New Gear Shift System

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The MaryAnn

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Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
21
Vessel Name
The MaryAnn
Vessel Make
34' Californian Trawler
Hi, I have outdated gears on my 1979 Californian (2 gearshifters and 2 throttles on top and bottom) which are difficult to use and blister my hand. I would like to add a new operating system with 1 shifter and 1 throttle for both motors. Can anyone recommend a system and how much should I pay a mechanic to install it?

Thanks in advance, Mark from the MaryAnn.

Gearshift, trawler, twin diesel, calif
 
I'd guess that cleaning and greasing the control heads and replacing the cables would go a long way in improving the feel. Might also take a look at how the cables are run, it might be possible to find ways that have less friction.
I've ZF electronic controls going to mechanical throttle and gear. Love the feel and how compact everything is but sometimes the fact that they're electronic makes me nervous.
 
Most of your problems probably reside in the cables. Teleflex cables would be what you need to fix the system. But if you are dead set on replacing everything Morse makes acceptable throttle/gear levers for pleasure boats. If you want to upgrade Kobelt probobly makes the highest quality shifting systems. There prices reflect that as well. Teleflex cables are quality products and used through the entire I industry both pleasure and industrial use for push pull systems. And when replacing that would be the only advisable option to go with. The setup you have would probably be quite usable if you serviced the control heads and replaced the Teleflex cables. Shifting over to fly by wire setup would be hugely expensive and unadvisable, possible but not worth it unless you plan on a repower.
 
Hi, I have outdated gears on my 1979 Californian (2 gearshifters and 2 throttles on top and bottom) which are difficult to use and blister my hand. I would like to add a new operating system with 1 shifter and 1 throttle for both motors. Can anyone recommend a system and how much should I pay a mechanic to install it?

Thanks in advance, Mark from the MaryAnn.

Gearshift, trawler, twin diesel, calif

Hand over hand inspect the shift cables for cracks in the outer jacket, especially at any bends. They are probably at end of life. New cables are fairly cheap to purchase and install.
Q- If they slid easily, would you still keep them?
 
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Hand over hand inspect the shift cables for cracks in the outer jacket, especially at any bends. They are probably at end of life. New cables are fairly cheap to purchase and install.
Q- If they slid easily, would you still keep them?
Yes, my gearshifts are old and outdated, so do you think just replace the cables and shifters and im good to go?
 
Wait, What? Blisters on your hand? How often are you changing direction and speed?

pete
 
Somebody may have shot some lubricant down the cables in the past and that has now gummed up. Some of the dry film lubricants have a carrier that will dissolve old grease and leave Teflon dust. Can be messy if there are cracks in the casing, but a $15 fix.
 
Wait, What? Blisters on your hand? How often are you changing direction and speed?
L

Any suggestions
pete


That’s not why, The station of the cabin works easily no blisters it’s the one on top that doesn’t work properly I can tell the cable is not working right.

I want to put in duel shifters that have to gearshifting throttles on the same lever so it’s easier to drive.
 
That’s not why, The station of the cabin works easily no blisters it’s the one on top that doesn’t work properly I can tell the cable is not working right.

I want to put in duel shifters that have to gearshifting throttles on the same lever so it’s easier to drive.
 

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Yes, my gearshifts are old and outdated, so do you think just replace the cables and shifters and im good to go?

Not so fast. There are at least a dozen moving parts between the knob and the engine. Before replace anything,
Visually inspect the cables, and then disconnect the engine ends and move the levers. The problem might not be in the levers or cables at all. Find the fault then fix the fault.
 
Thanks

Somebody may have shot some lubricant down the cables in the past and that has now gummed up. Some of the dry film lubricants have a carrier that will dissolve old grease and leave Teflon dust. Can be messy if there are cracks in the casing, but a $15 fix.
will try this in the future, I need a new updated gear system for sure though with the gear and throttle on the same lever, anyone know how I determine what length cables I need?
 
Careful on this one...

With single function dual station mechanical controls, the usual set-up is for the upper to push-pull the lower to push-pull the throttle and transmission.

