cooking, bathing and cabin heat - A lot of research - no conclusions yet

Wise ones - I (PNW trawler/tugger wannabe) am making a run at a Nordic 32 on the east coast to be shipped back to puget sound. Of course this is an east coast configured boat (genset (currently blown / gone, boat is discounted for it), 50 amp shore power, 4 golf cart house bank + starter battery set, reverse cycle A/C and an all electric galley) I am a more typical Puget sound boater where the dream system would be more like: No Genset, Propane galley (exploring diesel cooking and induction, so far meh!), hydronic heat + on demand hot water, enough solar for 3-5 days on the hook and a good book to read.

Has anyone gone down this road who might be willing to give me the good (great idea) the bad (yowza 15K if you DIY) and the ugly (Am I reading this right? A/C units have through hulls?)

Looking for: Advice, referral to good advice, war stories, show and tell (post covid) or (if you hurry before I say yes) a NW configured NT 32/34 for a reasonable price.

Greg
It appears the vessel is near ideal with the exception of diesel heat. I'm unaware that there is a typical PNW boat. We use our AC frequently for both heat and cool whether in WA, BC or AK. As far as 50 amp, you can get an adaptor and use a 30 amp cord. Consider yourself lucky with the genset, few 32s have them.

Whatever you decide, I'd suggest you give it about a year or so first... to assess whether/how what it came with might work well enough anyway... and if not, how best to proceed from where you are to where you want to be.

Costs of using a genset, reverse cycle heat, electric galley... compared to installing and then feeding hydronic and propane? Could be as little as a buck$ two fifty between the two...

Especially if you might add solar anyway...

-Chris

Personally, I'd add diesel heat and solar, but leave the rest alone. A/C is occasionally nice to have even if it's rarely super hot, and when you're at a dock, you can use the reverse cycle on the A/Cs for heat (if power isn't metered that'll be cheaper than burning diesel and saves wear on the diesel heater). Add an inverter to allow for stuff like making coffee without firing up the genset.



If you do hydronic heat, you could plumb the water heater heat exchanger into the loop so it's always kept hot. Otherwise, assuming you run the generator for a bit in the evening to cook dinner, the hot water will heat up during the generator run.



It'll take a lot less work to keep genset use down to at most a 1 hour or less run every day or 2 than to get rid of it entirely. Basically, add enough solar and inverter to cover most of your needs, then use the genset to group as many of the high power demand tasks together as possible (and then you've got it for battery charging if you get a few really cloudy days in a row).

SO you have heat. Really, the only thing you are lacking is heat on the hook.
I agree with others, see how it works first then decide what to do.


Does the boat have an inverter?

Greg Salish Cruiser said:

Wise ones - I (PNW trawler/tugger wannabe) am making a run at a Nordic 32 on the east coast to be shipped back to puget sound. Of course this is an east coast configured boat (genset, 50 amp shore power, 4 golf cart house bank + starter battery set, reverse cycle A/C and an all electric galley) I am a more typical Puget sound boater where the dream system would be more like: No Genset, Propane galley (exploring diesel cooking and induction, so far meh!), hydronic heat + on demand hot water, enough solar for 3-5 days on the hook and a good book to read.

Has anyone gone down this road who might be willing to give me the good (great idea) the bad (yowza 15K if you DIY) and the ugly (Am I reading this right? A/C units have through hulls?)

Looking for: Advice, referral to good advice, war stories, show and tell (post covid) or (if you hurry before I say yes) a NW configured NT 32/34 for a reasonable price.

Click to expand...

Thanks to those who have weighed in so far. Yes, there is a "xantrax inverter" not sure about specs at this point.

And remember, there is currently no genset at all so I think "trying it for a year" which is generally terrific advice is not so feasible. No way to do much of anything except at the dock.

Folks thought the boat had a genset since you said it did in your original post.

Giggitoni said:

Folks thought the boat had a genset since you said it did in your original post.

Click to expand...

Sorry for the confusion, I will edit it ASAP.

