2009 Mainship 34 - replacing upholstery on ceiling salon

[Bailey62]

I am considering the purchase of a 2009 Mainship 34 trawler. There is a sticky substance on the ceiling upholstery in the salon. I am told efforts to remove the substance have been unsuccessful and that it may in fact be due to a "migration of the plasticizers out of the vinyl". Has anyone tried having the upholstery replaced on the ceiling of a trawler?

 

[SIBERNUT]

Is it vinyl or monkey fur ? I have done both

 

[Frosty]

I can't speak to replacing the overhead, but I am familiar with the sticky vinyl due to migrating plasticizers. I haven't found anything that really gets rid of it (if you do, please post!).

Not saying you should do this on a boat, but I have painted such vinyl in a (land) camper. Sounds nuts, but with a suitable primer it does work (10 years and counting, on land). That was a surface without a lot of pleats etc. though.

Maybe an option if re-upholstering is off the table for some reason.

My preference on boats is some sort of hard surface headliner, preferably with removable panels (to get at the underside of installed hardware fasteners).

 

[Bailey62]

Is it vinyl or monkey fur ? I have done both

I'm afraid I am not sure. I don't know what monkey fur is.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Fuzzy stuff glued to inside of hull.
Glued vs stapled vinyl

 

[Bailey62]

I believe it is stapled not glued.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Can you post a piic ? Where are you ?

 

[Comodave]

Formula boats from the late 90s had a known problem with headliner dropping. Don’t know if it was bad glue or bad headliner. Formula came out with a huge PDF file with instructions on how to replace it. My current boat had that problem but fortunately the PO fixed it just before trying to sell it. They were still working on it when I first looked at the boat. Apparently I was the only one that could see past the work being done so the boat didn’t sell before we got our last boat sold. The company doing the work seriously underestimated how long it would take to do the repair. They thought a couple of weeks and it took about 2.5 months. Looks great now.

 

[Bailey62]

Can you post a piic ? Where are you ?

Is it vinyl or monkey fur ? I have done both

The boat is currently in Connecticut.

 

[Frosty]

Sure looks like vinyl. Also "monkey fur" would not get that plasticizer stickiness.

 

[BruceK]

I am considering the purchase of a 2009 Mainship 34 trawler. There is a sticky substance on the ceiling upholstery in the salon. I am told efforts to remove the substance have been unsuccessful and that it may in fact be due to a "migration of the plasticizers out of the vinyl". Has anyone tried having the upholstery replaced on the ceiling of a trawler?

I have tried getting mine replaced, with no success. Trimmers are not keen, I think because it`s a messy job. Panels to take down, timber fittings to remove, wiring to avoid, time consuming panel by panel vinyl replacement, not a simple straightforward job. Usually the panels are held by Velcro.
Good luck, but if you buy it, you may live with it as is for a while. Just don`t look up. When you find a taker, it won`t be cheap, so factor in some $$$.

 

[Comodave]

I think the cost to replace the headliner in our 41’ was about $20K. Make sure you factor the cost into the price you offer.

 

[Bailey62]

I think the cost to replace the headliner in our 41’ was about $20K. Make sure you factor the cost into the price you offer.

I was afraid of this! I see that you are in Michigan . . . do you recall who did the work?

 

[SIBERNUT]

Cant tell how its installed by the pic.
But a "pulled" headliner would have seams athwartships every 3ft or so

 

[Bacchus]

Our 2008 MS 34HT has vinyl held it place by strips designed for this use. I'd be surprised if MS changed it in 2009.
Steve Cyrs Stella Blue website is a wealth of knowledge for MS owners and was the inspiration for me to start my Bacchus website.
Here are the links to his home page and the headliner article

Stella Blue Home

Stella Blue is a Mainship 400 trawler. This site is devoted to information relating to this model trawler.

scyr.org

Headliner Reinstallation

Stella Blue is a Mainship 400 trawler. This site is devoted to information relating to this model trawler.

scyr.org

I haven't done anything with mine but guess it could be a DIY replacement but is not an easy one to get factory looking results unless you are patient and do some practicing.

 

[Bacchus]

I believe it is stapled not glued.

