From Liveaboard Motor Sailor To PNW Trawler

[Changes]

After 35 years of working and living aboard yachts and ships, mostly in the Tropics, we will be selling our own live aboard 62 ft steel motor sailor StarGazer in Asia and moving back to my home waters of British Columbia and SE Alaska. (Hopefully if borders open in 2022).

Plan is to purchase a live aboard trawler based on the advice of experienced trawler owners, who have lived aboard year-round in the PNW and SE Alaska.

I am too new to the Trawler market to know which used trawler has good bones and solid engineering, or which characteristics suit the cold climate and meet our design priorities and budget, so any comments added to my list below, that better defines our shopping list and options, is greatly appreciated!

Budget for Used Trawler: USD300-350k with $50k additional for upgrades

Length: As a liveaboard for two, should be comfortable and self-contained, so not intimidated by larger size, but not a project boat. One guest cabin is enough. Guessing 45-55 ft.

Hull Form: Displacement with dry entry, rounded belly and barge like stern for ‘at anchor’ stability

Hull/House Material: I Like Steel Construction but in colder climates is that a liability with condensation? Is Fiberglass the preferred choice?

Maintenance: I do all my own, so not into Teak Decks or exterior varnish. Prefer painting every 5 years with Awlgrip to gel coat polishing… More a rugged boat type than yachty, so tough overbuilt systems with a KISS attitude and access space to repair and carry ample spares.

Main Engines (One or Two??) (maybe this is just my sailboat mindset on most of their engine rooms) I hate cramped Machinery spaces so would rather have one reliable M.Eng. easy to maintain than two squashed together. Economic to run at 7-8 knots. If single screw, then tunnel thruster is enough

Layout: Really haven’t toured on any to be better defined, but definitely like a stern patio/fishing cockpit, with steps going up and also private entrance into a large aft Owner’s cabin seems nice. General open plan Salon and Galley with easy steps to Pilothouse. Enclosed Flybridge has comfortable access from inside and out. Ergonomics and use of space as a liveaboard has a higher priority than style,….. So basically Form follows Function. Would love to get links to examples that liveaboards really liked!

Stabilization: I am ok with Paravanes as we are mostly inside cruising with short open sea voyages around the main Capes and to the bigger Islands all the way to Aleutians.

Heat and Insulation: Probably my biggest concern, so any notes most welcome. Have studied the ITR system for StarGazer. Seems to be dependable

Off Grid: We don’t intend to tie up other than for provisions. My present boat has 1800W Solar, 5Kw Inverter, 10kw Northern Lights Gen, 24v House Bank at 780AH and all large loads like R/O Water maker are DC Powered. Inverter is mostly for Induction Galley and domestic electronics. In the Tropics we are at 100% SOC by 14:00 and Gen is more for AirCons or rainy day Charging. A switch to Lithium and more solar is part of the upgrade budget

Tender: You are often limited by the size and range of your tender, so we want something that can handle beaching over rocks, barnacles and Oyster shells for daily foraging, seaworthy and dependable… Is their a better alternative to a RIB, for the PNW?

EXAMPLES: Based on my Trawler newbies brief above, any examples of what you think I should be looking at, (even if not for sale) would be a great start to my research

Thanks to all

 

[bligh]

Hi. I read your previous thread. You have an amazing boat. I would think it is well suited to the Canadian coast other than some insulation. If you are a liveaboard, some strategically located dehumidifiers would be quite helpful and keep your bilges dry. A hearty hydronic system is likely the best think for a retrofit and is pretty easy on fuel and power.. I'm thinking most of your cruising would be in the summer months for which your boat would be all set. If your AC units are old, you could consider exchanging them for ac/heat units for a backup.

As for trawlers in your price range, consider a Defever, Tollycraft, Kady Krogen, Seahorse (steel), or any other boat you see advertised in those areas. I would think a Meridian or Bayliner would also suit you well if it were well outfitted.

Unfortunately I think you will find few boats in the 45-55 ft range with actual insulation them that are set up for a cold water liveaboard in mind. But you will find ones with good heating systems and maybe even a wood or pellet stove if you look long enough.

I'll be interested to see where your search takes you.

 

[mvweebles]

Welcome to TF.

Steel is not nearly as common in the US as in Europe, so fiberglass may give you the most options. That said, the Diesel Ducks built by Seahorse Marine in China are steel trawlers and may catch your fancy. This 55 foot DD is located in Malaysia so sort of in your neck of the woods. It's listed at $595k so outside your price range, but something to at least look at.