My current boat has a propane galley and diesel heat (Espar system), and it is a dream. I had never even considered it or thought about before I got this boat, but for me it was a game changer. Extends my "on the hook" season by a lot... earlier in the spring, and later into fall cold weather. It's cozy, warm, and quiet. In colder weather, it's much nicer than running the reverse-cycle. My boat is on the Chesapeake, but I used to live in the PNW, and if I were back there, I would have the same checklist as you. Propane galley and diesel heat would be much higher priority than a reverse-cycle ac/heat unit. My boat came from Maine, so it was equipped like this when I bought it, and it makes so much more sense for cooler climates. On the Chesapeake, I run the a/c a lot in summer, but I don't use the unit so much for heat -- it's louder and not as cozy with the forced air.

TrawlerJoe said:

My current boat has a propane galley and diesel heat (Espar system), and it is a dream. I had never even considered it or thought about before I got this boat, but for me it was a game changer. Extends my "on the hook" season by a lot... earlier in the spring, and later into fall cold weather. It's cozy, warm, and quiet. In colder weather, it's much nicer than running the reverse-cycle. My boat is on the Chesapeake, but I used to live in the PNW, and if I were back there, I would have the same checklist as you. Propane galley and diesel heat would be much higher priority than a reverse-cycle ac/heat unit. My boat came from Maine, so it was equipped like this when I bought it, and it makes so much more sense for cooler climates. On the Chesapeake, I run the a/c a lot in summer, but I don't use the unit so much for heat -- it's louder and not as cozy with the forced air.

Click to expand...

Great - you get it. We don't even have AC in our house. If it gets hot we go out on the boat. If it is hot on the boat we put our feet in the water and risk freezing to death in the heat of summer! I have run heat on our sailboat in August!!! So, do you have a hydronic system or forced air?

Fine tuning: Old a/c units I suspect, old hot water heater, older galley appliances. No genset at the moment. I am leaning your way.

I did just that in 2018. Bought an AT34 in Tennessee, built as an east coast boat: electric galley, two reverse cycle A/C units, no other heat (but an NL 6KW genset), no inverter. The original owners were marina - marina cruisers so unlike many east coast boats the genset had only 150 hours. Trucked it to Anacortes, cruised Sept - Oct in the 2018 season. It is good advice to try it like it is and see what you like/don't like.

I found the electric galley and heat to be a PITA. Have to fire the genset just to make tea. Run it half the evening and morning to heat the boat.

In early 2019, I removed the Force 10 electric range and replaced it with the propane version in the same cutout. I added the propane system in a way identical to the factory install. I removed one of the AC units and replaced it with a "whole boat" dehumidifier using the same ductwork. I installed a diesel hydronic heat/domestic water system (ITR Zephyr). Added a Victron inverter/charger. I also did many other upgrades at the same time unrelated to ease vs. west coast boats. Cruised July - Oct to SE Alaska and return.

I did all the work myself, buying the parts discount online, if I'd paid a boatyard the prices would be substantially higher. Roughly:

Propane range and system: ~ $2000 for range, plumbing, tank, regulator, gas sniffer.

ITR hydronic system: ~ $7000 for full blown 4 zone heat and domestic water. An air system like Webasto would have been about $4000 but would not heat water.

Whole boat dehumidifier: ~ $1300 replacing one AC unit.

Victron 2000W inverter/charger: ~ $1700 with a few upgrades to DC systems.

The ITR hydronic system was the only thing for which I got rough "professionally" estimates, $10K - $15K was the labor estimate. It did take me the better part of 3 weeks to do. I got one day's hired help (a smaller guy who could get into places I could not to help run the hose).

The change to propane for cooking and diesel for heat was a huge improvement. The genset got about 6 hours total run time in 2019 - could have been removed and I wouldn't have missed it. If it broke, I'd put in solar (on the list anyway) and not replace it. The dehumidifier (which was a bit of an experiment) has been one of the best improvements. The PNW can be pretty humid as you know, and can feel downright sultry at temps above 75 or so. The dehumidifier has fixed that and kept the boat dry 100% of the time. The remaining AC unit has been on twice in 2019 for a couple of hours.

The total cost related to east vs. west was about $12K in equipment and $19K in trucking or $31K total. That is substantial, but about the same or a bit less than the east vs. west market price difference. In my case though, I got a fresh water boat very well kept in a covered slip and I am happy at the result. If you had to pay a yard to install all of that, the additional cost might be enough to pause and reconsider.