This turns out to be problematic with dual function controls because the calibration has to stay correct or one can ends up making high speed shifts and things like that. As a result, you won't find this type of system around very much anymore. You won't find it, for example, from SeaStar/Teleflex. But, I think someone does make one (I forget who).

To get dual station/dual function controls, one usually does one of two things: (a) Installs electronic controls, or (b) installs the controls using the solution that SeaStar/Teleflex does offer, which has a mechanical lever that actively and positively switches from one helm to the other, so each can be calibrated separately w.r.t. the transmission. It works, but, because one can only switch when both the upper and lower controls are in neutral, there is some inconvenience. Additionally, there can only be one upper-lower switch lever, not one per helm.

One thing to note, if you haven't seen it before, is that you can adjust throttle while in neutral by "pulling out" the lever and then rotating it. This can be done, regardless of which station is selected.

My boat uses this system. I have attached a .pdf with the catalog section and overview. See pages 3/5 and 4/5. I've also included the instructions for the various dual function parts, combined into one .pdf. And, I've included a picture of my switch lever, located net to the door by my lower helm. Notice the empty panel space beneath the know -- the lever and bracket extend into that space behind the panel.

Basically, you'd need a CH5300P dual function control for each helm, the switch lever, and the dual station units for both throttle and transmission, as well as the cable. I recently posted about trying to buy a BrandX knock-off instead of a Seastar/Teleflex replacement for my aging MT-2 controls (the predecessor to the MT-3, which is the predecessor to the CH5300P). The tolerances were bad and the fit and finish only acceptable. They could have been made to work. But, I decided to spend the money and get the brand-name units and quality.

Funny story. My boat has upper and lower helms and, when I was shopping for it, I notices that there were no throttle or transmission controls at the lower helm. The hole had been covered over with a "stuff tray". The MT-2 dual control unit was stowed. I asked the sales person about it. He told me the PO took it out because he didn't use it and wanted a place to put stuff and that all I'd need to do was to put it back in, if I wanted.

After buying the boat, I asked the PO about it. He told me it never worked during his ownership. It had been disconnected years ago. So, I called the PPO. He told me that the controls never, ever worked. He said that Hardin mostly made sailboats, which only have one helm. They put this system into an older sister of my boat, and there was some kind of accident and law suit involving the installation. So, Hardin quit installing the controls and left it to the dealer. The dealers, seeing the problem, left it to the owner. And, the owners never bothered, because the visibility isn't great from the lower helm. As for why both units looked sun-worn, at some point, when the cables were being replaced, they were swapped to make the one on the flybridge look new again.

I can't stand to see something disconnected or not working, so I reinstalled the controls. After researching it, I went with the dual station setup from Seastar/Teleflex. I put the control lever by the lower helm door. This makes it easy for me to come down from the flybridge and switch it over to quickly bump the throttles if I want to while tying up. And, for exactly that reason, I am glad I have it working. I don't need it very often. But, single handing in wind, on some days, am glad to have the lower controls working.

At any rate, I hope this is of some help to you.
 

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Personally, I wouldn't switch away from the 4 lever setup you have. Going to a 2 lever setup will make the 2 station setup more complicated. And it's personal preference, but I hate having shift and throttle in 1 lever. I much prefer the longer lever throws and more defined shifting motion of separate levers.

For what it's worth, your controls appear to be the same Morse controls I have. They're pretty simple and durable. Most likely, with fresh cables and some cleaning and lubrication on the control units, you'll find they work just fine.

As an easy test, unhook the cables from the problematic controls and move the levers. If everything moves freely, smoothly, etc. then the problem is the cables, not the controls.
 
Personally, I wouldn't switch away from the 4 lever setup you have. Going to a 2 lever setup will make the 2 station setup more complicated. And it's personal preference, but I hate having shift and throttle in 1 lever. I much prefer the longer lever throws and more defined shifting motion of separate levers.

For what it's worth, your controls appear to be the same Morse controls I have. They're pretty simple and durable. Most likely, with fresh cables and some cleaning and lubrication on the control units, you'll find they work just fine.

As an easy test, unhook the cables from the problematic controls and move the levers. If everything moves freely, smoothly, etc. then the problem is the cables, not the controls.
Having had a similar problem many years ago on a 48' Offshore Sedan, I consider the above council to be extremely valid. (Helpful) :thumb:
 
I agree w both above.

