We got waked...

"sarcasm font on" The Navy owns SD Bay, you are lucky to be able to use it.
"sarcasm font off"
The reality is, they aren't very courteous nor do they care if your boat gets rocked. They are on the job and for many of those smaller boat they are just young kids who know little about pleasure boating.

My gut feel is that waking is caused by those who have not "worked their way up" to the boat they have.

If you have spent any time in a canoe, or jon boat as a kid, a runabout as a teen or young adult, you know what it is like to be waked by a bigger boat. And therefore may be more considerate when you have your big wake throwing trophy boat in your later years.

Boat shows, boat dealers, and boat manufacturers all tout 30'+ boats as starter boats essentially creating Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack style boat owners. (Notice I didn't say boaters.)

In the military, yeah well, most in the military are well trained and professional, while simultaneously immature and testosterone fueled. Most veterans have all sorts of stories they can tell while they were doing dumb things on active duty. While I don't advocate "boys will be boys" as an excuse, I will verify that it does indeed happen.

Then some people are just jerks.

I broke the eye piece on my Fujinons, when they crashed to the deck when waked. More my fault for not putting them back in their designated holder, than it is the fully laden crew boat that waked me.

USCG
RULE 13
Overtaking


(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in Rules 4 through 18, any vessel
overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being
overtaken.
(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with
another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam; that
is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at
night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither
of her sidelights.
(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another,
she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.
(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not
make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these
Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until
she is finally past and clear.

Jet skis love it, I hate it!!

pete

Lollygag1 said:

You did not mention the donuts part.

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When I wrote to the Navy PIO, I left that part out, as I thought it would be piling on. As it was a Saturday morning, I am guessing the crews were reservists.

So, who has not been violently waked?

Greetings,
Mr. mp. Exactly! I'm wondering what the point of this whole thread is...The fact that the military runs around at high speed (sorta their job) or the pilot wasn't paying attention and is blaming someone else for their own inattentiveness?

fgarriso said:

USCG
RULE 13
Overtaking


(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in Rules 4 through 18, any vessel
overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being
overtaken.
(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with
another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam; that
is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at
night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither
of her sidelights.
(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another,
she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.
(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not
make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these
Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until
she is finally past and clear.

Click to expand...

Not sure what any of this has to do with wakes....

cks said:

You’re right about an overtaking boat. The roll will toss EVERYTHING. It’s awful. That’s why I like the distance. It gives me time to turn bow in. One has to turn at least 90 degrees to accomplish this. It takes time.

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I often found when being waked in a confined channel, as was often the case, as the wake from an overtaking boat comes at you from the stern quarter, rather than try to turn into it, it was easier and quicker to just bear away, throttle off, and present the stern to it. Anything but take it beam on, for sure. With a fast boat approaching from ahead, you see them much sooner and can plan for it better, and as the wave comes at you from a for'd quarter, it is quite easy to just turn to almost bow on, throttle off a bit, and take it at a slight angle on the bow.

Peter B said:

I often found when being waked in a confined channel, as was often the case, as the wake from an overtaking boat comes at you from the stern quarter, rather than try to turn into it, it was easier and quicker to just bear away, throttle off, and present the stern to it. Anything but take it beam on, for sure. With a fast boat approaching from ahead, you see them much sooner and can plan for it better, and as the wave comes at you from a for'd quarter, it is quite easy to just turn to almost bow on, throttle off a bit, and take it at a slight angle on the bow.

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. Surely Navy vessels on maneuvers should be accorded some 'leeway".

Peter B said:

I often found when being waked in a confined channel, as was often the case, as the wake from an overtaking boat comes at you from the stern quarter, rather than try to turn into it, it was easier and quicker to just bear away, throttle off, and present the stern to it. Anything but take it beam on, for sure. With a fast boat approaching from ahead, you see them much sooner and can plan for it better, and as the wave comes at you from a for'd quarter, it is quite easy to just turn to almost bow on, throttle off a bit, and take it at a slight angle on the bow.

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My instinct/practice is to turn toward the wake with throttle on idle, assuming another boat isn't interfering.

