Full follow-up levers for steering ?

I think I've asked here about what to do with hydraulic destroyer wheels that require lots of turns from lock to lock and make rapid rudder movements in tight quarters basically impossible.

I was watching Dougal describe MV Cassidy's use of a full follow-up lever to basically give a tiller at the helm for more nimble maneuvering with a single screw:

https://youtu.be/CgUTYqZHzwQ?t=1330

I of course looked up soe offerings and found a bunch at this site:

https://www.emi-marine.com/full-follow-up-levers

So I'm wondering how many others may be using this seemingly brilliant solution to the turn-turn-turn problem ?



-Sven

We have Comnav ffu steering at our flybrige and cockpit stations tied to the hydraulic steering via our Comnav autopilot. Works great. Destroyer wheel in the salon works when the autopilot is disengaged.

The Si-Tex SP38 appears to be a relabeled Comnav system and offers ffu remote steering via nmea 2000 which would simplfy installation if you already have an nmea 2000 network. A non follow up joystick is available , nmea 2000 as well.
Eric

I never heard of "follow up" before, but I have heard it called jog steering for sure. I have a Comnav too and the lever mimics the rudder.

You can also get a smaller wheel...

I have jog levers at the wing stations on the Portuguese bridge, where most of my close quarters maneuvering is done. Works great. The pilothouse and flybridge have conventional wheels, but also APs that allow rapid rudder movement. Most of my steering from there (and from the tower) is done with the AP, often just using the rudder control which allows rapid lock to lock steering, just like the jog levers. There is also a jog lever in the cockpit, but I have never had occasion to use it, since about the only driving I do there is to back down on fish, and for that centered rudders is best.

We have follow-up levers at the main helm and at both wing stations. I use those 100% of the time if we aren’t on autopilot. The only reason the wheel is still attached is for redundancy. I go months at a time without turning the wheel and only touch it to have something to lean on.

Xsbank here is a nice summary from Furuno that explains the difference between full follow up and non follow up steering
https://www.furunousa.com/-/media/s...rfacing_and_installation/nfu_and_fu_final.pdf

helm said:

Xsbank here is a nice summary from Furuno that explains the difference between full follow up and non follow up steering
https://www.furunousa.com/-/media/s...rfacing_and_installation/nfu_and_fu_final.pdf

Click to expand...

And a "jog lever" is non-follow up.


Here's a wheel-style FFU.

In some marinas and yacht clubs the tenders must be very nimble to get to the moored fleet.
Some have a large lever next to the helm seat that allows full L to R rudder deflection almost in an instant.

For a modest size cruiser with mechanical steering, it might be worth a try to toss the wheel, and make docking easier.

A second advantage could be the use of a tiller autopilot , inexpensive and accurate.

Just how many turns stop to stop are needed?


Mine is 5.5-6, have driven some boats with up to 8 which is getting boderline for me if the boat has a small rudder.

psneeld said:

Just how many turns stop to stop are needed?


Mine is 5.5-6, have driven some boats with up to 8 which is getting boderline for me if the boat has a small rudder.

Click to expand...

My last boat was 10 turns, and you couldn't just spin the wheel with a finger. FFU was essential. I'm not sure how many turns the current boat is. I haven't counted yet, but the steering is heavy enough that it doesn't really matter, and FFU is once again essential. I'm like Guy with a Boat - the steering wheel is third in line backup for steering, and a foot rest in daily use. I think as a boat gets bigger, FFU transitions from being a convenience to being a necessity.

I use a jog lever at the docking station. My Simrad AP 20 has a knob on the helm panel for steering and pushing the arrow buttons turns the rudder faster. Also have the AP 21 remote with the same features on a 20' cord. Hope it lasts through my ownership as most of the autopilot remotes have sacrificed features and size in an effort to be wireless.