Blisters???
You must have old dirty cables. Inside
Just fix/clean them.

“Outdated”?
In w the new out w the old?
Much of the time the simpler older things are better.
 
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I agree with above. There is something nice about simple push pull cable setups that I prefer over electric throttles, air is still the best though. Push pull have been used for a very long time and I do not see them being replaced any time soon. Also any reputable company still makes dual controls like you are looking for, and as for someone saying they are problematic and hard or impossible to find he hasn’t had them or looked very far because Morse still makes them and they have sold more throttle controls then every other company combined, and as for some of the other stuff most of that should have been addressed with proper preventative maintenance. There were plenty of no name companies that haven’t stood the test of time that made crap when new and may have had some issues like over shifting or synchronization issues. I’ve got a set of kobelt Throttle/gear levers on my one trawler, that’s a dual station push pull setup and they have better detents and are smoother than just about any throttle setups I’ve ever used, although they should be for over a grand per unit. I’m honestly not a real fan of electric throttle setups and I use them every day for work and use them on commercial grade equipment with 1,500-3,200 hp applications and I still see the downside and issues with them, I haven’t used them on pleasure boats but don’t see how they could come anywhere close to the quality of the commercial grade units so..... For only a 2 station setup push pull is my favorite and for more than 2 I like air shift/throttle.
 
will try this in the future, I need a new updated gear system for sure though with the gear and throttle on the same lever, anyone know how I determine what length cables I need?
I had a single engine boat with single lever, and 2 twin engine boats with separate gear and throttle levers. I liked the single set up, good for aggressive gear/throttle manouvering, docking etc. Now very used to separate controls, though now and then combined would be useful, like docking days when I need to power up to help gear operated direction change/adjustment.
If it`s ok, could you indicate why the firm preference for combined, it might help those giving advice.
 
Whatever you choose for a solution to your problem DO NOT INSTALL electronic controls.
Whenever you see a video of a ship running away from the dock and crashing into other boats, think "how could this happen"

Total electronic controls are sometimes to blame.

pete
 
I was going to convert the shifters in the Green boat to Kobelt single lever dual function units. My plan was to use two Vetus shifter combiners https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/...g9IztbPvtwAwhuYny4k9sSuY0yq2dD94aAr9pEALw_wcB one for the gearbox and one for the throttle. We sold the boat and bought the NP39 before I made the conversion.

I still have the Kobelt controls as mentioned on another thread and want to get rid of them:). It does sound like your issues are cable related and new cables may be the cheapest fix.

To determine cable length it may be printed on one end of the unit. If not would it be possible to attach a messenger line to one end of the cable, pull it out and then measure it? You would have the messenger line to pull the new one in.

Rob
 
Most of your problems probably reside in the cables. Teleflex cables would be what you need to fix the system. But if you are dead set on replacing everything Morse makes acceptable throttle/gear levers for pleasure boats. If you want to upgrade Kobelt probobly makes the highest quality shifting systems. There prices reflect that as well. Teleflex cables are quality products and used through the entire I industry both pleasure and industrial use for push pull systems. And when replacing that would be the only advisable option to go with. The setup you have would probably be quite usable if you serviced the control heads and replaced the Teleflex cables. Shifting over to fly by wire setup would be hugely expensive and unadvisable, possible but not worth it unless you plan on a repower.

Nice boat, how do I know which cables to order? I'm going down tomorrow to see if I can find a part number or something.
 
Dual Controls

I agree with above. There is something nice about simple push pull cable setups that I prefer over electric throttles, air is still the best though. Push pull have been used for a very long time and I do not see them being replaced any time soon. Also any reputable company still makes dual controls like you are looking for, and as for someone saying they are problematic and hard or impossible to find he hasn’t had them or looked very far because Morse still makes them and they have sold more throttle controls then every other company combined, and as for some of the other stuff most of that should have been addressed with proper preventative maintenance. There were plenty of no name companies that haven’t stood the test of time that made crap when new and may have had some issues like over shifting or synchronization issues. I’ve got a set of kobelt Throttle/gear levers on my one trawler, that’s a dual station push pull setup and they have better detents and are smoother than just about any throttle setups I’ve ever used, although they should be for over a grand per unit. I’m honestly not a real fan of electric throttle setups and I use them every day for work and use them on commercial grade equipment with 1,500-3,200 hp applications and I still see the downside and issues with them, I haven’t used them on pleasure boats but don’t see how they could come anywhere close to the quality of the commercial grade units so..... For only a 2 station setup push pull is my favorite and for more than 2 I like air shift/throttle.