I don't know the circumstances of the OP but if the navy boats were inside the marked main channel there may be an assumption that nearby boats are prepared for the conditions. I have learned from bad experiences that if I leave the dock and head out into San Diego Bay I should prepare the boat for near open ocean conditions and secure everything. Maybe 20% of the time I do encounter a large wake or a confluence of wakes. There are a number of working boats, military and civilian who are focused on their mission and likely not thinking too much about how their wake impacts pleasure boaters like us.

READY said:

I don't know the circumstances of the OP but if the navy boats were inside the marked main channel there may be an assumption that nearby boats are prepared for the conditions. I have learned from bad experiences that if I leave the dock and head out into San Diego Bay I should prepare the boat for near open ocean conditions and secure everything. Maybe 20% of the time I do encounter a large wake or a confluence of wakes. There are a number of working boats, military and civilian who are focused on their mission and likely not thinking too much about how their wake impacts pleasure boaters like us.

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We were on a course of 300 degrees magnetic, having left Bridge Pier twenty to starboard. We were well outside of the main channel with the 10th Avenue Marine terminal to starboard. I was tracking with Coastal Explorer at the time so we do have a record of the event.

READY said:

I don't know the circumstances of the OP but if the navy boats were inside the marked main channel there may be an assumption that nearby boats are prepared for the conditions. I have learned from bad experiences that if I leave the dock and head out into San Diego Bay I should prepare the boat for near open ocean conditions and secure everything. Maybe 20% of the time I do encounter a large wake or a confluence of wakes. There are a number of working boats, military and civilian who are focused on their mission and likely not thinking too much about how their wake impacts pleasure boaters like us.

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The dauntless patrol boats do not typically run in the channel, they take the fastest route. Honestly, you have to expect wakes anywhere in the bay, if not from a navy boat then from that crazy 80' Patriot tour boat that does 40 knots and donuts all over the bay. It's not a speed controlled area so prepare your boat for some action.

"So, who has not been violently waked?"

Probably no one , so why not accept the fact that you are on a boat and boats often get waked?

An extra few min. before casting off is the time to put everything in its place , so you can enjoy the ride even if it does get bumpy.

FF said:

An extra few min. before casting off is the time to put everything in its place , so you can enjoy the ride even if it does get bumpy.

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Experienced boaters do this automatically! San Diego Bay is a great bay for boating but can be really "wakey" do to all the

traffic it sees.

FF said:

"So, who has not been violently waked?"

Probably no one , so why not accept the fact that you are on a boat and boats often get waked?

An extra few min. before casting off is the time to put everything in its place , so you can enjoy the ride even if it does get bumpy.

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Well sure, sorta... You are certainly responsible to secure for sea before getting u/w, but the OP's complaint was for an irresponsible act of a near-miss pass of a slow vessel in a narrow pass which apparently was not in violent movement through the efforts of mother nature. Rather, the effect of a rogue wave was inflicted on an innocent vessel with possible injurious effect to bother equipment and personnel. That's a whole 'nother thang than your comment would imply.

Yet because it regularly happens...the point many seem to agree with is being prepared for heavy rolls from the time you leave a protected area and venture forth "anywhere".


It's a sign of the times more so than seamanship on anyone's part.


One can complain, even file a suit....but it's still going to be after the fact and if you haven't been violently waked yet, wait, it will probably happen at even the worst time.


Waiting to hear if the Navy responds and with what "message".

I sometimes run a 65' dinner boat that's a slow, clumsy slug. We often get waked by overtaking vessels and I've found it a better tactic to turn away from the wake so we take it on the stern. No time to turn into it, if I try we end up beam to. If it's from an oncoming boat, then of course turning into the wake works. Passengers don't like spilling the overpriced drinks all over themselves.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. mp. Exactly! I'm wondering what the point of this whole thread is...The fact that the military runs around at high speed (sorta their job) or the pilot wasn't paying attention and is blaming someone else for their own inattentiveness?

Click to expand...

Exactly! With all due respect to the OP - you are dead on.

San Diego bay is quite large, and has no speed restrictions outside of some of the marina areas. While there’s a central ship channel, there’s plenty of maneuvering room outside the channel. You will encounter everything from jet skis to cruise ships and aircraft carriers. Fast and slow. Is some of the “waking” unnecessary - absolutely. But not illegal. (Que idiotic giant tourist jet boat).
Whether staying in bay, or going offshore, we fully secure everything below, and occasionally have to adjust course to address large wakes. And yes, I’ve gotten rolled pretty good a few times when admittedly I was not paying attention. Gotta keep an eye astern.