Greg Salish Cruiser said:

Great - you get it. We don't even have AC in our house. If it gets hot we go out on the boat. If it is hot on the boat we put our feet in the water and risk freezing to death in the heat of summer! I have run heat on our sailboat in August!!! So, do you have a hydronic system or forced air?

Fine tuning: Old a/c units I suspect, old hot water heater, older galley appliances. No genset at the moment. I am leaning your way.

Click to expand...

The Espar is forced air, but not nearly the drafty feel of the reverse-cycle, which blows a huge volume of air at a high rate, and is noisy.

I also had no a/c in my house in WA. Never really needed it. My windows had no screens either, never really needed those either, as the mosquitoes were not the killers they are on the Chesapeake.

I have questioned many times my decision to leave the PNW. But then, I remember the long, gray, drizzly nine months each year... lol.

Where’s the bathing pics?

Nomad Willy said:

Where’s the bathing pics?

Click to expand...

Thanks man - I appreciate your interest.

Check out this thread for heat:
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s30/chinese-diesel-heater-54446.html

There is an indepth post of someone installing one here:
https://fc8b4d1f-99be-480d-8c8c-1a2...d/d19c24_34798a4405cb457ba8b83e5eeaba0416.pdf

Total cost around $250.00! It is forced air heat, not hydraunic, so you can't use it to heat water unfortunately, but inexpensive, and one unit would probably heat up your 32' adequately.

I'd go propane stove, making sure you adequately house the propane bottle(s), or induction, 2 burner hotplate.

Install 400+ watts of solar, the more the better assuming you have room. Your 4 GC batteries should provide you with 30 or so hours of hook time running diesel heat, etc. You don't mention what your fridge is, but I am assuming electric since you say "all electric galley.

If you can spring for 4 100ah LiFePO batteries, that would do the trick! Put more money into solar and batteries, you will still spend less than installing a new diesel marine generator. Good luck!

DDW said:

I did just that in 2018. Bought an AT34 in Tennessee, built as an east coast boat: electric galley, two reverse cycle A/C units, no other heat (but an NL 6KW genset), no inverter. The original owners were marina - marina cruisers so unlike many east coast boats the genset had only 150 hours. Trucked it to Anacortes, cruised Sept - Oct in the 2018 season. It is good advice to try it like it is and see what you like/don't like.

I found the electric galley and heat to be a PITA. Have to fire the genset just to make tea. Run it half the evening and morning to heat the boat.

In early 2019, I removed the Force 10 electric range and replaced it with the propane version in the same cutout. I added the propane system in a way identical to the factory install. I removed one of the AC units and replaced it with a "whole boat" dehumidifier using the same ductwork. I installed a diesel hydronic heat/domestic water system (ITR Zephyr). Added a Victron inverter/charger. I also did many other upgrades at the same time unrelated to ease vs. west coast boats. Cruised July - Oct to SE Alaska and return.

I did all the work myself, buying the parts discount online, if I'd paid a boatyard the prices would be substantially higher. Roughly:

Propane range and system: ~ $2000 for range, plumbing, tank, regulator, gas sniffer.

ITR hydronic system: ~ $7000 for full blown 4 zone heat and domestic water. An air system like Webasto would have been about $4000 but would not heat water.

Whole boat dehumidifier: ~ $1300 replacing one AC unit.

Victron 2000W inverter/charger: ~ $1700 with a few upgrades to DC systems.

The ITR hydronic system was the only thing for which I got rough "professionally" estimates, $10K - $15K was the labor estimate. It did take me the better part of 3 weeks to do. I got one day's hired help (a smaller guy who could get into places I could not to help run the hose).

The change to propane for cooking and diesel for heat was a huge improvement. The genset got about 6 hours total run time in 2019 - could have been removed and I wouldn't have missed it. If it broke, I'd put in solar (on the list anyway) and not replace it. The dehumidifier (which was a bit of an experiment) has been one of the best improvements. The PNW can be pretty humid as you know, and can feel downright sultry at temps above 75 or so. The dehumidifier has fixed that and kept the boat dry 100% of the time. The remaining AC unit has been on twice in 2019 for a couple of hours.

The total cost related to east vs. west was about $12K in equipment and $19K in trucking or $31K total. That is substantial, but about the same or a bit less than the east vs. west market price difference. In my case though, I got a fresh water boat very well kept in a covered slip and I am happy at the result. If you had to pay a yard to install all of that, the additional cost might be enough to pause and reconsider.