If it's stapled it will have some sort of strips screwed? In place to hide the staples. I'd bet it's inserted into the plastic track referenced above.

 

[Bailey62]

If it's stapled it will have some sort of strips screwed? In place to hide the staples. I'd bet it's inserted into the plastic track referenced above.

Dear Bacchus,
You've been a wealth of knowledge and extremely helpful. I am going to approach the purchase of this Mainship very cautiously. I am really disappointed because other than this issue it is a spectacular vessel. The broker is trying to tell me that it is a used boat and I shouldn't expect it to be perfect, but I don't think I can live with it the way it is and I don't want to overpay for a boat that I would have difficulty selling down the road if I can't find someone to do a good reupholstery job.

 

[Bacchus]

@Bailey62...
It's certainly a good idea to approach any boat purchase cautiously and with eyes wide open. I would guess with some digging you could find someone to tackle the replacement... possibly a boat canvas / upholstery outfit or maybe someone that does auto interiors. They may not be familiar with the track system but showing them the Stella Blue article could help. If the boat otherwise checks your boxes I'd consider getting / making an estimate and make an offer based on correcting the deficiency... others will likely feel similarly and make offers accordingly. Finding boats of that vintage without anything needing work are by far the exceptions.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Bailey62]

@Bailey62...
It's certainly a good idea to approach any boat purchase cautiously and with eyes wide open. I would guess with some digging you could find someone to tackle the replacement... possibly a boat canvas / upholstery outfit or maybe someone that does auto interiors. They may not be familiar with the track system but showing them the Stella Blue article could help. If the boat otherwise checks your boxes I'd consider getting / making an estimate and make an offer based on correcting the deficiency... others will likely feel similarly and make offers accordingly. Finding boats of that vintage without anything needing work are by far the exceptions.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Thank You! Just one additional question....do you find it odd that vinyl that is not exposed to sun/water would experience this type of plasticide migration??

 

[Frosty]

Thank You! Just one additional question....do you find it odd that vinyl that is not exposed to sun/water would experience this type of plasticide migration??

I'm not Bacchus but no, definitely not odd. The campers I'm referring to have vinyl walls (vinyl with foam bonded to the backside) inside and pretty small windows (so clearly never exposed to much sun and no salt/water) and they get sticky as they age. So far I have not read of any "de-stickying" process that works, tho that doesn't mean there isn't one. Painting works surprisingly well, looks pretty good, and lasts -- tho it sounds odd, I know.

That said, painting might not work so well when you have a tucks and pleats sort of thing going.

But mainly just know that no, it happens all the time "inside" and far away from sun and salt. Heat might speed it up a little).

 

[Comodave]

I was afraid of this! I see that you are in Michigan . . . do you recall who did the work?

The work was done by the PO so I don’t know what the name of the company was. I spoke to the workers a couple of times and showed them what I wanted as to how to finish the job. They did it the way I wanted so I was happy.

 

[Nordlund Xpress]

Many boats have this problem as the foam backing on the vinyl deteriorates and the sagging begins…we redid our pilot house ceiling and helm, costing about $6600 (57’ boat). Came out great - and different material used. We found that upholstery shops that work on boats (in our case Jeddy’s in Dana Point, CA) are very familiar with this work.

 

[Bacchus]

Thank You! Just one additional question....do you find it odd that vinyl that is not exposed to sun/water would experience this type of plasticide migration??

Not really unheard of and I have no idea why some detiorate and others don't. It's possible prior cleaning solutions could affect it. We have never used anything other than a damp cloth ( AFAIK but can't speak for my admiral?) I have seen appliances, cell phone covers etc that get sticky and never found a way to remedy it. My VHF mic cord self destructed and was sticky but I suspect poor quality. Raymarine hid behind their warranty limit while ICON with similar issues waived any limits and made good long after they had to. I'll avoid Raymarine as long as Im a boater as they weren't in the leady helpful with parts... only offered to " evaluate" it for a fee if I sent it in. It turned out the cord had plugs both ends and an EZ DIY fix... but I. Way off topic...