Boat wakes

The problem very often is that the larger boat going fast chooses not to come off autopilot or off the course on the chartplotter to give smaller boats much room to maneuver or to avoid their wake.

psneeld said:

I have heard it discussed that if the lead vessel does not respond, you are not supposed to overtake till agreement is reached.


That might be all day in some cases...

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That is correct, but almost nobody knows about it.

Some boats create less wake while planning.
When some planning boats come off plane to pass you, create one hell of a wake. I guess the captains never heard of idle speed

Cruising at 8 kts I can be either a roller or a rollee. When I'm passing a slower boat I try to plan ahead and increase separation but it also helps to plan your wake to hit them more astern than on the beam. Takes a little mental geometry but coming up 15 degrees can make a big difference to the victim.

OldDan1943 said:

Some boats create less wake while planning.
When some planning boats come off plane to pass you, create one hell of a wake. I guess the captains never heard of idle speed

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Yea, I live in a mooring field which is next to a public launch ramp, so lots of traffic. These guys come in at full plane dragging maybe a 6" wake. Then they slow to half speed with a 3' wake and 20 feet from us. And they can't figure out why we're yelling at them. Brains.

That's normal there.

BDofMSP said:

When we were coming up the Tenn-Tom waterway my captain made a serious point to slow down to no wake EVERY time we saw a smaller boat (mostly Jon boats), no matter how far off. I asked him if that was really always necessary when the river was wide. He just showed me a photo of where someone had shot a crossbow through the hull once.

I agreed completely.
BD

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He must have been passing very close for a cross bow to penetrate the hull. Although illegal and dangerous I like it. We owned a pontoon. Often at anchor swimming and fishing jerk skiers think we liked to have them buzz us even with a "diver down" flag. I kept a fishing pole handy with a Daredevil treble hook lure. We owned the pontoon for 17 years. Only hooked one. He had the good sense not to involve the FWC.

'Lo All, Two stories:
1. Once, when I still owned the 46' sailboat, I was in St. Andrews Bay, which is a deep and very wide bay for the most part, when a US Navy landing craft air cushion (LCAC) came up along side me, then made a 90 degree turn away from me. For those unfamiliar with these craft, they "float" on air and are powered by four huge turbo-jet engines driving ducted fans. The wind from them can be well over 300 MPH. I was under full sail (main and genoa) and had seen the hover craft coming up the bay (they are LOUD) so had moved over as far as my keel would permit - giving it the majority of the bay, about 1/2 mile at that point. When it turned 90 degrees from my port beam, it was about 75-100' from me. The net effect was to knock the boat down to where the spreaders were in the water. I think the top of the mast also hit the water, but don't know for sure - I was just hanging on. I do know I got a shower from the water off of the main sail. Later, after docking the boat, I called the Navy base and related the incident to the commander. He said he would look into it. That was the last I heard of it, but I do know that the hover craft never again came anywhere close to my sailboat.


2. The incident Rich related to (Post #14, above) happened directly across the bayou from my dock. At the time, I was working on my boat and was normally on it during the daytime. Two of our neighborhood kids had jet-skis and greatly irritated most of our neighbors by the noise, but I don't think the kids did what they were accused of, i.e., deliberately waking anyone's boat - at least that I saw. The supposedly waked boat was docked at the end of a "T" dock, so was broadside to the channel - where every passing boat "waked" it to some extent. I received a subpoena to testify in court and testified as to what I had observed - or not observed as the case was. As Rich said, the jury decided in favor of the kids and their parents in, if I remember correctly, a one million dollar law suit.

rslifkin said:

Out of curiosity, what would you prefer us faster boats to do? Generally I just trim way down for a moment when passing while on plane. I lose 3/4 of a knot and flatten my wake significantly. To make less wake by slowing down, I have to be doing less than 7 kts (which often means not passing).

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I disagree. You can run at 10-12 knots and have a small enough wake to not be an issue that tosses boats around.

I cruise with planing boats. Grew up on planing boats.
I truly understand the dilemma.
All I ask of overtaking or approaching vessels, planing or displace, if circumstances permit, put some distance between you and the other vessel. Time to course correct to quarter a wake is really all I ask for.