Click to expand...

Spectacularly helpful. I hadn't thought of the whole boat dehumidifier. Brilliant, also may be accomplished by running the A/C maybe? I was budgeting about 15K for my equipment upgrades and 13.5 for my shipping, which, as you say is somewhat covered by the market premium we pay for boats in this glorious cruising grounds. Some of it wouldn't be "covered", but I would have it just the way I wanted. My labor of course is free, and only a so-so deal at that. but it sounds like I am in the ballpark if I can buy the boat right.

Apparently Sure marine (about three miles from where I keep the boat) are some of the best in the business in the hydronic heat world. They sell an appropriately sized "kit" for DIY folks that runs about 5K. They said it runs about that much again to hire someone to do install. I figure I can do some of the work but will either hire out the final testing etc. or I will get it surveyed at completion to make sure it is compliant / I don't die. It looks like a pretty straightforward conversion to propane galley. I am figuring $1,500 for a range, $1,000 for tank, regulators, locker, solenoid, sniffer, alarm etc and maybe a bit for testing. I am aware of and undaunted by the risk and regulations around propane systems. You don't screw around - it needs to be perfect, redundantly tested, safeguarded and compliant. I did a natural gas install on my house. Paid to have the system pressure tested before I went live. They call me captain careful for a reason!

So I am at $7,500. Because it is DIY and a boat job at that, I am guessing it will be double my estimate for some reason not yet determined (Probably needing to hire some of it out when I get frustrated, bored, etc). Super scientific right? Years of experience at this. It will be that much for some reason. If I am wrong I will greedily gobble up the $$ for inverter, solar and batteries.

All vs $15K for a new genset. And your way replaces some pretty old bits of gear at the same time. (Galley, A/C, Domestic Hot water, Genset already gone)

All theoretical at this point. But.... Your story validates my idea that you end up with a sweetly configured boat for the PNW. It also lets me know I am in the ballpark with regard to $$.

Now the hard part. Acquire boat at price that works!

slowgoesit said:

Check out this thread for heat:
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s30/chinese-diesel-heater-54446.html

There is an indepth post of someone installing one here:
https://fc8b4d1f-99be-480d-8c8c-1a2...d/d19c24_34798a4405cb457ba8b83e5eeaba0416.pdf

Total cost around $250.00! It is forced air heat, not hydraunic, so you can't use it to heat water unfortunately, but inexpensive, and one unit would probably heat up your 32' adequately.

I'd go propane stove, making sure you adequately house the propane bottle(s), or induction, 2 burner hotplate.

Install 400+ watts of solar, the more the better assuming you have room. Your 4 GC batteries should provide you with 30 or so hours of hook time running diesel heat, etc. You don't mention what your fridge is, but I am assuming electric since you say "all electric galley.

If you can spring for 4 100ah LiFePO batteries, that would do the trick! Put more money into solar and batteries, you will still spend less than installing a new diesel marine generator. Good luck!

Click to expand...

On the right track with my thinking too - you can put a lot of solar and battery on the boat for the weight and $$ of a generator which could easily handle everything other than cooking and heating. (and AC which I don't need here) in fact, I may not need any more solar and battery than I have at the moment, so I can "step into this part". Can always run the engine if I am wrong until I upgrade / add solar.

Thanks for commenting!

Some A/C units have a dedicated dehumidify mode. Personally, as long as they work, I'd just keep the A/Cs even if you don't need them for cooling often.

Being that the boat is already wired for a genset, you could get one in there for $10k or less. As an example, a 6.5kw Phasor unit is about $8000 from what I can find.

As far as electric vs propane galley, don't forget to factor in fuel types. With solar / battery / inverter / genset and an electric galley, you just have 1 fuel type that does everything (diesel). There's a convenience benefit to that vs needing to fill propane tanks.

You're going to want solar and an inverter no matter which way you go, as having a way to power smaller stuff from the batteries is very useful. And depending on just how much solar you can fit, how big an inverter you install and the size of the battery bank, you may even be able to do a bit of electric cooking (at least coffee and breakfast) without needing the genset.

You'll also want diesel fired heat no matter what, as nobody wants to run a genset non-stop for heat when away from the dock.

