlerFest events, its a great way to see several different types of trawlers!

 

[tiltrider1]

There are a lot of boats capable of crossing oceans. Just look at what Richard did with his KK42. That said, OP is giving up an Amel. You wouldn’t recommend a Defever to some one giving up a Delta or a Northern Marine.

 

[Mambo42]

Do you want to buy a new boat or are you looking for a used boat ?
If a new one is an option, the Nordhavn 51 could be an option. It is getting build in Turkey, so can be bought tax free and currently the first owner of a Nordhavn 51 is taking his boat from Turkey to New Zealand. He has a youtube channel called Awanui NZ, where you can follow the progress of the journey. They plan to make trip in in a period of 5 years, so not rushing anything.

Awanui NZ

Follow the build of Nordhavn’s first N51 named Awanui NZ purchased by Mark and Fiona Rammell from Wellington New Zealand. Awanui NZ was launched in Istanbul, Turkey in February 2024. Join Mark and Fiona on their adventure across the oceans back to New Zealand. Learn all there is to know about...

www.youtube.com

If you are looking for a used boat, this one just came on the market.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1986-defever-53-9432642/

 

[Cubancrisis]

Do you want to buy a new boat or are you looking for a used boat ?
If a new one is an option, the Nordhavn 51 could be an option. It is getting build in Turkey, so can be bought tax free and currently the first owner of a Nordhavn 51 is taking his boat from Turkey to New Zealand. He has a youtube channel called Awanui NZ, where you can follow the progress of the journey. They plan to make trip in in a period of 5 years, so not rushing anything.

Awanui NZ

Follow the build of Nordhavn’s first N51 named Awanui NZ purchased by Mark and Fiona Rammell from Wellington New Zealand. Awanui NZ was launched in Istanbul, Turkey in February 2024. Join Mark and Fiona on their adventure across the oceans back to New Zealand. Learn all there is to know about...

www.youtube.com

If you are looking for a used boat, this one just came on the market.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1986-defever-53-9432642/

I will probably buy a used boat. The last new boat I purchased (Amel 50) took me several years to have her built and specify many of her options. It will take me some time to understand the trawler market before I can make a decision. Once I do I'm not inclined to wait 2-3 years to take delivery of my boat.

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard.

 

[dolcevita37]

Welcome to the "dark side". Haha

 

[Comodave]

Welcome to the "dark side". Haha

Actually the light side since most trawlers and power boats are much brighter than sailboats…

 

[MichaelB1969]

You hear about many Nordhavn crossing oceans. Not sure I recall hearing about any Selene that have done so, although I'd imagine it's happened. In any case, the Nordhavn's are clearly purpose-built to do so. No knock on Selene's, as they are nice trawlers and I'd definitely consider buying one. However, if I was going to cross an ocean, I would be looking at (depending on budget) Nordhavn, Krogen, Bering, Arksen, and probably some others that I am forgetting.

A big advantage of going with a Nordhavn and all the ocean crossings they've done is that it allows them to continually tweak the construction and systems based on real-world learnings. Also, they have a strong community and, from what I've seen, they have a strong support network. So if something goes wrong with the boat, you'll have plenty of resources to tap into in order to fix it, troubleshoot, etc.

The Amel 50 is a beautiful boat. Curious, why are you selling it?

 

[TBW]

Consider Nova Scotia and N. West built fishing boats. Built and used by fishermen who routinely go out in bad weather. And simple. Production boats have many bells and whistles to shine and fix. Go to Stuart when KK offloads their boats from China - and how long it takes to finish what they get. In China, you get what you supervise - every minute.
If you are going to cross an ocean you need a big boat, lots of spares and the ability to fix it on the fly.

 

[Tacklow]

Hello all. I’m new to the Trawler world and am eager to glean the knowledge and experience contained on this Forum. I own an Amel 50 sailing yacht (currently in Montenegro) and am in the market to jump ship to the other side, as they say. Been looking at class A ocean going trawlers and am circling around the Nordhavn and Selene. Somewhere between 50 and 60’. Still have lots of learning to do. I’ll be at the Baltimore Trawler fest this September 2024. Cheers.

After owning over 25 sailing vessels and logging well over 100,000 miles (mostly offshore) my wife and I bought our first trawler a year ago. It helped that it had been to Hawaii and back to Victoria, BC, employing paravane stabilizers (like commercial fishing vessels). That said, when crossing the Georgia Strait a few weeks ago in nasty weather, the motion in the trawler did not compare to a well found sailboat of the same size. Quite uncomfortable!

 

[Sababa]

Thoughts on the Elling E6 for this use case? Class A, self righting, cheaper than a Nordhavn of comparable size.

Elling - E6 - Motor Yacht | Elling yachting

The Elling E6 is build for long range.

www.ellingyachting.com

 

[ceherro]

Hello all. I’m new to the Trawler world and am eager to glean the knowledge and experience contained on this Forum. I own an Amel 50 sailing yacht (currently in Montenegro) and am in the market to jump ship to the other side, as they say. Been looking at class A ocean going trawlers and am circling around the Nordhavn and Selene. Somewhere between 50 and 60’. Still have lots of learning to do. I’ll be at the Baltimore Trawler fest this September 2024. Cheers.

Hi... Consider adding Kadey Krogen Trawlers to your research. They are strongly built and have long range capabilities.