Thanks so I'm thinking of checking out the Morse then, my boat mechanic suggested CH7800 series Dual Top mount control (see attachment) what do you think
 

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Any of the Teleflex / SeaStar (formerly Morse), Uflex, Kobelt, or other major brand controls should be good quality.



For the cables, if you stay with a 4 lever setup, you'll just need 1 for 1 replacements of the current cables. But if you change to a 2 lever setup, your cable configuration may change (I haven't personally worked with a 2 helm / 2 lever setup). So make sure you know what needs to change there before buying cables if you change control heads.
 
I was going to convert the shifters in the Green boat to Kobelt single lever dual function units. My plan was to use two Vetus shifter combiners https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/...g9IztbPvtwAwhuYny4k9sSuY0yq2dD94aAr9pEALw_wcB one for the gearbox and one for the throttle. We sold the boat and bought the NP39 before I made the conversion.

I still have the Kobelt controls as mentioned on another thread and want to get rid of them:). It does sound like your issues are cable related and new cables may be the cheapest fix.

To determine cable length it may be printed on one end of the unit. If not would it be possible to attach a messenger line to one end of the cable, pull it out and then measure it? You would have the messenger line to pull the new one in.

Rob

Yep! Vetus was the other system I looked at, which didn't need the switch lever. Maui Pro was the only place that stocked it st the time.
 
From your description the top controls seem the problem. Try disconnecting them from the bottom controls and see if they are still stiff. That would point to cables.
 
Good thread and I'm following.


After having both the single control for both throttle and shift and the dual controls, I MUCH prefer the single.


One can put BOTH engines in one hand, and operate the shift and the throttle, and never more the hand much. And, there's never a chance of accidentally shifting when the throttle is powered up. Just dirt simple.


With the four handles, two shift, and two throttle, hands a flying all over the place. PITA.



Now, I currently have the Glendinning electronic control, which works great, but don't want the expense on my new boat, and the manual is just more reliable.
 
Thanks so I'm thinking of checking out the Morse then, my boat mechanic suggested CH7800 series Dual Top mount control (see attachment) what do you think



I don’t see why these wouldn’t work, I do believe they were designed more for outboards but that shouldn’t matter as long as you get them without tilt and trim option. The cables can’t tell the difference.
 
Not advocating it or anything but I’ve actueally seen a setup on a boat before where downstairs was the 4 single action levers and upstairs on the flybridge was the pair of dual action control. They were actually pretty slick and shifted well so I know it can be done.
 
Folks get upset at the cheap construction of many modern shift units .


I have a 1964 mag that shows a nice single lever Morse shifter , for over $100 .


Translate that to todays script and its over a thousand.


Good stuff is out there , USED , if you look.
 
Folks get upset at the cheap construction of many modern shift units .


I have a 1964 mag that shows a nice single lever Morse shifter , for over $100 .


Translate that to todays script and its over a thousand.


Good stuff is out there , USED , if you look.


You can get good stuff new as well, it's just not cheap. And you've gotta look a bit harder for it, as the stuff that's easiest to get is usually not the good stuff.
 
Something to remember with dual stations you have to overcome the resistance in the other control too. Each control takes a certain amount of force to move out of the detents.
I'd start up top and disconnect the cables at the shifter, check for sticking of the shifter/throttle. Do the same at the lower. If OK then disconnect at the motor-transmission and check. You should be able to tell where the problem is.
Most cables are marked with the length. Last number or two in the part number on the cable. If not just pull and measure. Usually the throttle and shift cables are a different length.
If/when you pull the upper cables out pull a line down with them to tie the new cables to so you can snake them back up. Put a piece of tape on both ends of 1 so you know which 1 goes where.
 

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