Greg Salish Cruiser said:

Spectacularly helpful. I hadn't thought of the whole boat dehumidifier. Brilliant, also may be accomplished by running the A/C maybe? I was budgeting about 15K for my equipment upgrades and 13.5 for my shipping, which, as you say is somewhat covered by the market premium we pay for boats in this glorious cruising grounds. Some of it wouldn't be "covered", but I would have it just the way I wanted. My labor of course is free, and only a so-so deal at that. but it sounds like I am in the ballpark if I can buy the boat right.

Apparently Sure marine (about three miles from where I keep the boat) are some of the best in the business in the hydronic heat world. They sell an appropriately sized "kit" for DIY folks that runs about 5K. They said it runs about that much again to hire someone to do install. I figure I can do some of the work but will either hire out the final testing etc. or I will get it surveyed at completion to make sure it is compliant / I don't die. It looks like a pretty straightforward conversion to propane galley. I am figuring $1,500 for a range, $1,000 for tank, regulators, locker, solenoid, sniffer, alarm etc and maybe a bit for testing. I am aware of and undaunted by the risk and regulations around propane systems. You don't screw around - it needs to be perfect, redundantly tested, safeguarded and compliant. I did a natural gas install on my house. Paid to have the system pressure tested before I went live. They call me captain careful for a reason!

So I am at $7,500. Because it is DIY and a boat job at that, I am guessing it will be double my estimate for some reason not yet determined (Probably needing to hire some of it out when I get frustrated, bored, etc). Super scientific right? Years of experience at this. It will be that much for some reason. If I am wrong I will greedily gobble up the $$ for inverter, solar and batteries.

All vs $15K for a new genset. And your way replaces some pretty old bits of gear at the same time. (Galley, A/C, Domestic Hot water, Genset already gone)

All theoretical at this point. But.... Your story validates my idea that you end up with a sweetly configured boat for the PNW. It also lets me know I am in the ballpark with regard to $$.

Now the hard part. Acquire boat at price that works!

Click to expand...

Your costs sound about right. Trucking may be more than that - make sure the truckers know the height on the trailer when they quote. On mine the truck was $12.5K and escort fees due to height were $7K. I don't think a NT32 is much lower than an AT34.

Beware that the Suremarine REAL heat exchangers do not produce the advertised amount of heat (the figures are the max for the core only in lab conditions). On a small boat an install of a Webasto type boiler ends up taking a fair amount of space - lots of components. That's one of the reasons I went with the ITR Zephyr which is more highly integrated (but also more costly).

AC units do dehumidify, but they are very inefficient at it and take a lot of power. Practically speaking, they can't be run without plugging in or starting a genset. A dehumidifier is built differently and much more efficient for the task. The one I put in uses about 450w when running, and runs around 20-30% of the time. We have it on anytime we are at the dock or moving, running from the inverter which the alternator can easily supply. We run it in anchorages from batteries. An AC unit is designed to cool the air, dehumidification is a byproduct. In the PNW, you generally don't want the cooling. A dehumidifier will add a small amount of heat (the 450w) which in that climate is usually welcome. As it does not need a cooling water intake, it can be run in dry storage (we run it all winter on the hard) or in the water unattended without concern about an open thru hull.

DDW said:

I found the electric galley and heat to be a PITA. Have to fire the genset just to make tea.

Click to expand...

Does the vessel have a microwave, house bank and inverter setup? Along with an induction (portable even) cooktop - coffee, toast, tea, oatmeal, eggs etc can be done without firing up the genset. There are so many ways to do things, no one way holds the top rung when it comes to making tea.

I haven't read all the responses. I will give you my ideal boat which amazingly enough... lol ..., just happens to resemble my boat. Be aware I just finished a multi-hundred thousand refit.

So I will just describe - TO ME - the perfect PNW and coastal BC boat.

1. The boat has hydronic heating which also heats your hot water as well as the boat. You don't need a hot water tank tied into your boat engine, nice but not necessary. When you show up to your boat to depart, turn the hot water tank (AC selection) on to heat water before you leave the dock. With the small tank you will have that can be done amazingly quickly - 15 to 20 minutes. When on the hook, that same tank takes its heat from the hydronic heater. Note: I got Espar but I think Hurricane might be better, check that claim out.