 

[Newtrawlerowner]

I am considering the purchase of a 2009 Mainship 34 trawler. There is a sticky substance on the ceiling upholstery in the salon. I am told efforts to remove the substance have been unsuccessful and that it may in fact be due to a "migration of the plasticizers out of the vinyl". Has anyone tried having the upholstery replaced on the ceiling of a trawler?

The sticky substance on your Mainship is the vinyl starting to deteriorate. No you cant really remove the sticky stuff. I have read where some people have tried painting it.
I replaced all of the vinyl (main salon headliner, forward and guest cabin walls and headliner) in my 2003 MS 400. If you search my posts I included a few pictures of the process. I don't know how the headliner in a 2009 MS 34 is mounted. Some use individual panels that can be easily removed and recovered. On my boat there is a frame that has a series of channels that the vinyl is pushed into. Not that difficult. The material runs for and aft and overall length in the main salon was 15'. I made the mistake of cutting my material to 15'6" and it was too short. I also installed flush mount 12 volt LED puck lights prior to installing the vinyl. I had to make and mount panels for the lights but not that difficult. Just very time consuming. I was told by several upholstery shops that they would never do the job I did as it was too difficult.

 

[rgano]

I believe from what I see in the photo that the overhead vinyl on the 34T in question is installed like the overhead in my MS 30 Pilot II, vinyl pushed into a narrow gap in a molded plastic strip. I have helped a fellow 30 Pilot owner rip down and replace this material, and as an inveterate DIYer, I have to say it was very hard work. The job came out quite well thanks to the upper body strength of the owner.

I would NEVER pay the exorbitant price some of these "professionals" want to charge for this work - it's just obscene to me.

If you like the boat and are not afraid of a little work, buy it but don't try to replace the overhead with the same system. Rather, pull it all down and replace it with panels you pattern and make out of thin material like Formica or other stuff handyman stores sell covered in the vinyl material of your choice. Use narrow wooden strips nicely varnished and screwed into place over the intersections of the panels to hold all in place.

If you are not handy and want a "perfect" boat, you are sorta stuck buying new with all the warranties.

The advantage in my DIY suggestion is that you can now remove a panel to conduct repairs of lighting wiring and other stuff that runs through the overhead.

Another advantage is you now have the opportunity to stuff as much closed cell foam insulation panel material up there as will fit for a huge saving in AC bills because there is likely NONE up there now.

Photo is of the new overhead in just one of the three cabins I did on my last boat following the below schedule - one man, no assistance.

In the case of a 34T doing it yourself. Take a day to remove the interfering woodwork and pull all that stuff down and begin the insulation process of cutting the foam panels and gluing them in place. Day two to finish insulation and day three to make some new panel patterns and probably install any woodwork to back up the seams between the new panels. Day four and maybe five to affix the material to the panels with a glue of choice and to secure in place with the new wooden strips.

Save thousands of $ for fuel and other more enjoyable stuff.

 

[RABourne]

We chose to remove all of the ceiling and, ss suggested above, add panels with varnished wood Teak strips to cover the seams. Hopefully they'll never need to come down, but if they do it should be much easier than replacing the original ceiling on our 1986 Fairchild Scout express.

 

[TBill36]

It shouldn't be any harder than when they built the boat. There has to be boat builders that outsource to some local company that does it. Or maybe they let their guy do jobs on the side. If they are paying $20K I would think they wouldn't be in business very long. At $125/hr that would be 160 hrs - sounds excessive. Even at today's prices there couldn't be more than a few $K in material.
On the other hand use that number for negotiating. I've also seen some nice factory non-vinyl ceilings. Tongue and groove that may be easier to find someone capable.

 

[BruceK]

....do you find it odd that vinyl that is not exposed to sun/water would experience this type of plasticide migration??

An experienced senior shipwright opined the degradation is due to diesel exhaust entering the cabin via open rear doors. The so called "station wagon' effect.

 

[rgano]

I think it's a combination of age and hydrocarbons in the air. Some formulations of "plastic" can handle decades in the engine room without this degradation while others should never see the inside of a boat.

 

[Frosty]

It can't just be that (diesel fumes) though, since it affects the vinyl wall covering of many camper trailers (no engine at all).