I have to ask - have you considered shipping your boat? Sounds like it's nicely setup to your liking, and you're considering spending another $50k on a replacement boat - maybe use that for shipping your current boat? Especially if your boat is a one-off, would wonder how long it would take to sell.

Peter

 

[Changes]

Thanks bligh, I will look at those models and give some feedback.

In 2000, when the pandemic had first begun, I had been well on my way to preparing StarGazer for a voyage to the PNW via Japan and the Aleutians.

I’ve actually made that trip before, once on a Cheoy Lee 66 LRMY and other crossings more direct on Super yachts, so understand the seasonal and logistical realities.

The ITR Chinook Heater installation was quoted on, my Bimini Solar Panel modified for full width lightweight enclosure, new Furuno electronics and an Excel #13 anchor to replace my aging CQR. Mast and standing rigging completely checked for any flaws. Sails are like new. Engine Room completely refitted and re-wired for new Water maker and Sound insulation. Main Engine and 10kw N Lights Gen all up to spec and a new Fuel polishing system installed

But we all never expected this lockdown to go on so long or still quite understand the changes it will make to our world, so I am approaching this from a flexible perspective.

1 First Fly to Canada with my Filipino partner of many years to see if she is comfortable with liveaboard in cold climates and find out if she could see herself staying in Canada permanently as a legal immigrant, when I pass away. (I’m Canadian with great siblings in Vancouver and Edmonton)

2 If yes, assess the trawler market to compare with the benefits of my well proven Pilot house motor sailor, StarGazer.
A coastal trawler geared towards high lookout visibility for debris, lower working fishing cockpit and the added space and comfort, a wider power boat has over a sleek energy efficient sail boat.
StarGazer is perfect for the tropics and uncharted areas where her heavy keel provides reassurance, but her high stern, makes access difficult in winter clothes, or landing a salmon. As the knees start to ache, ergonomics becomes more important.

3. I already have a buyer for SG in Asia, but if what I see available next year in Washington or BC doesn’t attract me, then consider bringing her to PNW, as an interim liveaboard solution, if I felt SG’s market value would be appreciated on the West Coast.

Lots of unknowns and variables now so I will just keep asking you guys for feedback
...One step at a time !

 

[mvweebles]

FYI - in North America, San Francisco north is the best market for pilothouse boats. The long clipper-bow/sprit on Star Gazer may be a turn-off due to slip fees. But the boat would be immensely appropriate for the PNW.

Good luck and thanks for sharing. Interesting to see how a knowledgeable owner advances through the decision tree of cruising.

Peter

 

[Changes]

Hi Peter, I know the Diesel Ducks very well as most of the new owners who took delivery in Hong Kong would spend about a year in Subic on my dock at SBYC, getting warranty issues taken care of. Have cruised on them quite a bit showing new friends and boaters around the Philippines, but not being of Corten Steel, saw the rust develop quickly on the inside.
Agree Fiberglass is probably the best material and I just need to know which models have an osmosis reputation.

On the shipping aspect, I do need to get a quote on costs from say Asia to PNW and if reasonable, that is a possibility vs wear and tear on SG and myself!

 

[mvweebles]

There are also a few Dutch-built steel Lowlands in the US, but I believe they are also built of plain/mild steel too, so similar issues as DDs (though the Dutch have a great reputation for good construction methods and design).

As far as production displacement trawlers, your choices are limited

Willard - too small (40-foot is biggest), and while there have been no known structural issues, they had blister issues for many of the years. Some also have cored decks, which I consider a demerit

Kadey Krogan. Definitely within your size range and likely within your budget. Some have cored decks. The ones that are stabilized are mostly Naiads vs Paravanes.

Defever - most are not displacement hulls. The ones that are displacement will almost invariably have twins. Defever 49, 44, and 44+5 are displacement hulls. I don't believe these were cored-hulls, but not positive. They frequently have Naiads - I don't recall ever seeing one with paravans

Nordhavn - an obvious choice. The N46 would be within your budget, and is frequently equipped with Paravanes. Solid boat.

Here is an example of a one-off I would think you'd be more likely to find. This one has Naiads, but boats like these are more frequently equipped with paravans.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/durbeck-48-north-sea-trawler-3255746/

Good luck -

Peter

 

[rsn48]

Is their a better alternative to a RIB, for the PNW?


Not really. You want an aluminum bottom rather than glass. Think barnacles.