2. A cockpit with either a hard or soft bimini (I prefer hard, I have soft). The top of the bimini, especially a hard one is a great place for solar power. Soft walls that can roll down, this is good for the rain we get in our respective areas. And if you head into the Broughtons and Alaska (the plague will leave), it get colder and rainier even in summer. And a statistic I still find hard to believe, but Ketchican has more rain in July than Seattle does in November, now that's saying something. So in those wretched rain periods (you are going to use your boat in the off season, aren't you?) you can sip the champagne in the cockpit and contemplate how great life is.

My buddy just bought a NT 32 about a month and half ago so I've been on it twice. The cockpit area is small but still worth it to have extra livable space.

3. Get batteries, either lithium or fireflies that provide a deeper discharge rate, can stand abuse and neglect, charge fast and will last a long time. I have 6 fireflies that provides 700 amp of power at full discharge, and 560 amps to 20 % discharge (you can do that with these two types of batteries).

4. Add solar, don't bother asking how much, add as much as you can. No one has ever been heard to say they wish they hadn't added as much solar as they did. My refit guy disappointed me in this regard. My panels are three 100 watts but the space could easily handled three 150 watts.

5. No generator, you don't need one as long as you don't add big ticket electrical appliances or a jacuzzi. On the hook you can still use a toaster, microwave, hair blower (set on medium heat and medium blow).

6. Higher amp alternator - 140 to 200 amps. Or add a second one.

7. Efoy. There are three levels of Efoy - 80, 140, 210. Efoy is a methanol fuel cell. The best way to understand a fuel cell on your boat is this - imagine you have a solar panel system that works in the dark, in the light, under all conditions for 24 hours a day if you want. I have the Efoy 210 and it puts out slight lower than 8 amps an hour for as long as I leave it on, or just turn it on in certain situations, which is what I do. You won't use the Efoy unit much during the summer but as you head into off season with lots of cloud, you will use it much more. And power draw goes up in the off season, fans on your hydronic heater for example so your fuel cell is helpful then.

8. Dual system for running your boat. So I have a two burner Force 10 stove/oven that runs on propane. And of course a BBQ. So when the boat is on the hook in off season, I run the propane stove and BBQ. I run the hydronic heater to heat the cabin and hot water.

I also have a small convection oven and induction plate. When I'm at a marina, the Scottish comes out in me and I want to use the power I paid for, so I cook with the convection oven or BBQ, and induction cooking. Use the propane when I need to, don't use the propane when I don't need to.

In the above scenarios of batteries, fuel cell, solar and alternator, you can use the microwave (I do for about 5 minutes a day), toaster (I do for about 6 minutes a day), TV (I only watch DVD's, but my 28 inch tv is 50 watts), and lights etc. on the hook and can generate enough amps every day to be out for a long time on the hook.

DDW said:

Your costs sound about right. Trucking may be more than that - make sure the truckers know the height on the trailer when they quote. On mine the truck was $12.5K and escort fees due to height were $7K. I don't think a NT32 is much lower than an AT34.

Beware that the Suremarine REAL heat exchangers do not produce the advertised amount of heat (the figures are the max for the core only in lab conditions). On a small boat an install of a Webasto type boiler ends up taking a fair amount of space - lots of components. That's one of the reasons I went with the ITR Zephyr which is more highly integrated (but also more costly).

AC units do dehumidify, but they are very inefficient at it and take a lot of power. Practically speaking, they can't be run without plugging in or starting a genset. A dehumidifier is built differently and much more efficient for the task. The one I put in uses about 450w when running, and runs around 20-30% of the time. We have it on anytime we are at the dock or moving, running from the inverter which the alternator can easily supply. We run it in anchorages from batteries. An AC unit is designed to cool the air, dehumidification is a byproduct. In the PNW, you generally don't want the cooling. A dehumidifier will add a small amount of heat (the 450w) which in that climate is usually welcome. As it does not need a cooling water intake, it can be run in dry storage (we run it all winter on the hard) or in the water unattended without concern about an open thru hull.

Click to expand...

