Cat D353?

OK, so...the Caterpillar D353. Thoughts?

Not much info on boatdiesel other than a spec sheet. Not much information on what a "b" and other variants might mean unless I missed something.

I see the Malahide for sale in Puget Sound has a 353 with over 13,000 hours (with a top end and turbo rebuild done.) The vessel I am flirting with has reported 8,000 hours.

Yes, I know it is "old" (in boatdiesel parlance ) Superannuated? Venerable? Immemorial?

How many of these are still out there purring along, alongside their air tanks?

I have a D353 with 32 volt starter. 1200 rpm continuous. cruising at
800 to 850 rpm.

Ted said:

I have a D353 with 32 volt starter. 1200 rpm continuous. cruising at
800 to 850 rpm.

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Hi Ted, she's pretty. Does yours have a letter appended to the series? I wonder if a letter designator simply indicates marinized and most vessel sheets simply omit it, or perhaps...the type of starter?

Ever had work done that required a tough search for parts?

No, no letter on the model number.
Rpm correction, full load 1225 rpm, no load 1300rpm, hp 390
No work needed while I have had it, meter reading 6335

Large compressor and air tank. May have had starter changed? I don't know.

Ted said:

No, no letter on the model number.
Rpm correction, full load 1225 rpm, no load 1300rpm, hp 390
No work needed while I have had it, meter reading 6335

Large compressor and air tank. May have had starter changed? I don't know.

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Ah. The one I am looking at has a large tank and a primary and backup compressor, for air start. Good to know there are other options if desired, I imagine that other applications for this engine such as industrial or heavy equipment might utilize electric starters as well, instead of air.

Alaskaflyer said:

Ah. The one I am looking at has a large tank and a primary and backup compressor, for air start. Good to know there are other options if desired, I imagine that other applications for this engine such as industrial or heavy equipment might utilize electric starters as well, instead of air.

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I can't speak to the D353 but a lot of those older Cats could be set up for air, hydraulic, electric or pony engine start. A good old skool electrical shop can set you up with electric starters if that's the way you want to go.

Alaskaflyer said:

Ah. The one I am looking at has a large tank and a primary and backup compressor, [STRIKE]for air start[/STRIKE]. Good to know there are other options if desired, I imagine that other applications for this engine such as industrial or heavy equipment might utilize electric starters as well, instead of air.

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Air start and air controls too. Fun.

Purdy chrome covers

D353 was common in commercial fishing boats and small tugs. They run a long time between overhauls if maintained.
ebay is a good place to look for spare parts. You can find engine kits, manuals, etc. Another place for parts is surplusman.com

Lepke said:

D353 was common in commercial fishing boats and small tugs. They run a long time between overhauls if maintained.
ebay is a good place to look for spare parts. You can find engine kits, manuals, etc. Another place for parts is surplusman.com

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I would guess the most prolific use of the D353 was the D9-G bulldozer. It is a great engine, should easily make 20,000 hrs in a trawler. It’s a 1473 cubic inch turbocharged beast, turning 1300 rpm, putting out the same hp as many 3208s, so stress level is pretty low! There should be lots of engines lounging in junk yards world wide, and I am sure lots of new-old-stock parts if you look in the right places. The D398 was a popular marine engine, it is a V-12 of the same bore and stroke, so many parts are interchangeable.

I would not be afraid of the air starter. They are powerful, rugged, dependable units, easily rebuilt. If the gauge reads full pressure, you are going to get full performance. You do need a separate compressor to fill the tank or you have a limited number of starts. And you can run a very impressive horn off the same tank!

Bill

About half a century ago, at a somewhat remote electric power limited copper mine, we needed to add a Nordberg rock crusher. In conversations with Cat the diesel engine of choice for 24/7 operations was a D353. It was an abusive variable load application, the engine was a brute and performed flawlessly.

I'd guess Cat still supports that engine but the marinization bits and pieces would be worth checking out.

I don’t have much to add however I remember them as sturdy, reliable engines that would run “forever”. I like the lower RPM range and would see air start as a bonus. As long as you have a tank of air you will get her started...

Alaskaflyer said:

Air start and air controls too. Fun.

Purdy chrome covers

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If you're not familiar with pneumatic controls. Condensation in the air tank is your enemy. It will make a mess of your controls and they will fail at the most inopportune time. Daily drain of the air tank and good traps with filters are critical. Inline driers are a very good idea.

I'm not putting pneumatic controls down, I've used them for decades and think in the right application and with proper care and maintenance they are very good.

With pneumatic start and controls you are dependent upon your compressor. Best to have two.

Portage_Bay said:

If you're not familiar with pneumatic controls. Condensation in the air tank is your enemy. It will make a mess of your controls and they will fail at the most inopportune time. Daily drain of the air tank and good traps with filters are critical. Inline driers are a very good idea.

I'm not putting pneumatic controls down, I've used them for decades and think in the right application and with proper care and maintenance they are very good.