 

[Changes]

Out of curiosity , I got some quotes to get StarGazer from Asia to Canada.

Budget probably $75k

Our recommended*route for transport would be to load*

+++++++
via Kaohsiung TW*
Offloading via Victoria BC
Freight:* 61000 USD
Schedule: 15/23 May 2021

Including off
·*******seafreight, loading ex water at origin, lashing, securing, cradle for hire, loadmaster attendance, divers,**discharge ex water at destination,
*
excluding off
·*******All Cargo Risk Marine Insurance Policy will be 0.25% of the yacht’s value for premium with Lloyds
·*******any customs clearance (we can refer brokers for customs on each end – usually 200.00-400.00 USD each side)
·*******client to arrange delivery of yacht alongside transport vessel at origin and to pick up alongside transport vessel at destination
+++++++

I will post a cost/time comparison of sailing her on her own bottom

 

[MRRiley]

I personally, would be quite interested to see the results of your calculations. Not that it's anything I'll be planning in the future, rather idle curiosity. I'm enjoying hearing the thought process and considerations of a move of this magnitude.

Out of curiosity , I got some quotes to get StarGazer from Asia to Canada.

Budget probably $75k

Our recommended*route for transport would be to load*

+++++++
via Kaohsiung TW*
Offloading via Victoria BC
Freight:* 61000 USD
Schedule: 15/23 May 2021

Including off
·*******seafreight, loading ex water at origin, lashing, securing, cradle for hire, loadmaster attendance, divers,**discharge ex water at destination,
*
excluding off
·*******All Cargo Risk Marine Insurance Policy will be 0.25% of the yacht’s value for premium with Lloyds
·*******any customs clearance (we can refer brokers for customs on each end – usually 200.00-400.00 USD each side)
·*******client to arrange delivery of yacht alongside transport vessel at origin and to pick up alongside transport vessel at destination
+++++++

I will post a cost/time comparison of sailing her on her own bottom

 

[Changes]

If I decided to keep my motor sailor, Sailing StarGazer from Subic Bay to Canada would begin in early April 2023 during the transition period from NE Monsoon to SW.

Delivery Option 1: Direct to Dutch Hbr.
4100nm + 15% seaway =4715nm /144 per day = 33 days non stop

Delivery Option 2: Yokohama to Victoria, Depart May
4200nm+20% seaway. Normally first half is Rhumb Line, then Great Circle depending on weather 45 days.
This option gives you the best “weather dodging options” which I have done twice before

Cruising Option: Involves an open schedule with the probability that we would overwinter in Japan, which has wonderful cruising attractions. Then the plan would be to arrive in Dutch early June 2024 for a slow southbound trip towards Vancouver.

The Delivery options are work, with odds of getting heavy weather along the way
The $75k freight budget would buy me new heater, new life raft and cover delivery consumables costs.

The Cruising option is more fun, but I’ve done sailing trips to Japan before, so more attractive if the rest of our 4 person crew would be really into it!

These are the route stops we would do on the cruising option, with maybe a side trip to S Korea.

Please to hear from friends with trawlers in PNW that their insulation is worse than mine and stress having a humidifier in the bilge. They say it does get a bit cold at times, but I’m sure their cold threshold if far stronger than this wimpy tropical expat.

Looking hard for suitable Trawlers, so please keep your recommendations coming in.

 

[socalrider]

The owner of this vessel is on TF I believe. I didn't review 100% of your requirements but it's what I thought of.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1984/lowland-471-long-range-trawler-3734906/

What a gorgeous vessel you have though...

 

[Changes]

The owner of this vessel is on TF I believe. I didn't review 100% of your requirements but it's what I thought of.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1984/lowland-471-long-range-trawler-3734906/

What a gorgeous vessel you have though...

Thanks, lovely traditional design, but Im looking more for lower aft fishing cockpit, Flybridge viz for deadheads and a more social and generous Owner's cabin.
Selfishly geared towards 2 liveaboards [emoji5]
Prefer painted decks and no outside teak.

 

[BruceK]

Changes, a good choice of anchor. Almost bigger than your partner.
There is a Filipino community in Vancouver, they seem to cope with the weather, but that`s on land. Vancouver Isl. might be warmer.

 

[rsn48]

The best weather in Canada just about is Victoria, significantly less rain than Vancouver or Seattle. Its a great smaller city that almost feels like a town. And by the way, it isn't the rain that is a negative as much as it is the amount of grey heavy clouds that can hang around for week or so that eventually gets to you. A lot more grey in Vancouver and Seattle than Victoria.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

There are also a few Dutch-built steel Lowlands in the US, but I believe they are also built of plain/mild steel too, so similar issues as DDs (though the Dutch have a great reputation for good construction methods and design).