I got a pretty solid idea on the trucking. Of course that will be a contract before I go off of contingency (assuming we get there.) I will definitely take a look at the ITR and the dehumidifier. (What brand / model if you don't mind) I am truing to find some reason to keep the a/c units around and out of the landfill!

sunchaser said:

Does the vessel have a microwave, house bank and inverter setup? Along with an induction (portable even) cooktop - coffee, toast, tea, oatmeal, eggs etc can be done without firing up the genset. There are so many ways to do things, no one way holds the top rung when it comes to making tea.

Click to expand...

That is what it currently has. Perfect for tea!

sunchaser said:

Does the vessel have a microwave, house bank and inverter setup?

Click to expand...

As bought from the east coast, microwave but no inverter. So yes, genset had to be started to have tea. Back in the SE, the assumption is the genset is running all the time because AC is necessary to support life in that climate.

Greg Salish Cruiser said:

I got a pretty solid idea on the trucking. Of course that will be a contract before I go off of contingency (assuming we get there.) I will definitely take a look at the ITR and the dehumidifier. (What brand / model if you don't mind) I am truing to find some reason to keep the a/c units around and out of the landfill!

Click to expand...

As I said, just make sure you (and the trucker) know the height. Big difference in cost in just a few inches. My AT34 is higher on the trailer than my 45' deep keel sailboat and cost $4K more east -> west just because of that. On the AT, in 2 states, lead car had to run entire route through the state and back before the permit is issued to move the boat. Lead car with pole needed for entire route.

I like the ITR better than the Webasto/Espar but there are opinions both ways. One thing for sure, the ITR heat exchangers put out their spec in heat and the REAL ones don't - I've installed several of each on both my boats. The problem with the REAL is the fans are wimpy even though the units are good quality. Even their biggest fan has tiny airflow compared to the ITR.

The dehumidifier is the SanteFe Ultra Aire 70H. It fits in the same space as the AC unit it replaced. You need a short 8"-7" adapter to fit it to typical boat AC ductwork.

Greg Salish Cruiser said:

d
Looking for: Advice, referral to good advice, war stories, show and tell (post covid) or (if you hurry before I say yes) a NW configured NT 32/34 for a reasonable price.

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Your money, I am not going to tell you how to spend. Just walk away NOW.

It costs a lot of your money to ship the broken boat across the country and then even more or your money to repair all that does not work.

Greg,
I mostly agree with OldDan. Moving a boat across the country is full of risks. All may work out well, but maybe not. Depending where from, the boat could be a salvaged boat, extremely sun damaged, etc. That can be checked out. It is a lot of potential problems and effort, to ship a boat that does not meet your wants and needs. I would wait and find one closer to home.
After boating around these parts (PNW) for years, I agree you are on the right track as to what you think is the perfect PNW boat (both make and equipment ).
Hydronic heat costs more than Airtronic, but can be configured to heat your water. I would still plumb for engine heating as well. There are many days when you motor and then would not waste all that "free" heat and have to pay for your diesel heater as well. Without a generator, propane cooking is the way to go! More solar is better than less solar. Unless your engine has a high output alternator with external regulator, do not depend on the engine for charging the house bank. The stock "car style" alternator is not designed to put out the high amount of power (both volts and amps) (long term) needed to properly recharge a larger house bank using FLA, AGM, Gel, etc. batteries. If that is the main method (stock alternator) you will be habitually undercharged. My advice is be patient, a good local boat will come up, but you will need to act quickly and keep out a watchful eye.
Good luck.

firehoser75 said:

Greg,
I mostly agree with OldDan. Moving a boat across the country is full of risks. All may work out well, but maybe not. Depending where from, the boat could be a salvaged boat, extremely sun damaged, etc. That can be checked out. It is a lot of potential problems and effort, to ship a boat that does not meet your wants and needs. I would wait and find one closer to home.
After boating around these parts (PNW) for years, I agree you are on the right track as to what you think is the perfect PNW boat (both make and equipment ).
Hydronic heat costs more than Airtronic, but can be configured to heat your water. I would still plumb for engine heating as well. There are many days when you motor and then would not waste all that "free" heat and have to pay for your diesel heater as well. Without a generator, propane cooking is the way to go! More solar is better than less solar. Unless your engine has a high output alternator with external regulator, do not depend on the engine for charging the house bank. The stock "car style" alternator is not designed to put out the high amount of power (both volts and amps) (long term) needed to properly recharge a larger house bank using FLA, AGM, Gel, etc. batteries. If that is the main method (stock alternator) you will be habitually undercharged. My advice is be patient, a good local boat will come up, but you will need to act quickly and keep out a watchful eye.
Good luck.