With pneumatic start and controls you are dependent upon your compressor. Best to have two.

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Thanks for this. I know there's two recently serviced compressors - one engine driven for underway and one AC electric. Looking at the engine room photos I can see filter traps and many drains in the system. It is a retired workboat from the 60's and the system seems to be built for robustness.

You may know her being where you are. Not smitten I promise, but it checks many boxes since our original cruising plans have changed in the past months.

I had a 353 genset as the main engine excitation provider in the diesel electric Navy fleet tug I commanded - it ran continuously crossing the Pacific. I had two of them as generator motor in a 105-foot fast ferry I delivered from New Jersey to San Diego. Never a problem.

Alaskaflyer said:

Thanks for this. I know there's two recently serviced compressors - one engine driven for underway and one AC electric. Looking at the engine room photos I can see filter traps and many drains in the system. It is a retired workboat from the 60's and the system seems to be built for robustness.

You may know her being where you are. Hecate Ranger. Not smitten I promise, but it checks many boxes since our original cruising plans have changed in the past months.

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Hecate Ranger is a beautiful boat! She's been for sale on and off for a long time. Seems like years. If I were considering purchasing her I'd want to dig into why.

Do you know the manufacturer of the pneumatic controls?

Portage_Bay said:

Hecate Ranger is a beautiful boat! She's been for sale on and off for a long time. Seems like years. If I were considering purchasing her I'd want to dig into why.

Do you know the manufacturer of the pneumatic controls?

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No, though I will ask when I next talk to the broker.

D353 is the straight six version of the 6.5" bore/8" stroke lineup the includes the 379 (v8), 398 (v12), 399 (v16). For decades these have been Cat's workhorses in that HP range, I think beginning in the 50's and in production well into the 80's. Gradually replaced by the 3500 series, which I think are all v-block, and capable of higher hp.

But there are lots of 6.5" bore engines still out there running, mostly in some sort of commercial service. As far as I know still completely supported by Cat, which is pretty good about supporting legacy engines.

Obviously a durable and successful lineup, but they are getting old.

I don't know what the "b" designation means, but in Cat speak that suffix usually means some group of upgrades to the original model. So the b version may be a later model, which is good.

I'd go to a Cat dealer with the engine serial number and they can look up what parts are still available. Probably the wear parts are on the shelf (bearings, seals, cylinder kits, etc) but some parts unique to that model like plumbing fittings and heat exchanger could be NLA. Cat is usually pretty good about checking that for you.

And get it checked out by a tech knowledgeable about that lineup, including a sea trial.

With Ski's info that the 353 is a six inline similar in bore and stroke to the 379 which is a V8 I can say those are sturdy, long lived engines. Very heavily built, nothing at all l like engines being produced today. I think the biggest problem you will have is finding a mechanic who truly knows those old engines. I used to use NC machinery for the work on a 379. The last couple of times they sent youngsters who were on the phone constantly asking questions because they were not intimately familiar with the beast. After that I went to an independent mechanic who know what he was doing but he got busted up in a motorcycle wreck and can't work anymore. I'd do some homework to find a good mechanic before making an offer.

Portage_Bay said:

Hecate Ranger is a beautiful boat! She's been for sale on and off for a long time. Seems like years. If I were considering purchasing her I'd want to dig into why.

Do you know the manufacturer of the pneumatic controls?

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It’s a Wagner.

Thanks for info so far, everyone.

I'm not familiar with Wagner. They're still in business. Perhaps parts won't be too hard to find. A lot of what fails on pneumatics are the soft parts. O rings, seals and the like. Unless you let water and rust get in the system. Then you're into hard parts which can be trouble in obsolete out of production systems.

Alaskaflyer said:

It’s a Wagner.

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Say there is a head gasket failure, with a planned top end overhaul with remanufactured cylinder heads, rebuilt water pump and a remanufactured turbo cartridge, inspect and clean the various coolers, along with the usual service kits. This is freshwater cooled via a heat exchanger.

How much more to go ahead and overhaul the bottom end mostly in place or if that is even possible on this engine (overhaul in place), one wonders.

Alaskaflyer said:

Say there is a head gasket failure, with a planned top end overhaul with remanufactured cylinder heads, rebuilt water pump and a remanufactured turbo cartridge, inspect and clean the various coolers, along with the usual service kits. This is freshwater cooled via a heat exchanger.

How much more to go ahead and overhaul the bottom end mostly in place or if that is even possible on this engine (overhaul in place), one wonders.

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According to Ski in post #17 the 353 is related to the 379. In the for what it's worth column I had a near full in frame overhaul done on a 379 with the engine in the boat. The only thing not touched were the main crank bearings. There wasn't enough overhead room to lift the block and get access. The 379 is a V8 so laying it on it's side was not reasonable. The 353 is a straight 6 so a good shop may be able to lay it over to overhaul it. That 379 went on to work steady for the next 30+ yrs and as far as I know is still running well.