As far as production displacement trawlers, your choices are limited

Willard - too small (40-foot is biggest), and while there have been no known structural issues, they had blister issues for many of the years. Some also have cored decks, which I consider a demerit

Kadey Krogan. Definitely within your size range and likely within your budget. Some have cored decks. The ones that are stabilized are mostly Naiads vs Paravanes.

Defever - most are not displacement hulls. The ones that are displacement will almost invariably have twins. Defever 49, 44, and 44+5 are displacement hulls. I don't believe these were cored-hulls, but not positive. They frequently have Naiads - I don't recall ever seeing one with paravanes

Nordhavn - an obvious choice. The N46 would be within your budget, and is frequently equipped with Paravanes. Solid boat.

Here is an example of a one-off I would think you'd be more likely to find. This one has Naiads, but boats like these are more frequently equipped with paravans.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/durbeck-48-north-sea-trawler-3255746/

Good luck -

Peter

Defever 48 too. Has small twins and three staterooms. Solid displacement hull. Some other nice features like a sea chest instead of thru hulls. Good luck finding one in this market.

There was a DF 48 for sale on here a couple three or four years ago with paravanes. Seemed really nice.

 

[socalrider]

Defever 48 too. Has small twins and three staterooms. Solid hull. Good luck finding one in this market.

No kidding. There are perhaps a dozen single engine displacement yachts on the market right now in your size and price range on the west coast, max. I'd be surprised if more than one or two are good buying opportunities. Maybe this Nordie 46?

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1998/nordhavn-46-3826561/

 

[Zoar]

45 to 55 foot length with only one engine is an oddball.

 

[ghost]

Star Gazer is beautiful. Reading your description sounds a LOT more like 55-65ft min than 45-55.

migrant has been fir sale for a LONG time, but maybe you should be the one to bring her around to the West coast.

https://www.ecys.com/boat/1967/cammenga/north-sea-trawler/1451/

 

[Changes]

45 to 55 foot length with only one engine is an oddball.

I am also open to twin engines as long as they have allowed enough space for maintenance .
Started viewing Jim and Rosie's videos on Cruising Ventures.

That cheoy lee, is more what im looking for in design and ergonomics

 

[bligh]

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1991/defever-sharp-cockpit-motor-yacht-3580613/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/sea-ranger-pilothouse-cpmy-3554148/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/ocean-alexander-60-pilothouse-3612978/

Changes, Im not sure if you are aware, but, here in North America, boat availability is low while boat prices are sky high. You are shopping for a boat at the worst time I can think of to be a boat buyer. Maybe in a few years (=/-) it will change when and if a big selloff happens. I have heard this is not the case worldwide.
You may consider changing your purchase plans just because of this alone.

 

[Changes]

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1991/defever-sharp-cockpit-motor-yacht-3580613/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/sea-ranger-pilothouse-cpmy-3554148/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/ocean-alexander-60-pilothouse-3612978/

Changes, Im not sure if you are aware, but, here in North America, boat availability is low while boat prices are sky high. You are shopping for a boat at the worst time I can think of to be a boat buyer. Maybe in a few years (=/-) it will change when and if a big selloff happens. I have heard this is not the case worldwide.
You may consider changing your purchase plans just because of this alone.

Thanks for the links, all of those are possible and I would say the DeFever is closest to our brief.

Since I have just started searching, I was not aware that it was such a strong Seller's Market, with few choices. But that is part of my research into real value of each boat and what I would be prepared to pay (cash).

Luckily I still have a boat, that I can bring to the PNW, or sell in Asia, so that gives me options while scouring the market for the transition to trawler

Pandemic pending our schedule is:

• Summer 2022 in PNW surveying what's locally on the market.
• If nothing found at reasonable value
• Decide whether to sell SG or bring her to PNW in 2023

We will not be without a boat as life is too short and with luck and due diligence plus help on this Forum..... Maybe the right boat will find us
Thanks again
Nick

 

[slowgoesit]

Defever 48 too. Has small twins and three staterooms. Solid displacement hull. Some other nice features like a sea chest instead of thru hulls. Good luck finding one in this market.

There was a DF 48 for sale on here a couple three or four years ago with paravanes. Seemed really nice.