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Good counsel form all of you, and I thank you.

I actually have a offer in on this boat at a price (including shipping) that works assuming everyone is being forthright with condition etc. If the offer is not accepted we are out. If it is, we begin the due diligence process. Included in this process is an engine analysis, a survey and a sea trial. I can walk at any time. Of course each of these experts will cost $$. I am also going to have a shipping contract in hand with a qualified, insured, experienced shipper. The price, if accepted will reflect the lack of a generator. Again - if there is deceit involved that I can't uncover in the survey this could get ugly.

If everyone is honest and realistic, issues can be identified, bids can be obtained, and work can be done. I think I am going into this with open eyes. I am twitchy about undisclosed problems and will bolt if I get uncomfortable.

Some of this is $$$ related. I cannot afford a perfect new boat, so I am forced to take on risk and hassle. Both shave the price. There appears to be some regional price differences in the country right now on certain boats as well. Again... risk, and potentially reward.

We will see!

I really do appreciate all the feedback, even if I disagree with some of it. Good ideas, good details, some experiences that are similar that have worked out well.

Plus, OldDan won't give me his boat. I tried.

OldDan1943 said:

Your money, I am not going to tell you how to spend. Just walk away NOW.

It costs a lot of your money to ship the broken boat across the country and then even more or your money to repair all that does not work.

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Oh. So you are going to give me your boat then? I thought we have been over this!

Greg Salish Cruiser said:

Oh. So you are going to give me your boat then? I thought we have been over this!

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Greg, hold your breath or bring about $375K
Ah, my generator works too.
Drop it off at American Tug and they can convert it to a "west coast boat" for even more of your money.

Honestly, you may not see the immediate need for a generator but, you will in the future.
Search out for a "west coast boat" and start from there.

Greg Salish Cruiser said:

Spectacularly helpful. I hadn't thought of the whole boat dehumidifier. Brilliant, also may be accomplished by running the A/C maybe? I was budgeting about 15K for my equipment upgrades and 13.5 for my shipping, which, as you say is somewhat covered by the market premium we pay for boats in this glorious cruising grounds. Some of it wouldn't be "covered", but I would have it just the way I wanted. My labor of course is free, and only a so-so deal at that. but it sounds like I am in the ballpark if I can buy the boat right.

Apparently Sure marine (about three miles from where I keep the boat) are some of the best in the business in the hydronic heat world. They sell an appropriately sized "kit" for DIY folks that runs about 5K. They said it runs about that much again to hire someone to do install. I figure I can do some of the work but will either hire out the final testing etc. or I will get it surveyed at completion to make sure it is compliant / I don't die. It looks like a pretty straightforward conversion to propane galley. I am figuring $1,500 for a range, $1,000 for tank, regulators, locker, solenoid, sniffer, alarm etc and maybe a bit for testing. I am aware of and undaunted by the risk and regulations around propane systems. You don't screw around - it needs to be perfect, redundantly tested, safeguarded and compliant. I did a natural gas install on my house. Paid to have the system pressure tested before I went live. They call me captain careful for a reason!

So I am at $7,500. Because it is DIY and a boat job at that, I am guessing it will be double my estimate for some reason not yet determined (Probably needing to hire some of it out when I get frustrated, bored, etc). Super scientific right? Years of experience at this. It will be that much for some reason. If I am wrong I will greedily gobble up the $$ for inverter, solar and batteries.

All vs $15K for a new genset. And your way replaces some pretty old bits of gear at the same time. (Galley, A/C, Domestic Hot water, Genset already gone)

All theoretical at this point. But.... Your story validates my idea that you end up with a sweetly configured boat for the PNW. It also lets me know I am in the ballpark with regard to $$.

Now the hard part. Acquire boat at price that works!

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I think i would wait for the right boat that is closer. Thereis a gang at rio vista , CA with a bunch of 32's . you should try to connect with them and see who is selling next. You could try SFBANTA.


Or why not buy the Manatee advertised here on TF? Its certainly a better deal and a whole lot more boat than any NT32 on the market.