Ted

I've got 5 turns lock to lock on my setup. I occasionally wish the steering were a bit quicker (3 or 4 turns), but that would likely make it too sensitive at higher speeds. Realistically, lower friction in the hydraulics would help, as you could spin the wheel faster.



When I add autopilot at some point, I've considered adding a jog lever (probably full follow-up). But I'll have to see if the autopilot pump can actually swing the rudders fast enough (compared to me using the wheel) to justify the significant additional cost.



Fortunately for me, I don't use the rudders much when docking or in really close quarters, as my twins have plenty of prop walk.

Jastram makes a whole compliment of steering solutions, top quality and were very helpful when I considered this option.

https://jastram.com/products/

IIRC, Kobelt does as well.

My next point is that not all hydraulically driven systems may be faster than a 2.5-3 turn from center to lock manually.


Just adding a jog lever may not improve handling without a little checking.

psneeld said:

My next point is that not all hydraulically driven systems may be faster than a 2.5-3 turn from center to lock manually.


Just adding a jog lever may not improve handling without a little checking.

Click to expand...

Agreed. But if you have fast enough manual steering, you probably won't be looking for an alternate solution anyway.

twistedtree said:

Agreed. But if you have fast enough manual steering, you probably won't be looking for an alternate solution anyway.

Click to expand...

Thus my posts to determine where the actual problem lies.


....and that not all solutions will rectify....or be significantly effective enough to justify the cost/engineering involved.

Nextgen steering.
Alexa, hard over to port.

My steering was 3 1/4 turns lock to lock. It was fast enough.

jleonard said:

My steering was 3 1/4 turns lock to lock. It was fast enough.

Click to expand...

I have always wondered about if any planning went into it as I have yet to have one lock to lock at an even number.

Many of the boats I've run have no wheel at all, just a follow up lever and a rudder indicator. Once you've adapted to it it's fairly easy to position the lever to produce the degrees of rudder you want.

On lock to lock...some are adjustable. Mine has a knob below the main wheel shaft to decrease or increase ratio. Of course I dare not touch it

Sealife said:

On lock to lock...some are adjustable. Mine has a knob below the main wheel shaft to decrease or increase ratio. Of course I dare not touch it

Click to expand...

Mine did also and I changed it to the least number of turns. I guess that would be the highest ratio?
I could still use one finger to turn the wheel even at WOT

follow up is the best way to drive when not on autopilot, and there is really no comparison if you can foot the bill for the equipment, and that would be the only downside I can think of with a properly built system. Honestly for hours steered by hand in the last 50 years they are more tested than even a wheel at this point and definitely a proven system. These boats don’t have autopilot at all and run up and down the rivers hand steering only thousands of miles at a time. It’s great seeing gentleman boaters finally getting interested in them. The second set of sticks are even more fun. Backing rudders (or flanking rudder depending who you are talking to)add a whole new layer of control over a boat.

Jog Steering vs Follow-Up

Let's clear up terms 'Jog' and 'Follow-up'.

Follow-up steering uses feedback from a rudder angle sensor to position the rudder exactly as the control handle is positioned. The handle or knob stays where you put it and the rudder follows to that position and stops. The lever has a center detent. This is a nice system to have for maneuvering, you know by feel where the rudder is, and you can move your hand to another thing without waiting for it to get there. FU steering capability is integrated into some autopilots, and can also be a stand-alone system - that's getting into commercial/large yacht equipment. The FU lever unit will be specific to the pilot.

Follow-up steering also refers to a power-assisted steering system using a master and slave ram arrangement.

Jog steering has a spring loaded lever, the rudder is driven as long as the lever is held. Most autopilots have a jog steering function, including limit stop via the rudder feedback unit. Some pilots will have connections for an external jog switch. Any kind of momentary switches are compatible with jog steering.

Jog steering can be added independent of the pilot, details differ depending on the drive type and are a bit too much to include here. Limit switches need to be installed and a selector switch so that pilot and jog can't be active at the same time.