I think the boat you are speaking of was Nomad. Sold in Spring of 2019, renamed Mikala. We really wanted her, but the timing was not right. Then resold in April of 2020 when the new owners got job transferred to Tennessee. We Still wanted her, but just missed her. I think she's still in Florida. Really nice boat, with paravanes. Most 48's have Niads as stated.

 

[slowgoesit]

The owner of this vessel is on TF I believe. I didn't review 100% of your requirements but it's what I thought of.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1984/lowland-471-long-range-trawler-3734906/

What a gorgeous vessel you have though...

Nice looking boat! But I stopped reading when I saw Volvo . . .

 

[Alaskaflyer]

I think the boat you are speaking of was Nomad. Sold in Spring of 2019, renamed Mikala. We really wanted her, but the timing was not right. Then resold in April of 2020 when the new owners got job transferred to Tennessee. We Still wanted her, but just missed her. I think she's still in Florida. Really nice boat, with paravanes. Most 48's have Niads as stated.

I was looking at these pretty hard but decided with our family dynamic of two boys, dog etc. and plans for some long runs on a semi-regular basis, having a pilothouse or at least some separation between the lower helm and the rest of the living space is one of my must-haves

 

[slowgoesit]

I was looking at these pretty hard but decided with our family dynamic of two boys, dog etc. and plans for some long runs on a semi-regular basis, having a pilothouse or at least some separation between the lower helm and the rest of the living space is one of my must-haves

Yep, and the other thing I didn't like about the 48's was that to go from cabin to aft deck you had to exit midships, then walk back . . .kind of like having two living spaces. No yelling out the back door to the person on the aft deck, or yelling forward . . . . just our personal preference though. Nice boats, and we would have been happy with Nomad, or one of the other ones we looked. . . .

 

[jbloyd]

Oh, yes!

Is their a better alternative to a RIB, for the PNW?


Not really. You want an aluminum bottom rather than glass. Think barnacles.

Bullfrog at bullfrogboats.com are pretty popular here in the PNW, for the reasons you mentioned. I have one, powered by a 20HP 4-stroke.

 

[Changes]

Bullfrog at bullfrogboats.com are pretty popular here in the PNW, for the reasons you mentioned. I have one, powered by a 20HP 4-stroke.

Thanks, never heard of the bullfrog till this Forum as I found in an old thread

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s20/bullfrog-whaly-vs-rib-38310.html

On sailboats ,weight being very critical, RIBs were the default choice and I now just replaced my Achilles with a new Highfield
(Interesting comparison in side by side photo)

While we made Sunbrella Chaps to protect RIB from the Sun, leaks eventually happen which lead to more as the tubes loose pressure and flex further under load.

Fishing is a big thing for us and would be even more in PNW so wear and tear on a rib concerns me.

Years back, I ran 2 large live aboard sportfishing boats in Canada (S.S. Thorfinn and Driftwood )
Combined we used 22 Lunds from 14 to 16 feet for our 40 guests (80 per.week) from May to September .

Those boats took a lot of wear and tear from rough use.

Seems to me like.a practical choice if you can provide fendering

 

[Changes]

Yep, and the other thing I didn't like about the 48's was that to go from cabin to aft deck you had to exit midships, then walk back . . .kind of like having two living spaces. No yelling out the back door to the person on the aft deck, or yelling forward . . . . just our personal preference though. Nice boats, and we would have been happy with Nomad, or one of the other ones we looked. . . .

Hi Slowgoesit, Your boat really caught my eye....
can you point me to any links that would show layout and interior?
I did find one for a boat called Tortuga

Thanks Nick

 

[hatteras53]

Hi Kuya Nick,


My wife is a Filipina and we travel often between Baltimore and Manila. I had a 53' Hatteras Motor Yacht before buying our 44' Nauticat Motorsailor schooner. Your larger motor sailor is lovely and you will find it hard to duplicate. The Hatteras 58' LRC might interest you, as it has a walk in engine room and there are tons of space everywhere on this boat. If I the money, it would be on my bucket list. Most of the modern trawlers are truly very expensive. We are happy with our 44'. The 58' is beyond my budget, but for you it might give more space than you now have. Nothing wrong with bringing you vessel to the PNW either. Perhaps my Filipina wife or I could be helpful to the 2 of you in some way. And yes, there are plenty of Filipinos where you will be moving. This means EVERYTHING to a Filipina (ask me how I know). You may reach me here or forkliftman1952@gmail.com or 410-913-2330 usa

Salamat Po !!! Shipmate Michael